New Sig P365 in .380. Why??

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Trey Veston, Apr 3, 2021.

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  1. Garandimal

    Garandimal member

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    Q. How many .380 rounds from a micro did it take the Good Sam to stop the threat?

    A. He didn't. (and should have been killed not doing it)

    Enjoy your cap-gun.

    Hope they run away for you, too.


    This is a stopping round...





    GR
     
  2. Paul7

    Paul7 Member

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    Ignore the 'experts' here who will tell you you're putting your life at risk by doing so, they're clueless.
     
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  3. Paul7

    Paul7 Member

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    Watch the video, they took off at the first shot.

    He didn't what?

    So man up and stand in front of my 'cap gun'.

    Funny, looks like the same result as my .380 video. Are you suggesting the average person carry a handgun of that dimension?
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
  4. Garandimal

    Garandimal member

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    They chose to, as loud noises frighten rodents.

    They could have also chosen to shoot him in the head.

    ...as he failed to stop the threat.


    You persist in pushing this ridiculous scenario.

    You pointing your cap-gun at me - would elevate your status to "Threat".

    Which would elicit:

    1. Movement on my part.
    2. Drawing my compact .45 ACP loaded w/ 230 gr. HST +P ammo.
    3. Yelling at you to drop your weapon and lay down on the floor.

    You then fire your cap-gun at me, and miss, because I'm moving - and your status is elevated to "Active Threat".

    Which would elicit:

    1. Return fire w/ 400 ft-lb .45 ACP 230 gr. HST +P (equivalent to std. pressure/service length pistol).

    Picture_011_1024.jpg

    2. At a rate of one additional round every additional 0.5 second.
    3. Into the threat (you).
    4. W/ this precision:

    Picture_013_1024.jpg
    5. Until the threat (you) was stopped.


    Enjoy your cap-gun.




    GR
     
  5. doubleh

    doubleh Member

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    I don't know a great deal about recoil except what is unpleasant. Being old and with a bum tendon in my hand plus arthritis and and a nerve problem in my wrist I can am just a bit recoil sensitive.. I have never shot one of the 365s in 380 but I own a 9 mm 365XL and I have to say I prefer shooting it over my wife's 380 Shield EZ. The Shield is somewhat easier to rack than the 365 and definately easier to load the mags but I prefer the 365 when it comes to felt recoil. How Sig accomplished this I have no idea but I like it.
     
  6. Paul7

    Paul7 Member

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    According to my post #44, in the majority of shootings the person being shot gives up without being incapacitated, so yes.

    He absolutely stopped the threat, they ran. You either didn't watch the video or are making things up.

    Why would you be afraid of a cap-gun?

    And you will get off more shots with a lighter recoiling handgun, that is simple physics. According to post #44 there isn't a whole lot of difference between SD outcomes with a .380 or .45 ACP anyway, it isn't like you typically have to shoot through body armor or car windshields.

    Big deal, that is easily doable accuracy for the average SD shooting distance. Similar hits in the vitals from a .380 will end the attack. Again, a .380 is similar in energy to a .38 Special, which cops, and some military personnel, carried for decades.

    You keep dodging my hypothetical offer for you to stand in front of my 'cap-gun'.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
  7. Paul7

    Paul7 Member

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    Interesting. It isn't really a carry pistol but for a true light recoiling full size 9mm try the Grand Power K100, the rotating barrel really softens the kick.
     
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  8. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    One of the claims most often heard in discussions about defensive shootings , goes something like "the average gunfight is over in N rounds", where N may be 3, 4, or 5. That is often used to justify the belief that a handgun containing only a few rounds would be all that a defender should need for primary carry.

    One problem averages is that there have been many incidents--perhaps half of the total--in which the average number, whatever it may be, would not have enabled success. That's why averages are averages.

    On would need to know more than the average.

    If we had the data--and we do not--we would have to consider the extreme values that have occurred, and the frequency distribution around the average.

    Even then, because of the small number of actual defensive shooting incidents, we would not be wise to place much confidence in the actual data.

    That has been posted before and discussed here at great length. The source has never been identified or validated.

    The demise of a person or the lack of it will likely not affect that. Threaten deadly force or use it, and one may well be in grave legal difficulty.

    That is among thr dumbest of the arguments that are occasionally voiced here.

    One can say nothing about what will result in the use of any firearm.

    The scarcity of actual date, in comparison with the number of variables involved, is such that how likely an out come may be cannot be determined using actual data.

    Scieitific data such as the forensic medical analysis used in the report Handgun Wounding Mechanics and Effectiveness, from the FBI Training Academy at Quantico, VA, when combined with extensive lab testing in surrogate test media, can help.

    They recommend the 9mm with certain ammunition. They do not as yet recommend any .380 rounds.

    The 9mm may fail, and the .380 may sometime succeed.

    The 9mm is a better bet.

    I prefer to have more margin.
     
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  9. Paul7

    Paul7 Member

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    I am perfectly comfortable carrying a G42 with a backup mag. How many rounds does your .45 hold?

    Especially if the actual data blows your theories.

    That is just crazy. You're really saying murder is not a more serious charge than brandishing a weapon, or wounding someone? Any lawyer would disagree.

    The dumbness is calling a .380 a cap gun.


    Great, but more casual shooters or those with hand or wrist impairments will shoot better with a smaller caliber. There is no reason to belittle them for their choice.
     
  10. Citadel99
    • Contributing Member

    Citadel99 Contributing Member

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    I assume this is exactly the kind of response that led to the creation of THR. It's just a disagreement over caliber, guys...no need to start inviting/threatening duels. Take a breath, walk away from the keyboard, come back tomorrow, find another thread on which you can provide some value, and post away.

    Mark
     
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  11. gc70

    gc70 Member

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    @Kleanbore makes a fair case that inadequate data, averages, and extremes make caliber discussions unproductive. But people who want to pursue some of the more and bigger arguments can get a 7.62x39 pistol with a 100-round drum magazine.
     
  12. Paul7

    Paul7 Member

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    That was purely a hypothetical comment, I apologize if it wasn't clear.
     
  13. gc70

    gc70 Member

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    People are not being belittled for their choice, they are being belittled to make other people feel better about their choice.
     
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  14. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Good I hope your feeling of comfort is never found to have been misplaced.

    I do not carry a .45.

    There are not enough actual data to substantiate any assumptions.

    Certainly, a lower level of felt recoil will be more conducive to practicing with the gun and to more effective shooting. If I had to carry a small automatic, I might sacrifice ballistic effectiveness for lower recoil. But a somewhat larger and heavier 9 with less felt recoil is my choice.

    We never want to belittle anyone, but we do want to led them to sources of sound advice.

    The .380 can work, and will in some instances--it's just that for those who can handle a 9 , the latter is more likely to serve them well.

    It seems that the shortfall of the .380 is due to lower velocity and lower mass, and not to bullet construction. Increasing either would increase recoil.
     
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  15. WheelGunMan

    WheelGunMan Member

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    I carry a .380 in my rotation and have never felt under gunned with it. It all boils down to carrying what you're comfortable with. Never feel compelled to justify your decision to anyone else.
     
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  16. Paul7

    Paul7 Member

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    I assumed you did since you brought it up in post #104.
     
  17. Garandimal

    Garandimal member

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    A .380 ACP Micro - is a cap-gun.


    A .380 ACP > sub-compact - is a marginally different story.

    The 9mm Micro, however, is minimum acceptable.



    GR
     
  18. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    Enough! Closed
    5 pages has descended to trivial drivel
    Some of you will be watched very closely by me. Troll at your own risk!
     
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