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New Study -- Guns Rile Men Up

Discussion in 'Legal' started by BenW, May 12, 2006.

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  1. BenW

    BenW Member

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    Interesting, since in my experience men I know who own guns tend to get much less "riled" in a given situation than those who don't. In fact my own experience has been that men I work with who are vehemently anti-gun are much more prone to fits of rage and / or throwing things over situations that I would just shrug off.

    And where do women fit into this oh so well grounded study?


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    http://townhall.com/opinion/columns/jonahgoldberg/2006/05/12/197117.html

    Of course guns rile men up

    By Jonah Goldberg

    May 12, 2006

    The New York Times, always keeping a weather eye for new evidence that guns are dangerous, reported this week that men who handle guns get more stirred up than men who handle children's board games.

    The study by psychologists at Knox College in Galesburg, Ill., enrolled 30 men and measured the testosterone levels in their saliva. Then the men were divided and given separate tasks. One group was asked to take apart and reassemble a large handgun and then write down instructions on how to put it together. The other group was asked to do the same with the game Mouse Trap.

    Afterward, those who handled the gun showed a jump in testosterone levels. Subjects were then asked to drink a cup of water with hot sauce in it and then prepare a similar drink for someone else. Those who handled the gun were more likely to add more hot sauce than those who didn't. This means, according to the paper, that "handling a gun stirs a hormonal reaction in men that primes them for aggression."

    Time magazine's Andrew Sullivan gleaned major news here: "A new front has just opened up in the Second Amendment debate. The usual NRA argument is that guns don't kill people; people kill people. I've always been almost-persuaded by this. The missing link is what actually owning or handling a gun does to male psychology. Does it ramp up testosterone all by itself and thereby make firing a gun more likely?"

    Sigh.

    One could spend all day raising serious questions about the merits of this study. First of all, have you ever tried to put Mouse Trap together? It's really hard, emasculating even, perhaps to the point of causing testosterone to plummet to tea-party-with-your-toddler levels. And why a game at all? Why not a motor or something equally benign but a bit more, you know, manly? And maybe adding extra hot sauce has less to do with aggression than it does with testosterone's effects on a desire for spicy food? Perhaps testosterone levels tend to rise in men invited to participate in a "taste study," only to be handed a big honkin' gat by a total stranger? And what about the ladies? Shall we venture to guess what hormonal fluctuations await women asked to dismantle guns or absurdly complex toys?

    But all of this misses the point. A more insidious danger than guns is the rush to medicalize behavior. Let's stipulate that handling a gun causes testosterone levels to rise. Let's also concede that elevated testosterone levels are associated with aggression. So what? Does this tell us anything important or new? Science is learning how to measure all sorts of really interesting things, from the effects of porn on the male brain to the effects of porn on the male brain. Whoops. I guess that answers what those effects are.

    Anyway, every day we hear about new studies "revealing" what should have been obvious to sentient beings for generations. A few recent headlines: "Fat kids become fat adults, says new study," "Housewives not as desperate as singles over 40, a new study finds," "Drowsiness, inattention play big role in car accidents, study finds." Every few months, newspapers breathlessly report that - surprise! - men and women are different, children are impressionable, and poisons are bad for you. What next? "Research shows wolverines don't like to be teased"? or "Running with scissors inadvisable, Mayo Clinic reports"?

    Folk wisdom has more scientific rigor than we give it credit for. Your grandmother didn't need a double-blind study to tell you that you should wash your hands after you go to the bathroom. And I don't need some paper to tell me that a man will get a small hormonal buzz from getting to play with a gun while the guy next to him is stuck with a lame board game.

    The important question is, "So what?" Prohibitionists were correct that alcohol affects the brain a heck of a lot more than handling a gun does. Do we need a new study to tell us that? And when it does, should we bring back Prohibition? So testosterone might jump when men tinker with guns. That no more means responsible men, including cops, can't handle the rush than it means irresponsible men have an excuse when they kill people. The testosterone made me do it! The "NRA argument," as Sullivan puts it, is unchanged.

    Long before science conclusively "proves" that human beings are sinful and prone to temptation, we already know exactly that. Identifying the hormones and genes that make this so should not change our views. Science may study humans as mere biological organisms. But civilization and our constitutional order demand that we look at people as something more: as citizens responsible for their own actions first, and as testosterone machines a distant second.

    Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online. A fantastic podcast with Jonah is now available for free from the Ashbrook Center.
     
  2. xd9fan

    xd9fan Member

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    or maybe handling a gun......is like handling a woman.....both bring out the MAN in you!:D
     
  3. CAnnoneer

    CAnnoneer Member

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    Hehehehe, sorry, knee-jerk reaction against leftists. I saw him speak on C-SPAN and distinctly remember a nigh-uncontrollable desire to puke.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2006
  4. sm

    sm member

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    Humm

    Studies and Statistics can be manipulated / data gleaned can be skewed to favor a position.

    I dunno, heart rates go up putting up shelving, a child's playground set, or changing vacuum cleaner bags. "Part A to Part B unless your model has a "-C" then duct tape Part A to part H...".

    How about helping a kid do math, or assisting a kid having to read a slanted anti-RKBA/Hunting book for a book report?

    To me, Internet Forums reveal quite a bit. Seems the civil discussions , data presented with documentations and cites and all show more "cool heads" than Internet forums against RKBA, Hunting, and similar.

    Easiest way to build up one's self esteem - is to tear down another person's.
     
  5. Jubei

    Jubei Member

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    And in further studies, Knox College has also determined that men get more excited by seeing a naked woman, than they do when they see a naked wombat.

    This study concludes that naked wombats, are unappealing. In future studies, Knox College plans to compare apples, to oranges.

    Jubei
     
  6. Yowza

    Yowza Member

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    They probably had the men disassemble/reassemble a Ruger Mark II. I know that tends to get me riled up!

    Next time they should try it with a Sig;)

    Rick
     
  7. MS .45

    MS .45 Member

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    I don't understand how putting more hot sauce in the water is considered to be agressive behavior. To me, that seems more of a joking or humurous action.
     
  8. mordechaianiliewicz

    mordechaianiliewicz Member

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    or maybe handling a gun......is like handling a woman.....both bring out the MAN in you!

    +1

    In studies of men who watched porn, there were of course jumps in testoterone levels. Does that indicate increased violent tendencies? Not for the majority of us.

    Look folks, when men first become men, first have androgens running crazy in our systems, we don't know what to do. Of course we're about 13 at the time. The same is true of estrogen when girls turn into women. Once you're in your later teens, the vast majority of us are able to handle the changes of our bodies.

    Another attack at common sense. "Oh, well this affects your body in a way that we believe is strange or perhaps needs to be medicated. Don't control yourself, the government, and anti-depressants will take care of you."

    Oh well.... Don't get me started.
     
  9. BigO01

    BigO01 Member

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    Well it's a good thing they didn't study men who were putting together some of the Prefabbed computer desks/furniture with unmarked boards and missing hardware .
    If they had they realy would have seen some "riled up" men and women too I imagine .
     
  10. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Guns rile me up: When they're pointed at me.

    :), Art
     
  11. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    All I learned from the study is that I want to find a company that makes gun-shaped bottles. If I sell hot sauce in them, I'll make a mint!

    ...and maybe it explains why some of the guys in my trap league make such hot chili for potluck dinners!
     
  12. MK11

    MK11 Member

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    Jonah Goldberg is a "leftist puke" because he doesn't like this study either? Or is having his byline at the end confusing people used to being spoonfed by Rush and Sean Hannity?
     
  13. Nightfall

    Nightfall Member

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    Perhaps the men got those horrible aggressive feelin's because they had to disassemble and then reassemble a machine with little parts, about which they didn't know anything?
     
  14. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    BTW since when has the presence of testosterone been a bad thing?

    Is it a crime to be male now?
     
  15. Just_a_dude_with_a_gun

    Just_a_dude_with_a_gun Member

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    Guns rile men up and make them more agressive? Fantastic.

    I'd better get to the range.
     
  16. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Member

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    Wow...if guns rile people up, imagine how dangerous the gun range is? Or a gunshow? Frightening indeed.. :rolleyes:



    I've found firearms, particularly carrying them in public - to be very humbling.
     
  17. Kingcreek

    Kingcreek Member

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    Hmmm...
    Lets see... I handled BB guns alot, then real guns some, then I went thru puberty (at the normal age). If I had never been exposed to guns, would I have had a delayed puberty? no puberty? could that explain some of these folks' problem?
    at almost 50 years of age, I enjoy very good health and vitality. Do I owe this to my father's wisdom in allowing me exposure to guns as a youngster?

    "Doctor Ballistic, I think I might have low testosterone."
    "Take 2 handguns, and call me in the morning."
     
  18. Nehemiah Scudder

    Nehemiah Scudder Member

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    Is there a "rush" to shooting? Dunno.
     
  19. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    Reminds me of a story a friend of mine tells....


     
  20. Don Gwinn

    Don Gwinn Moderator Emeritus

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    We used to have a saying at Monmouth College, home of the Fighting Scots.

    KNUCK FOX.

    Not really relevant, I'm just saying. I hate those sissies.

    Galesburg, by the way, is home of Simpson's Ltd., a big old place with everything from antique Turkish arquebus muskets to FAL's. At one time they had a pair of horse pistols owned by Andrew Jackson, George Washington, and the Marquis de Lafayette.
     
  21. hksw

    hksw Member

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    This just in:

    Researchers have found that testosterone levels of heterosexual men sky rocket when asked to cut out photos out of Hustler magazines and paste them on a piece of paper as compared to men aksed to dice up onions and placing them in a frying pan.
     
  22. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    If guns rile men, why is it, then, that there is so much smiling, politeness and courtesy at gun shows? I've had gun show tables since back in the early 1970s and rarely saw "riled up" men. Probably more "riled up" women, grumpy because the money was spent on what the guy wanted instead of what she wanted.

    :D, Art
     
  23. meef

    meef Member

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    Just think of all the older guys who should be spending their Viagra money on a new gun. Much better investment with apparently much the same results.

    And a few hours later, your new gun won't be out of your system. Heck, you can use it over and over. Whatta deal!

    :D
     
  24. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Bravo sierra. Oceans of it.

    Testosterone levels on the tongue? It's monkey gland time all over again.
     
  25. distra

    distra Member

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    Gwinn, Watch it. I'm Siwash from '91 (note not a 'Prairie Fire') :rolleyes:
     
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