New to loading .38sp / .357

[ajandrs]

Hey all, I currently load 9mm and .223 but won a new stainless Ruger GP100 6" in .357mag at my county sportsmens banquet last weekend. I have very little wheel gun experience but when I picked the gun up from the shop yesterday it was an instantaneous love affair. I can't really explain it, but I imagine many of you understand what I'm talking about. Needless to say I can't wait to shoot this thing, but the off the shelf ammo is pricey so it only makes sense to add the caliber to my bench.

My plan is to load only .357 cases to eliminate mix ups or confusion between that and .38 cases, plus then i only have to worry about adding the one caliber instead of 2. That also does away with the carbon ring left with .38 cases in the cylinder. Even with that said, I think I'm going to get the LEE carbide 4 die .38 set even though i don't plan on loading .38 right now.

For now my only need is range fodder, simple plinking ammo to get familiar with the gun and have some fun, and probably at only .38sp / .38 +P power ... for now. Down the road I will look at adding a load for hunting deer and possibly even coyotes but the hunting will likely be done with a lever action that I plan on picking up now that I have the GP100.

On hand I have enough HP-38 and small pistol primers to load until both arms fall off so my plan is to start load development with those components. I also have some power pistol and bullseye I could play with if they are good for .357 ... I haven't even looked into those yet given my large supply of HP-38.

So given what I want to do with the cartridge right now, I'm wondering what would be a good bullet to choose to get me started in the .357 world? I've never shot lead and don't like the thought of scrubbing lead of out a barrel so I'd like to stick with plated / FMJ. Looking at Midway, they have both Rainier 125gr and 158gr plated hollow points at about $.10 a piece so that's where I'm looking at starting, along with some starline brass for about $.17 a piece. I was thinking about getting a couple hundred of each bullet weight to play with, but would I be better off with one or the other? 200 of each bullet plus a couple hundred cases can get me going for about $85 and like I said above, I seriously can't wait to get some range time with this gun!!

Thanks for any advice you can provide, again, with only needing some basic plinking rounds I'm trying to keep this pretty simple for now and go with the components I already have. Once I get into the caliber some more i'll look at messing with some different components to find the sweet spot for this particular gun.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I would buy 1k new pieces of brass directly from Starline. It is much cheaper per piece compared to the price if you buy 100 at a time.

I am a fan of Missouri Bullet Company coated bullets. You will not have to scrub out any lead, plus they are cheaper than plated or jacketed. I really like their 140 gr Zinger.

As far as jacketed goes, I buy 125 Montana Gold by the case of 3750. The price works out to a fraction of a cent under 10 cents each.

 

[goldpelican]

I'm sort of on the same path - new to wheelguns that don't use a percussion cap!

Bought the 4 die 38/357 Lee set - but went with 38 brass from Starline. I want to learn to be proficient first with 38 - I too thought about "downloading" 357 cases to 38 style loads, but read a lot of warnings about excess pressure - just the same as loading below minimum powder recommendations in any case. Too little powder means really high pressures. Not safe.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Goldpelican,

You read a warning not to use .38 data in a .357 case?

 

[CCWdownrangeP2]

I concur on buying the Starline Brass, been exceptional for me. Definitely do not overlook plated or coated bullets. Rocky Mt Reloading, Missouri Bullet Company, Acme and Berry's are all great suppliers and you could save a couple cents per bullet, allowing much more shooting! RMR and MBC have a discount also for THR members. enjoy the GP100, it's a great revolver.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I'm sort of on the same path - new to wheelguns that don't use a percussion cap!

Bought the 4 die 38/357 Lee set - but went with 38 brass from Starline. I want to learn to be proficient first with 38 - I too thought about "downloading" 357 cases to 38 style loads, but read a lot of warnings about excess pressure - just the same as loading below minimum powder recommendations in any case. Too little powder means really high pressures. Not safe.

It's the opposite of too much pressure if anything. Using .38 data in a .357 case is lower pressure than in a 38 case because of the extra space in the larger .357 case. What can happen if you go too low with any load is stick a bullet in the barrel. Bad news if you don't catch it and shoot another round behind the stuck bullet.

However it depends on 38 the powder and load level ( Start or Max load) used in the 357 case as to whether you will even have a chance of sticking one. Use a 38+p load in a .357 case and you have some safe soft shooting plinking rounds. Or start with max 38 data in the 357 case. Any light sounds and best to check the barrel.

 

[Reefinmike]

I'll third the new starline 357 suggestion. Most once fired brass sellers ask more for used mixed brass than new starline. It cant hurt using only 357 brass but I have never seen this carbon ring that poeple speak of when using 38 brass in a 357 revolver. My typical range session is 200-300 38's followed by a hundred or so 357s and I clean the gun after each use... Ive never seen any hint of a "ring" of carbon fouling in my revolver after a good 15k rounds of both.

 

[JohnhenrySTL]

.38s are the easiest round I've loaded. I shoot 90 percent suters choice 158 grain semi wad cutter through my GP 100. I seat them 1.485 off the top of my head, over 3.5 grains of bullseye for close to but under 800 fps. I love this load for small game and planking. It bust about like a factory load.

I've never experienced the carbon ring issue. I clean my gun, but sometimes I go almost 500 rounds of skipping. Although one time I had a tiny piece of lead come in between my star and cylinder I though I bent my frame at first, the action got real sticky, but it was one tiny piece lead.

I wouldn't worry much about separating the .357s. You would catch it long before you tried to seat a bullet and they are obviously longer.

I'm not a huge fan of hott .38s, because I have a .357. But I do have a tame .357 load that works for me. It's 231 and standard primers, very mellow too. It's 5 grains of 231 and Winchester small standard primer. It chroneographed within ten feet of both sides of 1000 fps.

H110 is lots of fun when you're ready for magnum. I use a Lee die for both loads. It took me a while to realize I had to back the expander die way farther off than the directions indicated. I was getting this nasty bulge at the bottom of the case.

Have fun.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm sort of on the same path - new to wheelguns that don't use a percussion cap!

Bought the 4 die 38/357 Lee set - but went with 38 brass from Starline. I want to learn to be proficient first with 38 - I too thought about "downloading" 357 cases to 38 style loads, but read a lot of warnings about excess pressure - just the same as loading below minimum powder recommendations in any case. Too little powder means really high pressures. Not safe.

It is perfectly safe to load .38 Special data in a .357 Magnum case. If course since the .357 case is longer it has more case volume so the pressures will be lower than in a .38 Special case. I suggest you start with the middle .38 Special charge and you will be fine.

HP-38/W231 is a great powder for the. 38 Special and it can be used for the .357 Magnum but that powder will not deliver the highest velocities.

If you want real magnum loads you will need to use a slower powder. There are many suitable magnum powders out there now including:
W296/H110, AA#9, Enforcer, 2400, Power Pro 300-MP and a few others.

I use mostly three powders for all my handgun loading. W231/HP-38 is my fast powder, HS-6 is my middle speed powder and my slow handgun powder is W296/H110.

 

[Steve C]

Too little powder means really high pressures. Not safe.

Too little powder means insufficient pressure resulting in a squib and bullet stuck in the barrel. A subsequent round fired with out removing the barrel obstruction first can result in a KB or a damaged and bulged barrel.

With the cost of new brass running at 16 cents a pc from Starline to 25 cents at some retail stores it doesn't make sense to buy new brass to load. You can buy loaded jacketed soft point .357 mag factory ammo for under $20 a box on line you might as well get loaded ammo and then reload the brass after shooting it. With the factory ammo you also get a box and tray to use with your reloads.

hand loaded in new brass
case .16
primer .03
powder .06
Jacketed Bullet .18

.43 per round / $21.50 per box

http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/pistol-ammo-sale/357-magnum-ammo

 

[AZAndy]

My target load for .357, which I shot a hundred of just yesterday, is Starline case, standard small pistol primer, 158 grain coated SWC from Missouri Bullets, and 5.5 grains Unique. It's slightly over the high border of .38+P, but shootable in a snubnose without suffering greatly. A 6" GP100 would laugh at it. It's certainly not a standard-power .357, but I can't shoot those from my S&W 640. For my 3" SP-101 or lever-action, I take the powder up to 6 grains, which is still pretty light by .357 standards. I don't have chronograph data for either of these, but will soon.

I used to shoot .38 cases from .357, but gave up on it due to the extra cleaning needed.

 

[Walkalong]

Buy some .357 brass. New is great, but range brass is fine (That's what I shoot.)

Buy a three die RCBS set for .38 Spl/.357 Mag. If you want to crimp separately (No need in some applications, but some prefer it and it's a little bit easier to set up the dies.), then get a separate crimp only die.

If you want to go cheaper (Save 10 to 15 bucks), do the same thing with Lee dies. (A three die .38 Spl/.357 Mag set and separate crimp only die if desired) Forget the FCD. If you want to use plated bullet for light plinkers, a taper crimp die is good for a light crimp to remove the bell.

Pick a coated or plated 158 Gr SWC by price. You can load the coated from mild to full power. I like them, but I also like the X-Treme 158 Gr SWC a lot. The Missouri Bullet 140 Gr Zinger has been suggested and I imagine it's a great choice, I just haven't tried it yet. Your choices are 12 or 18 BHN in most cases (SNS says 16/17) and 16/17 or 18 will work with anything up to at least 1250 FPS, which is what I shoot the coated 158 Gr SWCs at using 2400. For .38 Spl velocities 12 is all you need, but since they are coated 18 will likely work. For very light/light loads in .357 cases I have been using the X-Treme 158 gr SWC.

Pick out a nice .38 Spl or .357 load from the manuals or online Hodgdon load center using W-231. You can load .357 brass with anything from most starting jacketed .38 Spl data to full .357 data. Starting .38 Spl lead data can sometimes be too light with plated, and even with coated I would be careful with it. Just start in midrange .38 Spl data and you'll be fine.


A 125 Gr bullet seated and crimped in one step in .38 Spl.

X-Treme 158 Gr SWC with a taper crimp done in a second step after seating.

A 215 Gr SWC seated and crimped in the same step in .44 Mag.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-crimp-in-two-stages.623417/#post-7699828

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/universal-clays-and-357.511309/#post-6354182

 

[cfullgraf]

Lots of good information posted so far so I do not have much that I can add.

My normal range fodder for 357 Magnum is loaded at the top end of the 38 Special data in a 357 Magnum case usually with a 158-160 grain semi-wadcutter. If you are worried about leading, get coated bullets or plated bullets. Plated bullets need to be taper crimped or have the roll crimp set to only remove the case mouth belling.

RCBS and Redding (I think) sell 38 Special/357 Magnum die sets that come with a spacer. The spacer lets you set up the expander and seating dies for 38 Special cases then with the spacer, they will work fine for the longer 357 Magnum case. The sizer die uses the same setting for both cartridges.

(Or set the dies up for 357 Magnum using the spacer, then remove the spacer for 38 Special).

Something to consider.

 

[goldpelican]

Goldpelican,

You read a warning not to use .38 data in a .357 case?

Yes, but after reading this post and doing a lot more research, that appears to be poorly informed advice. I'd much rather load the 357 cases and avoid the dirty chambers from the shorter case - that was my first instinct, but it looks like I've read some bad advice elsewhere.

 

[Walkalong]

just the same as loading below minimum powder recommendations in any case. Too little powder means really high pressures. Not safe.

I'm not really sure where you got this, or I am reading it wrong. True, we don't want to download too much, that is correct, but it isn't a pressure issue.

If you are speaking about S.E.E. it is about rifle cases with large capacity using slow powders possibly blowing up if downloaded. And some have suggested it can happen in other applications.

But no lab has ever succeeded in making it happen, and even if it actually can happen, it isn't going to be a problem with .357 Mag brass and any sane load using applicable powders.

Google S.E.E. or secondary explosion effect and there is a mind boggling amount of info on it, both pro and con.

I'd much rather load the 357 cases and avoid the dirty chambers from the shorter case

Me too, and my midrange .357 loads (Low .357 but over .38 Spl data loads) will never be able to be accidentally used in a .38 Spl gun.

 

[Shaq]

If you load hard cast lead & keep velocities at 38 Special levels, you won't have to worry about scrubbing lead out of your barrel. Barrel leading usually happens with softer swaged bullets.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Too little powder means insufficient pressure resulting in a squib and bullet stuck in the barrel. A subsequent round fired with out removing the barrel obstruction first can result in a KB or a damaged and bulged barrel.

With the cost of new brass running at 16 cents a pc from Starline to 25 cents at some retail stores it doesn't make sense to buy new brass to load. You can buy loaded jacketed soft point .357 mag factory ammo for under $20 a box on line you might as well get loaded ammo and then reload the brass after shooting it. With the factory ammo you also get a box and tray to use with your reloads.

hand loaded in new brass
case .16
primer .03
powder .06
Jacketed Bullet .18

.43 per round / $21.50 per box

http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/pistol-ammo-sale/357-magnum-ammo

All that may be true except for the price of the brass you quoted. Since the cost of brass is a one time charge and you can reload it many times so the cost has to be amortized over many loads. I have some .357 brass that has over 20 loads on it already. That would change your numbers to less than a penny for brass per load. The round cost comes down to 28¢ each or $14/box. That is without arguing your bullet cost which is also high IMO.

If toy can find it 20 boxes of factory ammo will cost you ~$400 by your prices but 1000 new .357 cases will cost you $135.50 direct from Starline.

 

[Sunray]

A warning not to use .38 data in a .357 case is nonsense. Been loading 148 grain WC's with 2.7 of Bullseye for 40 years with no fuss.
If you're loading non-target loads in both .38 and .357, I'd suggest you use a different type of bullet for easy ID at a glance. You could plate 'em different colours though. Ain't technology grand.

 

[mdi]

Nuttin' I can add to the above posts, so just a thought. It's a good idea to get to know your revolver, measure the cylinder throats and slug the barrel. Probably all newer manufactured revolvers will have cylinder throats larger in diameter than the barrel's groove diameter, but measuring is good knowledge. If/when you shoot lead bullets use bullets the same diameter as the cylinder throats for the least leading and best accuracy. (My 3, .44 Mag. revolvers have throats that measure .431" so all the lead bullets I use are sized .431").

I started reloading 38s in '69 and got my first 357 in '71 so I had waaaay more 38 brass than 357. I used a lot of 38 brass in my 357 and never had a problem with the dreaded carbon ring, and I cleaned my guns every time I use them. Most of my load were with Bullseye, W231 and Unique and after a hundred rounds or more, there was some fouling in the cylinder, but not enough to impeded 357 chambering (I usually finished up a session with full magnum loads). I have on occasion taken load data from the 38 Special listing in my manual and used 357 Magnum brass. The velocities were lower than listed because of the larger case, but made for some light shooting...

 

[Rule3]

Here is a novel thought or idea.

As you say you have lots of HP38 then just use Hodgdons data for the 357 mag in 357 brass and buy some coated bullets from Missouri Bullets.
You can load some nice target loads or even a bit stout with HP 38. Unless you are hunting there is no need for full house mag loads, the target will not know the difference.

Brass, buy direct from Starline or gads buy some once fired from somewhere

Couldn't be easier, Lots of other fluff in these posts that are just confusing the issue.

 

[ajandrs]

Wow, thank you all for the great replies. After looking at their website, I'm ordering 500 cases direct from starline. For the bullets I didn't even think about checking out coated bullets so thanks for those suggestions. After looking around I think I'm going to order 500 coated 158gr SWC from MBC. Anyone know the discount code they provide for this site? I use RMR for all my 9mm plinking bullets and have used their coupon but never for MBC.

My Lyman manual lists starting at 3.6gr of HP-38 for .38sp and 4.0gr as max but doesn't list the powder for .357mag loads. Hodgdon website lists starting at 3.4gr and 5.0gr as the max for .357 loads, but it doesn't differentiate the type of bullet, only weight. I'm thinking about starting at 4.0 and work up some but 4.0 seems like it'd be a pretty light load. Does that sound reasonable for simple plinking loads with the 158gr SWC?

 

[Rule3]

Hodgdon states 158 gr cast LSWC Which is what the MBC bullet is. So that data is good to go

Another good thing about that bullet is if you want load some real magnums get some 2400 powder and use the same bullet,

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

 

[Walkalong]

I'm thinking about starting at 4.0 and work up some but 4.0 seems like it'd be a pretty light load. Does that sound reasonable for simple plinking loads with the 158gr SWC?

4.4 Grs W-231 under an X-Treme 158 gr SWC gave me an average 729 FPS from a 6" Trooper Mk III with poor ES numbers. I don't see where I tried it with lead in .357 cases. I know I haven't with coated.

4.2 Grs under the same bullet in .38 Spl brass gave me an average 710 FPS from a 4" Model 10.

4.0 grs is going to be pretty light. Maybe start at 4.5.

 

[ajandrs]

4.0 grs is going to be pretty light. Maybe start at 4.5.

That's kind of what I was thinking, 4.5gr seems to make a little more sense.

 

[Blue68f100]

As long as you keep the velocity above 650 fps you will not have any problems. Drop below that and you run the chance of sticking the bullet in longer barrels. My mouse fart loads only give me 700 fps. Keep in mind that a jacketed bullet has more friction than plain lead or even the HiTek coatings. If your wanting light loads, go with the HiTek coating. If you plan to shoot full house 357 Mag loads either Jacketed or the coated bullet will be best for a novice. Shooting plan lead requires the bullet to be sized right for that gun to prevent leading.