New twist on the Tueller drill!

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Cougar & Such

[Homer Simpson voice]If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat![/Homer Simpson voice]

PP:
You're right in that more folks die from bee stings than from large predators, here in the USA.

Thing is, some of those large predators are increasing their numbers to the point that there are beginning to be serious problems with man/beast encounters and the predators' food sources.

Most folks who keep something from their hunt do so as a reminder of that time and to admire the critter. My mom still has the tail feathers from the first pheasant I shot, artfully aranged in a vase like a bouquet of flowers. She was happy I was sucessful, but even happier that she was able to get her hands on some beautiful materials. Oh, and that pheasant was mighty tasty!
 
I do not have anything against hunting. I just think that when you cross the line into "trophy hunting" that bothers me. Even then it is not the hunting itself but the vulgar display of testosterone that most of these guys think they are showing. You go to these outdoorsman shows and all these guys stand around showing their pics of their stuffed animals like they are trying to show who has the biggest penis. It is like they think they are somehow a man because they can point a weapon and pull the trigger. Doesn't help that most of the ones I have had experience with were short, pudgy, non-athletic guys with big mouths. That kind of taints my perspective. As for cougars, like I stated in my post, I have no idea if they are decining or not. if they are I would be against hunting them. Either way i am not fond of the type of person that stuffs them and keeps them in their living room. it always comes across as a testimate to their personal insecurities. That is just my opinion though. It is also a little creepy. Just like when the lady down the street with too many dogs has the nes that die stuffed and put on the couch.

Lisa- "Dad, those all come from the same animal"
Homer- "Yes Lisa, one wonderful, magical animal" (said with extreme sarcasm)
 
Even then it is not the hunting itself but the vulgar display of testosterone that most of these guys think they are showing.
You're reading an awful lot into this without first-hand knowledge of that which you decry. You have done nothing but PRESUME to identify what motivates these hunters based upon your limited outside observation of them. Not to mince words, but that's just not fair to either them nor you. Then you try to back up your opinions of hunters and their values with some limited 'science' in regard to the conservation of natural resources, only to confront the fact that your perspective of *that* topic is too limited to be of much use.

Let's cut to the chase. It offends you that some people do what they do (be it trophy hunting or any other behavior or activity). To that I have two comments:

1) If you're going to be offended by something, it pays to actually research the topic and becomes as well-versed as you can in the issues. Ground your objections in some form of reality.

2) Remember that you haven't the right to impose your value structure upon other adults. You *do* have the right to assemble a set of values FOR YOU and to live your life by those values. But others get to do the same thing. And going thru life throwing stones at folks who's values do not line up with yours is a fruitless exercise.
 
Either way i am not fond of the type of person that stuffs them and keeps them in their living room. it always comes across as a testimate to their personal insecurities.


I am not fond of the type of person that has no tokens or reminders of things they have done or accomplished in life. It always comes across as a testement to their lack of participation and understanding of the feeling that comes with accomplishing some goal whether it's hunting, bowling, fishing or chess.
 
Cats can jump! My boy Jake can stand about a foot away from the fridge and jump to the top (approx 5'9") in one leap, or can launch from the back of my chair to the couch about 10' away easily. He weights about 12-13 lbs. and is about 11" at the shoulder.

The 7-10 yards allowed for a person in teh Tueller drill should probably at least be tripled for a big dog or mountain lion. By the time you see 'em coming (esp. with the cat), you've got a problem -
The original Tueller drill was based on an arbitrary time of 1.5 seconds, which was the average time officers in his department needed to draw a service weapon from a duty holster and fire at a target in front of them. He (Lt. Tueller) then conducted some experiments and found that an individual armed with a knife could cover a distance of 21 feet from a standing start in that 1.5 seconds. That's where the magic "21-foot rule" comes from.

Lt. (probably Captain by now) Tueller developed this drill a number of years ago. LEO trainers tell me that the time required to draw from the newer, more secure retention holsters is longer than 1.5 seconds, and thus even for a human adversary, the 21-foot "rule" is no longer valid. If the average time to draw is up to 2.5 seconds, the distance is probably at least doubled. That's for uniformed officers carrying in a duty holster.

If the adversary is a hungry mountain lion as opposed to an average street punk, I think all bets are off. Some CCW holders who shoot in competition can draw in less than 2.5 seconds, but many CCW holders don't shoot in competition and probably can't draw, aim and fire in less than 3 to 5 seconds. And I'd guess that there are hiker folks who carry a pistol in a fanny pack or backpack and think that makes them "safe," even though it might take anywhere from 10 seconds to a minute to shrug off a backpack, unzip it, rummage around to find the gun, and get it out and aimed. 50 feet ain't hardly enough under such circumstances. 50 yards might be getting closer to it.
 
was it the Lewis and Clark expedition that, then pres. Jefferson, sent west and told them to eat some everything and report on it. in their diary, they told that mountain lion was the tastiest. dont make me want any - but.............

some trappers of a couple centuries ago were reputed to eat skunk and enjoy it. personaly, i rank skunk right in there with possum. i know, some hungry day, i will be far from the store.

my Saints kill and eat EVERYTHING that ventures near the house, but leave dead possums in the driveway to show me they are on the job. if a dog wont eat it, i surely am not

if hungry, i would definately do a couger in and take a page from LnC. in case of really hungry, it might be polecat or possum.

for those who dont hunt with faster friends, go ahead. you shoot him in the leg.
 
rbernie said:
You're reading an awful lot into this without first-hand knowledge of that which you decry
Actually I do have first hand knowledge of these type of people. Every time I go on an expedition there are always a couple of these guys. And every time I go to a sportsman's show the place is crawling with them. Like I said, usually the loudest ones are the chubby little weasle-ish guys that have nothing to be proud of other than the fact they can kill an animal with a gun. I have nothing against necessary hunting, I even have no problem with the sporting side of it if it is not endangering a species, it is these guys with which my problem lies. And I just think the big stuffed trophies are gaudy. And it seems to me they are always posed like they were attacking. Why not pose them the way they were when they were shot. Standing in the distance without knowing you are even there.
 
If its legal and I see a mountain lion, I'd probably kill it and mount it. Why? Because I want to. I hunt coyotes all of the time. They rarely bother me, but its great fun hunting them. I did kill one with my SKS as it was attacking my dog, though.

I also shoot feral cats whenever I have a chance. According to Judd Cooney, they kill of more critters each year that any other animal around. Have no idea if this is true, but I can't stand the things.

About lions in WV, I'm positive that they're there. I haven't seen them, but when I was younger I spent alot of time with my uncle, who lived in West Virginia. I would go live with him for a couple weeks during the summer. It was basically like summer camp only with fishing, hunting, shooting and camping. Multiple times while in the woods we either heard their screams or saw their tracks and once foun a dead doe with tracks about it(I assume the mountain lion was munching on it, but don't know that it killed it).
 
There are big cats in WV. I lived there most of the first 17 yrs of my life and I can tell you they have been there for years. Very small numbers but the tracks were there and where there are tracks....I lived on a wildlife reserve near where the "mothman prophecies" was set.
Of course I also believe in the "Mothman".:D
 
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