Newbie seeking advice: .357 mag

[WrongHanded]

May I suggest that BEFORE you get any equipment or components, that you read the 2 book's reloading sections several times.

I won't be getting the press for a couple months. I actually scanned them both (some sections in more detail than others) to get general concepts and layout of each into my head. Now I'm rereading in depth, but not necessarily long arm specific sections, or about casting bullets (as that's not practical, currently).

But yes, learning the theory and the hazards before being the practice.

 

[RealGun]

Depending on the press you get, yes. If you get a turret, then spare turret heads make swapping calibers quite easy. Same with a progressive. If you use a single stage, depending on the brand you can use quick change bushings. I use the later in all my presses and it works great.



Usually they are more feature rich, marked and repeatable adjustments on a bullet seater for instance. Longevity is not something I've ever seen anyone have an issue with regarding dies. As far as warranty, pretty much all manufactures have excellent warranties and customer service. For your first set of .357 magnum dies, I'd recommend Lee Precision 4 die carbide set(SKU: 90964). The carbide ring in the sizing die means you don't have to mess with lubing the case at all, and the factory crimp die (even if you don't crimp) will ensure the cases diameter is within SAAMI specs. MSRP is $60, but I'm sure you can find it cheaper if you do some looking around.

-Jenrick

I think we should note that Lee is one of the few, maybe Redding, that can supply a set without a wasted expander die, assuming you let the powder drop do the expansion. Thus, the seating and crimping can be separate. If you load lead bullets, that all goes out the window, setting the FCD aside or modifying it not to post size, but I'm just sayin'.

 

[41 Mag]

The Lee die sets are an economical way to get into things. You do not need the Factory Crimp die that I have found for any real reason. The taper crimp or roll crimp that comes in the basic sets work fine and I load a BUNCH of ammo with them.

If for any reason you find that the O-ring is an issue simply turn the nut over and lock it down proper with a wrench. Not a real issue with them that I have found.

I probably have a dozen sets or so in various calibers and like mentioned they are affordable enough to pick up an extra set or two for different loads.

Granted you might want to splurge on down the road to get something better, but I have a hard time showing any differences in accuracy or quality of ammo when using my Lee dies against RCBS or Hornady.

 

[WrongHanded]

Okay! Thank you all for the input on die brands. I'll go with Lee to get started. If a set does not come with a dedicated crimp die (I though got I noticed that on their website, for certain calibers), should I invest in one? I under that the seating die can perform double duty, but seems more difficult to set up correctly.

Now, there was mention of lead bullets. I've looked around a little and they seem very cheap, but there also seem to be some issue with lubrication, barrel leading, lead poisoning, and possibly some other issue I'm not aware of. Would it be best to start with fmj, and other jacketed bullets first, to keep things simple? If I do start with jacketed bullets, for target loads, do I need bullets with a cannelure?

 

[RealGun]

Okay! Thank you all for the input on die brands. I'll go with Lee to get started. If a set does not come with a dedicated crimp die (I though got I noticed that on their website, for certain calibers), should I invest in one? I under that the seating die can perform double duty, but seems more difficult to set up correctly.

Now, there was mention of lead bullets. I've looked around a little and they seem very cheap, but there also seem to be some issue with lubrication, barrel leading, lead poisoning, and possibly some other issue I'm not aware of. Would it be best to start with fmj, and other jacketed bullets first, to keep things simple? If I do start with jacketed bullets, for target loads, do I need bullets with a cannelure?

I use RCBS Cowboy dies for lead 38/357 (.358). I use the Lees for jacketed/plated (.357). There are some things to know about your gun and some modifications typically necessary to do a proper job of using lead bullets. I would advise to just get a box of XTPs to use with your Lee dies, or any other dies that expect the bullet diameter to be .357. I have Lyman dies for some other cartridges and find them to be versatile, especially the M-die expander. I have to say though, that any rounds with lead that don't drop neatly in my gauge go through crimp again and then the Lee FCD with the stem removed. I think mashing things a bit is better than pulling and scrapping deformed bullets. Sometimes when getting a good crimp, there can be some slight mushrooming around the bullet that the FCD cleans up nicely. They seem to shoot fine, and I can't conclude that any slight barrel/forcing cone leading is a result of some rounds that have been tinkered with.

 

[Jenrick]

If you're loading to true .357 mag velocities you have to be careful on the hardness of the lead, might need a gas check etc. I'd personally just use a normal jacketed round while i learned, then venture into looking at lead. Once you get comfortable loading lead bullets, then you can look at casting them.

-Jenrick

 

[Walkalong]

I under that the seating die can perform double duty, but seems more difficult to set up correctly.

Not difficult, just not as easy as separate dies for seating and crimping.

A coated 158 gr SWC (pick your supplier) is relatively inexpensive, will work for light plinking loads as well as full power .357 loads, and might be a good one to start with. Naturally jacketed is easy as well, just pricier.

Plain lead works, but there are more things to worry with and coated will be easier to start.

there can be some slight mushrooming around the bullet that the FCD cleans up nicely.

The "mushrooming" doesn't hurt anything and the FCD can size bullets down lessening neck tension as the springy brass case rebounds where the soft bullet doesn't. If your reloads chamber and shoot well using the FCD to make them look better doesn't make sense to me. If the crimp gives you mushrooming fix the crimp adjustment.

 

[WrongHanded]

A coated 158 gr SWC (pick your supplier) is relatively inexpensive, will work for light plinking loads as well as full power .357 loads, and might be a good one to start with. Naturally jacketed is easy as well, just pricier.

Plain lead works, but there are more things to worry with and coated will be easier to start.

Ah, I think that explains the various colored projectiles I saw recently in a reloading department. I got the impression they were some sort of polymer, from what the guy was saying, but that seemed like it couldn't be right especially given the grain weights listed and the metallic finish. But it makes sense now. So perhaps I will just see about picking some up from that place when I get going.

 

[CJ8281]

A word about Lee products. Some of Lee's products are made of plastic and die cast metal, were others make similar products out of iron or steel. Some of Lee's products can have issues, some of their powder measures don't work so well with certain fine grain powders. Lee tries to make a quality product and offer it inexpensively. That being said, some of their products are less than stellar, other fantastic. For this reason, I would not recommend starting out with a Lee kit.

I started out with mostly RCBS. An old RS2, a single stage press, a 5-0-5 powder scale and a Uniflow Powder measure. I still have my first hand priming tool a Lee Auto-Prime. The lid is a bit warped from age, you have to be a bit careful as sometimes a primer might get tipped sideways but it still works. A few years ago I purchased an RCBS hand priming tool but I still mostly use the Lee. As time has gone by, more and more Lee products have found their way on to my bench.

I recently purchased a Lee Classic Turret press. I must say that I am impressed. Like many others, I run things in batches. I decap all my brass before I throw them in my tumbler (Lee universal decapping die), I then resize and bell the brass and then put it away. I don't prime until I know what load that I want to build, different primers for different powders. I recently been working on a batch of 1000 9mm. All the brass has been cleaned, decapped, sized and belled. I primed all 1000 cases in less than an hour. I have been using my Lee Classic turret to powder, seat and crimp. I have found that I can powder, seat and crimp 200 rounds in 45 minutes.

Scales. I personally don't like digital scales. I have played with one of RCBS's and Hornady's digital scales and I found them both to be inconsistent. I will agree with Dan on the 5-0-5 scale, one adjustment for 10s, one for 1s and one for .1s. Easy to see at a glance what you are set to. The 5-0-2 scale has two adjustments one in 5 grain increments and the other up to 5 grains in .1 grain increments. A little more math to use. I do not care for the 10-10 or the 5-10 scales as I feel that the thumb screw (adjusts up to 10 grains by .1 grains) is harder to read and must be viewed straight on or error may occur. Ohaus also made very similar scales for other companies like Lyman and Dillon. The Dillon Eliminator scale is similar to the RCBS 5-0-5 scale, the Lyman M5 is similar to the 5-0-2. The scale offered with the RCBS Rockchucker kit has a chinese made M500 which is basically a 5-0-2 scale.

Bullets: Plated bullets are less expensive than jacket bullets. There are many different brands. Berry's Bullets generally don't come with a cannelure. Highborn and TSP bullets do (in 357) Plain plated bullets generally work better with a taper crimp than a roll crimp.

 

[RealGun]

Not difficult, just not as easy as separate dies for seating and crimping.

A coated 158 gr SWC (pick your supplier) is relatively inexpensive, will work for light plinking loads as well as full power .357 loads, and might be a good one to start with. Naturally jacketed is easy as well, just pricier.

Plain lead works, but there are more things to worry with and coated will be easier to start.

The "mushrooming" doesn't hurt anything and the FCD can size bullets down lessening neck tension as the springy brass case rebounds where the soft bullet doesn't. If your reloads chamber and shoot well using the FCD to make them look better doesn't make sense to me. If the crimp gives you mushrooming fix the crimp adjustment.

I knew that beat down was coming, but the FCD is sometimes the only thing that works.

 

[Walkalong]

Not a beat down, simply a different opinion. It's not personal, don't take it as such. We simply disagree on the FCD.

 

[Varminterror]

A few thoughts I neglected before - since you're shooting 357mag, get carbide dies, period. It's SO NICE to be able to avoid sizing lube and cleaning the brass again, and the price difference is minimal.

Since the infinite debate regarding the FCD has come up - I do use the FCD, modified though it may be. For some of my heavier recoiling rounds like 454C, 480R, 445SM, 475L, 460S&W, and 500 S&W, I seat the bullet in one step to avoid deformation of the bullet by applying a heavy crimp, then I use a second crimp die to apply the crimp. For the rounds I own an FCD, I use it.

Knock the carbide sizing ring out of the bottom of the die so you can use it ONLY for its major purpose - to apply crimp. Then you can eliminate any of the issues @Walkalong has noted above, but still gain the advantage of having separate seating and crimping steps.

 

[Walkalong]

I agree that with very heavy crimps doing it in a second step is a good way to go.

 

[forestswin]

Walkalong....sorry to drift here some...but what does a very heavy crimp look like?
I'm used to putting a roll crimp on until the rolled case is snug to the crimp groove...no more than that
And I test it with my fingernail....... not getting snagged on the case

Never mind
Found this thread
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/how-much-crimp-lee-fcd-guidance-sought.469815/

 

[Walkalong]

Well, my medium and heavy in that thread is OK to do in one step as long as the bullet has a good deep cannelure or crimp groove. The folks that crimp real heavy for the big boomers often times crimp much harder.

This is about as heavy as I go or need. A 240 Gr @ 1350ish FPS with good neck tension and this roll crimp stay put just fine.

 

[WrongHanded]

Well I thought I wouldn't be buying any equipment for a couple months, but things changed so now I've started ordering some things. Just not everything.

But here's another question for you guys: How likely is it I'm going to need a case trimmer for .357 and .44? I was searching through Google and found some contradicting opinions.

Also, is it important to clean primer pockets every time? It seems as though the classic turret is designed to decap as part of the process, which makes me think it's not terribly important to do every time. And that the brass can be tumbled with the old primer in.

 

[bullseye308]

Trimming pistol brass is not necessary. Same with cleaning primer pockets. I deprime/resize, then tumble. That's as clean as my pockets get.

 

[RealGun]

Trimming pistol brass is not necessary. Same with cleaning primer pockets. I deprime/resize, then tumble. That's as clean as my pockets get.

But you need some of the same equipment if you re going to debur and chamfer new brass (which should be done). If you want good crimps on revolver rounds you need to measure every case and keep them separated by tight ranges. You also segregate head stamps. That is the only way to know if the die adjustment applies well to every round.

 

[Walkalong]

How likely is it I'm going to need a case trimmer for .357 and .44? I was searching through Google and found some contradicting opinions.

As you will here as well. Some of us never trim any pistol brass, some of us (Like me) trim all revolver brass, but no auto brass, and a few intrepid souls trim all pistol brass.

It's not hyper critical, and you can get away with not trimming .357 and .44, but it won't be as consistent as if you do. You don't absolutely need to deburr and chamfer, but it can can an issue here and there. A chamfer/deburr tool is cheap.

Keep an eye out for a sale on a decent trimmer, and get one when you can.

If you buy a batch of new Starline they will be consistent enough in length it's not an issue. Other brands may be good there as well, but it has been so long since I have bought any new brass in those calibers i simply don't know.

As RealGun posted, measuring and sorting brass into batches that are all close in length is one way to get around trimming.

is it important to clean primer pockets every time?

I don't clean pistol primer pockets, the crud only builds up so much, and I'm just to lazy to take the trouble. Some people clean every single one.

 

[earplug]

You can buy a after market kit that turns a Dillon 650 into a single stage press. Handy for case prep and fixing issues.
I'd buy a five stage or higher progressive press. It took me about fifty minutes to crank out 100 rounds on a single stage.
A big single stage press like a RockChucker can be a torture tool when loading pistol rounds.

 

[forestswin]

Well I thought I wouldn't be buying any equipment for a couple months, but things changed so now I've started ordering some things. Just not everything.

But here's another question for you guys: How likely is it I'm going to need a case trimmer for .357 and .44? I was searching through Google and found some contradicting opinions.

Also, is it important to clean primer pockets every time? It seems as though the classic turret is designed to decap as part of the process, which makes me think it's not terribly important to do every time. And that the brass can be tumbled with the old primer in.

Instead of buying a trimmer at this point, I'd suggest you get a decent caliper and set it to 1.290 inches and lock it
Run 50 expanded cases through the caliper, making sure none of your expanded cases exceed 1.29"
Then set it to 1.280" and try to run them through the caliper.....they shouldn't go....making sure none are shorter than 1.28" I'm assuming you're going to use your own fired cases
While you're doing this, inspect the cases for cracks, splits or other damage

If any case exceeds 1.29", put it on the side, for later......those would need to be trimmed
If that pile starts to mount.....it's time for a trimmer

By doing this you're not guessing, it's you that determined your cases are within spec's

Primer pocket cleaning?
Inspect the pocket...are there excessive flakes? That might hinder seating a primer?
If so, scrape it out. Some of my 357 cases do have enough crud to warrant cleaning, some don't.

Progressives and even the Lee Turret are designed to take a cleaned case from the tumbler to a finished round.
You will need experience to determine what case prep should be done worth interrupting the process.

I do not interrupt the process for 9mm or light loaded 38 special, but I reload all my 357's by batch processing on a single stage

I see I'm walking a little bit on walkalongs post.....well! too late

 

[Varminterror]

[H]ere's another question for you guys: How likely is it I'm going to need a case trimmer for .357 and .44? I was searching through Google and found some contradicting opinions.

I trim mine for 357 & 44. I don't tend to trim pistol brass, but I do length sort my pistol brass as it comes out of the dryer, if it grows over my maximum tolerance, I put it in one bucket. Once said bucket gets full enough to warrant attention, I trim that bunch to bring it back into spec.

For blasting ammo, it's not really necessary, but it doesn't hurt. For precision shooting ammo, it does make a difference. I've even experimented with neck turning 44mag brass, and do so for all of my .357/44 B&D brass (and annealing, of course), to help get the most consistent bullet release possible.

[Is] it important to clean primer pockets every time? It seems as though the classic turret is designed to decap as part of the process, which makes me think it's not terribly important to do every time. And that the brass can be tumbled with the old primer in.

A lot of us don't use the turret presses as they were designed. I use a separate single stage press with a Lee Universal Decapping die to deprime all of my brass, then Ultrasonic clean. I have the decapping stem removed from a lot of my dies, so it only does the sizing in the press. I personally don't like to clean with primers in place, and don't like to size dirty brass.

Combining your two questions - if you're going to trim your brass, then you really won't be using the turret press for sizing, priming, charging, seating, and crimping in one uninterrupted cycle. You should trim AFTER you size, so you'll decap and size in the press, take the brass out to tumble and trim - then you'll come back to the press to prime, charge, seat, and crimp. OR - you could use a hand priming tool and charge on the bench... Or you could leave everything slack and decap and size dirty, prime, charge, seat, and crimp all without cleaning, trimming, chamfering, or deburring... Personally, I try to make very consistent ammunition, so even though I do most of my loading on a Lee Turret press, I NEVER put a dirty case in, pull 4 times, and remove a loaded round - my process is very different.

 

[WrongHanded]

Thanks for the help everyone! It's been hugely educational.

I got my Lee Classic Turret press this morning and have it installed. I have some of the other stuff. More is ordered or shipping.

I still need a tumbler, but can get that locally. I'm considering a Lyman but can't remember the model number. It's not very big. I also need bullets, primers and powder, but I'll get to that in a minute.

So other than the press, I have the following:

RCBS Uniflow powder measurer
Lee Safety Prime(s)
Two reloading trays
A few cartridge boxes for each caliber
A second turret for faster change over
The Lyman 50th edition manual (reading)
The ABC's of Reloading (rereading)
A set of digital calibers
Lee .357 dies (just ordered)
Lee .44 dies (just ordered)
Lyman deburring/primer pocket tool (just ordered)
RCBS 505 scales (on the way)
RCBS kinetic bullet puller
Note/load data book (for my records)

What tools and equipment am I missing?

Components:

So I have more questions. I picked up some .357 diameter 158 gr poly coated cast bullets because they were pretty cheap. But I'm guessing this is not the place to start. Hornady XTPs we're already mentioned as a good starting point. Does anyone disagree? I could also get a bulk box of HSM 125gr plated bullets, locally. Or is there something else that would be better for my first run?

I'm going to reuse some once fired brass that I have, to get going, unless that seems like a really bad idea to anyone. They're currently in batches of 50 in the original boxes, and so separated by head stamp (I will verify when I inspect and clean them). But past using that, I think Starline was suggested up thread as being a good and consistent option. If I can't find them (I couldn't see them on midway earlier in .357), is there another brand to consider?

Powder. Alliant 2400 seems to be present in most if not all the loading chart for .357 mag and .44 mag in the Lyman manual. Is this a good powder to being with, or should I look at something else? Unique is not present for all grain weights, but seems to be an option for 125gr and 158gr in .357, and 200gr and 240gr in .44 mag. I've also seen it on the shelf in more than one store, but may only have noticed 2400 in one place.

I'm dead set on more rereading and learning the equipment, process and all sub-processes before I get started. And will of course be starting with the minimum powder weight and working up slowly. It's pretty exciting though!

 

[Walkalong]

I picked up some .357 diameter 158 gr poly coated cast bullets because they were pretty cheap. But I'm guessing this is not the place to start.

Why not. They are easy peasy.

Save those XTPs.

Powder. Alliant 2400 seems to be present in most if not all the loading chart for .357 mag and .44 mag in the Lyman manual. Is this a good powder to being with, or should I look at something else?

Oh yea, good stuff.

Work up from minimum, use at your own risk.

 

[WrongHanded]

Thanks Walkalong!

So I forgot to ask about primers. CCI, Winchester, and Federal all seem available. Not all the load recipes call for magnum primers, but should I use them anyway? There seems to be little or no price difference from what I recall.