Next logical step up from a 308

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Question... I read where the OP said they don't reload... did they mention a reason or something preventing it?

I ask because if they have a .243, .270, and .308, the next logical step would be to start loading for them. Handloading will allow wringing the full performance out of those rifles, and will go a huge way towards making a magnum more affordable in the long run.

If I had to get a magnum without reloading, it would be 7mm simply because it's the only magnum I know w/ ammo under $1/rd. at wal*mart.

As a reloader, I would look at some of the .338 or bigger, because if you are going to go crazy, go crazy with style.
 
SFAIK, it's hard to rig a decent magnum rifle for under a grand or so. That'll buy a pretty good bit of .270 and/or .308 ammo...
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Art

I got my 338 Win Mag setup for $399 (Weatherby Vanguard) + about $150 (Scope, base and rings + Bipod + Sling)

I would call it more than decent....it doesn't have shiny wood but I do not really care...neither my targets...

Maybe you can spend another $100-150 for even better glass (I cannot complain at all with mine)

You can actually get a very good magnum setup for less than a grand....:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
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"...heard that hunting guides will look down on you if you show up in camp with a 308..." No they won't. They'll look down on a guy who shows up with a magnum he can't shoot because the excessive felt recoil and cost of ammo kept him from practicing with it though.
There's no game in North America a good .308" 165 grain hunting bullet won't kill.
 
There's no game in North America that a .22LR won't kill with the right shot placement.

So what?:D
 
Wyohome only told part of the story when he compared the 06 and the 308 with 150 gr bullets. At distances past 200 yds I think a 180 gr bullet for elk is much closer to ideal.


Ballistics Results

Cartridge Information
Index Number Cartridge Type Weight (grs.) Bullet Style Primer No. Ballistic Coefficient
R308W3 Remington® Express® 180 Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 0.383
R30065 Remington® Express® 180 Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 0.383
R300W2 Remington® Express® 180 Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 M 0.438


Velocity (ft/sec)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 2620 2393 2178 1974 1782 1604
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 2700 2469 2250 2042 1846 1663
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 2960 2715 2482 2262 2052 1856


Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 2743 2288 1896 1557 1269 1028
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 2913 2436 2023 1666 1362 1105
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 3501 2945 2463 2044 1683 1375


Short-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 50 100 150 200 250 300
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 0.0 zero -1.5 -4.6 -9.5 -16.5
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 0.0 zero -1.3 -4.2 -8.8 -15.4
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 0.1 0.6 zero -1.9 -5.1 -9.8


Long-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 100 150 200 250 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 2.3 2.0 zero -3.8 -9.7 -28.3 -57.8
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 2.1 1.8 zero -3.5 -9.0 -26.3 -54.0
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 2.7 3.1 2.2 zero -3.7 -15.9 -35.6

These tables don't lie, less than 4" difference between the 308 and 06 but
20" give or take difference with the 300WM that is greater with the 300Weatherby.
I really have no quarrel with anyone if the distances are 300yds and have many guns that I hunt with that fall into that catagory but don't tell me there is no place for a magnum especially when you are talking elk in their own backyard.
A 25-06 will take an antelope easily at a 1/4 mile and have energy to spare but don't take that same 100 or 120 gr bullet and wound an elk with it at that distance.
If you need to have only one gun and you want to hunt everything then you need to look at something that will really do it all or lower your expectations.
 
Elk are still well within the capabilities of a .308 or even the .270 (as the antlers in my basement of a 6x6 that fell dead without taking a step will attest). There are really only three N.A. big game animals I would feel I ought to have more than a .308. Moose, Bison, and big bears (Polar and Grizz). If I was shooting big bears I would want a .338 or 375 H&H.

My main hunting rifle is a 30'06. I read some post suggesting you get that and I had to laugh, why bother if you have a .308?

If I just wanted some more range and more power for Elk then perhaps a 300 win mag would be a good choice.

My last thought however is this. Without doing a fair amount of shooting a person is unlikely to have the skills to take advantage of the extra range capabilities. This means that if the recoil is sever enough that you don't like to shoot it then one would likely be better off with a lighter recoiling rifle with which they are more proficient.

In short if you want to shoot elk your current rifle will do it, but that is no reason to stop you from getting a new rifle if that is what you really want.
 
+ about $150 (Scope, base and rings + Bipod + Sling)
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I'm not trying to be offensive or start anything but buying low end optics is a false economy in my book.
 
I'd say the next logical step up would be to wait until you know for sure what you'll use it for. For Alaska the 338 WM is probably a good idea. For the lower 48 your .308 can't be beat by much, but a 7mm Mag would maybe give you something.
 
My last thought however is this. Without doing a fair amount of shooting a person is unlikely to have the skills to take advantage of the extra range capabilities. This means that if the recoil is sever enough that you don't like to shoot it then one would likely be better off with a lighter recoiling rifle with which they are more proficient.
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That's me. I've got a .30-06, my hand loads are about 5-7% under max. I'm not good with recoil, so the magnums don't have much appeal to me. I shoot a bit, but really, 300 yards is a long way off. There's wind and your target tends to move. The longer the distance the more things can go wrong.
 
Girodin

Who told you they perform low end??

No problem, offense not taken....my bullets get to the black circle in the target just fine...
 
No one told me. I own various scoped rifles and have shot even more and looked through even more still. I will affirmative assert that the cheap scopes are not only on the low end of the price scale they are on the low end of the performance and quality scale as well. One need only look through the nicer scopes and the economy models to tell the difference. If you are 16 an old chevy will seem like a perfectly suitable car once you start driving Mercedes you are unlikely to want to go back. Clarity is perhaps the most easily recognized difference in cheap scopes and nice ones. Clarity of the optic is a major factor in performance, particularly as the range is extended. The higher end optics are also, as a general rule, better built. This is an important factor in hard use such as hunting. Do you want to be on your big hunting trip and have your optic fail?

I don't know how you use your rifle thus I do not know the performance you expect. With that said, the fact that something is capable of adequate performance does not mean it is the best choice or best value. It also doesn't mean it is the best value. I have a cheap Tasco on a rifle that I have shot hundreds of varmints with. I still recognize it is not as good as some of the higher end scopes that I have and I will in time replace it. Its performance is adequate in that I have still managed to shoot a bunch of animals but it could be better and I recognize its limitations. The fact that I will buy the nice scope anyways because ultimately I am unsatisfied with the cheap one means I paid more than I needed to in order to get the scope I should have bought in the first place.

A nice scope will out last me. On items I will only buy once my theory is buy the best that one can afford. The quality of optics really does make a difference and it is not the place to scrimp. Given the offerings I would take a lower end rifle and spend the extra bucks on a high end scope if perfomance was my chief concern. That is the whole reason people are willing to pay more for them. Cheap scopes are cheap for a reason.
 
Girodin

For my needs, m,y Centerpoints are perfectly adequate (range time mainly)
Clarity is good.
Other people with the same scope model hunt very successfully and another guy compete (not professionaly) and he hold his own.

There is a difference between cheap and inexpensive.

And I know what a low quality scope is...I saw a Tasco with a crooked and faded reticle line out of the box...and I saw a brand new BSA self destructing on a 22.....scopes thast do not return to zero, with falling turrets knobs, etc...
And I did look through very expensive scopes also.

Inexpensive doesn't necessarily means low quality..it depends on the brand.
 
wyhome - there is over 4 inches difference in elevation at 300y. +1.8 inches to -3.2 inches is a 5 inch difference in elevation. It is less than 4 inches from poa. At 400y, you are -8.2 inches. You are nowhere near 4 inches at 500Y variation. You loose that at 300y.
 
Take a look at post 56. The 308 & 30-06 really are almost alike.
 
Take a look at post 56. The 308 & 30-06 really are almost alike.
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Sure, if you buy your ammo at Wal-Mart. Hell, I wouldn't expect the cheapest factory .308 ammo to hit 2550 fps.

If you look at reloading data, you're looking at more like:

2600 for a .308 with a 180 grain bullet
2750 for a .30-06
2950 for a .300 Win Mag
3100 for a .300 Wby Mag

I'm assuming that none of them will shoot best with maxed-out loads, so I'm subtracting .5 grains of powder, or so, from the max, and calling it the nearest 50 fps. That's probably fairly realistic.

The jump from a .308 to a .30-06 is almost as much as from a .30-06 to a .300 WinMag. You can argue all you want about overkill and whether the recoil, price and rifle size/weight of a .300 Wby is worth it, but each of these four .30 cartridges DOES represent a step up on the performance ladder.
 
Your preaching to the choir AB. I am a big fan of find what you need and then step it up a notch, I don't care if it a truck, boat, hammer, or a gun the time will come when you want or need to push it.
My point in the Rem tables are simple, not everyone reloads and yes a great number of folks will by at Walmart. I also can say that in my experience Rem CorLoct is the best off the shelf ammo for the money on the market. It also give an apples to apples comparison of safe reliable ammo that will work in any modern weapon.
Reloading data can be cherry picked from dozens of sources and while Rem can spin their own data to some degree their website is at least a consistant reference.
 
The fact that Remington downloads .30-06 so they don't get sued for blowing up ancient rifles has no bearing whatsoever on the capabilities of a cartridge.

Sure, not everyone handloads, but you don't have to buy Core-Lokt from Wal-Mart, either. And the numbers aren't cherry-picked at all, nor are they hot loads. You can find hotter, if you want to push it. These are conservative, published loads.

If the OP doesn't handload, THAT is the next logical step up, NOT a new rifle.:)

Serious hunters do tend to load their own. Serious goofballs get .338 Win Mags for whitetail, and buy the cheapest ammo they can find. And I've heard serious elk hunters laugh and brag that they took an elk with a Core-Lokt bullet, as if that was as big a deal as a 500 yard shot on a running bull.

If the next logical step is to "get serious", then handloading is that step. It will also help make any future rifle decisions easier. I don't think you really get to know rifle cartridges until you load a few.

That's the bigger picture.:)
 
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So the Core Lokt bullets are junk??
I reload for around 40 different calibers so I'm hardly a goofball but if I lost what I had and needed to hunt, plain old Rem.CL's would not bother me in the least.
I try to stay away from the boutiqe bullets and am quite happy with Sierra, Nosler, and Hornady and when comparing with recovered bullets they perform fine.
 
Never seriously fooled with Core-Lokts myself. Don't have an opinion. There are those who wouldn't be happy if that's all they could shoot, that's all I know.

You have an opinion, based on your experience. That gets to the heart of my point. That experience is worth more than the latest hot Magnum.:) And that kind of experience is only gained through handloading, whatever the conclusions might be.

That's why I think that handloading, not buying a magnum, is the next logical step from a .308.

(Sierra, Nosler and Hornady are great bullet makers. I don't see a reason to go any farther off the beaten path, either.)
 
Armedbear

As per Hodgdon manual, a 180 gr. 30-06 can be pushed up to 2800 fps (one load reads 2799 to be precise)
Handloaders can hit 2900 and even more still within pressure limits.

Hornady sells the 180 gr. SP Light Magnum load for the 30-06 which reaches 2900 fps (we did some chrono testing at the range) and they actually claim lower pressure than a full spec 30-06 load.

300 Win Mag territory indeed.


I absolutely agree that a serious hunter or target shooter should get into handloading even before thinking about a new rifle/cartridge combo.

If the 30-06 were to be designed today it would have the Magnum label attached to it, no doubts about it...:)
 
OP - I must admit, I have been somewhat misleading about my .30-06. I said I can fire it all day, which I can. What I failed to mention is that it weighs over 9lbs. It is a Garand, and probably the lightest kicking -06 out there. I also only shoot surplus ammo out of it. That said, I will shoot through several boxes of 12 ga slugs out of a 7.5 lb shotgun and can do that comfortably... so I still think the -06 would be better than the magnum for you. I just wanted you to realize that not all -06's kick as hard as others. Remington makes a nice semi-auto -06 this is gentle enough on the shoulder.
 
Our paths seem to diverge on the reloading, while I believe in loading to ring out the best balance of velocity and accuracy for a given caliber I have long ago quit loading more than one load for a single gun and don't subscribe to the one gun does it all philosophy.
I certainly don't doubt that one gun can do most jobs only that there is a sweet spot for each gun/caliber/load and if possible I like to match that.

Saturno, it is common to see a person highlight a certain load/round when comparing to a larger caliber but they will rarely post the same hot load potential for the caliber they are comparing against.
I am a fan of the 280 and know it can be loaded to near 7RM but when you maximize the potential of the 7RM the difference reappears. Handloading will raise the potential of all calibers.
 
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while I believe in loading to ring out the best balance of velocity and accuracy for a given caliber I have long ago quit loading more than one load for a single gun
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I agree, for all sorts of reasons.

That's why I haven't tried Core-Lokts, for example. Other bullets have worked great, so I haven't had a reason to deviate.

I just think that, by the time you've worked up even one good load that balances accuracy and velocity, you've learned more about rifles than you could in several years of buying ammo at Wal-Mart and blasting away with several guns. At least that's been true for me.:)
 
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