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NFA Paperwork Question :^)

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Still 2 Many Choices!?, Sep 18, 2008.

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  1. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Member

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    Sporting. Makes the Nazi Gun La...er, the '68 Gun Control Act feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
    It's tempting to put something patriotic or funny on those but considering they are what stands between you and a fun new toy it's probably better to just go with the tried and true phrases than do something to make yours stand out.
    On the other hand, I wonder if the folks at ATF actually read/care what's in those boxes. Like if for Reason or Intention you simply put "Yes", they'd want clarification like they have done with barrel lengths.
     
  2. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    If you have to go to your CLEO for signoff it might very well be a bad idea. The CLEO can refuse to sign your paperwork for any reason at all.

    Seeing smart mouthed comments on the form might be enough for them to tell you "Sorry, we're not signing those today".

    They are perfectly free to take the character of the applicant into consideration. They might simply decide that you are not someone they want having an NFA item. At that point you'd be done. Why risk it?
     
  3. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    How bout?
    "Because I am Mike Dillon, and I can own whatever I damn well please if you want to keep getting GAU-2B/A's from Dillon Aero!"

    rcmodel
     
  4. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Member

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    ^ He probably has his own express lane at the ATF
     
  5. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    How can it possibly be "smarting off" to tell the absolute truth, that you want the rifle for your militia membership?
     
  6. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    I'm not debating with you what is or isn't true or any of that, I am telling you why it's potentially a bad idea to put that stuff on the form.

    Anything the CLEO sees as a problem is all he needs to refuse to sign your form. You seem to misunderstand; the CLEO is under no obligation to sign. He can refuse for any reason, why give him one?

    You may feel it's "truth", he may feel it's not. Guess who wins.

    If you're going the trust route it's a different story but if you have to ask someone to sign that form you need to make it appear as harmless as possible.
     
  7. crushbup

    crushbup Member

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    When did THR become 75% fudd? Saying that "All Lawful Purposes" is better than OP's suggestion is like saying that your wood-stocked deer rifle is better than my black plastic "assault rifle."
    I would venture so far as to say acting in that manner is definitely not high road.

    OP, just about anything will clear that requirement. I for one like your idea of saying "The Second Amendment" (One "m," not 2).
     
  8. MGshaggy

    MGshaggy Member

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    Yep, thats me - don't post much over there anymore though...

    As Tex said, for the most part the CLEO signoff is the thing you need to worry about. Since their approval is completely discretionary they can refuse to sign for any reason (or no reason at all). If you give a reason that sets off alarms there, you could find yourself without a CLEO signoff. BATFE, OTOH, can only decline approval for your purpose if they have a good reason - like your stated purpose hints at illegality or that you may not be completely sane (zombie invasion, perhaps).
     
  9. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    It's not "Fudd" it's a maturity factor. This is an official government form. You don't screw around with official forms. Also, like others have mentioned, if you're going the LEO route, do you really want the LEO to question your maturity level? I guess if you two were buddies, but then again, if the form were ever pulled in court, they'd probably question the LEO as well saying, "you approved somebody who wanted to own a machinegun to kill zombies?"

    You have to understand that there are many who would not share your humor nor understand common phrases in our culture. How many non-gun owners know about the whole "zombie" jokes? Imagine if someone like the AP got a hold of your story... you'd be the guy known 'round the world as the, "Crazy American who bought a machinegun to kill zombies". It'd be funny now, but not in a couple years.

    And again, anything "militia" is just bad. Most people think Branch Davidians or Aryan Something or Others when they see those terms. You'd be in the paper and all people would see is: "militia member... machinegun... shot suspect... awaiting trial..."

    Finally, there's probably many a judge and jury out there who would NOT snicker at your choice of wording and could possibly use it to increase your sentencing or issue a totally different verdict than you would otherwise get.
     
  10. uneasy_rider

    uneasy_rider Member

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    I am not sure I understand why that is illegal. If someone really believes a zombie rising is imminent, then it would seem reasonable to me to prepare for it.
     
  11. rfurtkamp

    rfurtkamp Member

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    LOL, the irony here is that these forms are used for black plastic assault rifles and their ilk, not granddad's Winchester.

    I don't deal with CLEO signoff, and I still won't use stupid things on my forms. One of the factors that I'm considering with every one I fill out (and I have a folderful now) is future ramifications.

    I won't use 'sporting' because by their inherent nature and status in law, NFA guns are *not* sporting.

    I won't use 'zombies' because I want to do the maximum to preserve my rights as far as ownership, possession, and use down the road are concerned.

    It's not Fudd to tell people to not be retards on official forms - if you want activism, write your Congresspeople. Protest in public, write bad songs. Put flowers in your hair.

    "Zombies" "Because God told me to" and similar things may get your form approved. It may not. When push comes to shove, do you want to have your toy pushed to the bottom of the list for alphabet soup approval? When a year's passed and nothing's been done, do you want to call your senator's office and ask where your zombie rifle approval is?

    Don't get me wrong, I find the whole NFA thing to be onerous, stupid, and repugnant - but it's a matter of practical acceptance. Every approved weapon I get done and bring out in public and let people play with gets someone else to do the same. With enough critical mass, things can change.

    "The second amendment", "zombies", and "Because I'm me, dammit" won't help there either.
     
  12. rfurtkamp

    rfurtkamp Member

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    Would seem to be to me as well - and it's not out of line with the varied tradition of religious/apocalpytic beliefs in the United States.

    Unwise, ill-conceived, and with potential repercussions for doing so, yes. Illegal, no. That's how rights are - they may be ugly, unpleasant, and exercised stupidly, but doesn't mean that these things are 'illegal.'
     
  13. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

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    9 dictionary results for: sport
    Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
    sport /spɔrt, spoʊrt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[spawrt, spohrt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
    –noun
    1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
    2. a particular form of this, esp. in the out of doors.
    3. diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime.
    4. jest; fun; mirth; pleasantry: What he said in sport was taken seriously.
    5. mockery; ridicule; derision: They made sport of him.
    6. an object of derision; laughingstock.
    7. something treated lightly or tossed about like a plaything.
    8. something or someone subject to the whims or vicissitudes of fate, circumstances, etc.
    9. a sportsman.
    10. Informal. a person who behaves in a sportsmanlike, fair, or admirable manner; an accommodating person: He was a sport and took his defeat well.
    11. Informal. a person who is interested in sports as an occasion for gambling; gambler.
    12. Informal. a flashy person; one who wears showy clothes, affects smart manners, pursues pleasurable pastimes, or the like; a bon vivant.
    13. Biology. an organism or part that shows an unusual or singular deviation from the normal or parent type; mutation.
    14. Obsolete. amorous dalliance.
    –adjective
    15. of, pertaining to, or used in sports or a particular sport.
    16. suitable for outdoor or informal wear: sport clothes.
    –verb (used without object)
    17. to amuse oneself with some pleasant pastime or recreation.
    18. to play, frolic, or gambol, as a child or an animal.
    19. to engage in some open-air or athletic pastime or sport.
    20. to trifle or treat lightly: to sport with another's emotions.
    21. to mock, scoff, or tease: to sport at suburban life.
    22. Botany. to mutate.
    –verb (used with object)
    23. to pass (time) in amusement or sport.
    24. to spend or squander lightly or recklessly (often fol. by away).
    25. Informal. to wear, display, carry, etc., esp. with ostentation; show off: to sport a new mink coat.
    26. Archaic. to amuse (esp. oneself).
    —Idiom
    27. sport one's oak. oak (def. 5).
    [Origin: 1350–1400; ME; aph. var. of disport]

    —Related forms
    sportful, adjective
    sport·ful·ly, adverb
    sport·ful·ness, noun
    sportless, adjective

    —Synonyms 1. game. 3. amusement, fun, entertainment. See play. 18. romp, caper. 20. toy.
     
  14. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Member

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    Too bad they didn't use all those definitions when deciding what "sporting" meant in 1968. Maybe real AK's wouldn't cost $15k+
     
  15. rfurtkamp

    rfurtkamp Member

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    Wish they did use real definitions, but whatever "sporting purpose" is, ATF has ruled that NFA stuff is not.

    And for the purposes of discussing NFA stuff, their world is sadly law.
     
  16. Still 2 Many Choices!?

    Still 2 Many Choices!? Member

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    I don't pretend to know the political beliefs of everyone here, but just to clarify, Ron Paul is my congressman, I have a friend on the swat team that will probably vouch form me to police chief( I out shot him with his issue 10" commando M-16 :)), and finally, the best reason of all, this is TEXAS!!!!! In Texas(as in many states), I, as a citizen, have a right to arms written into our own state constitution! If the chief doesn't want to sign, he is violating his oath of office, IMHO, but I would simply move up the sign off ladder to the D.A. Since a right to firearms is also written into the state constitution, I don't see how using the Second Am(thx:))endment to justify said form1, with no mention of the m-word(militia), should be a problem.

    You guys do bring up a valid point though. In todays P.C. world, certain words have gained a more negative connotation, and become unpalatable to the general populace. The word militia, for example. So I would not use ," to join my militia brethren in the fight against communism! Go Wolverines!!"or some such yester-year insanity such as that, to justify the form1 :rolleyes:... This thread has been very informative so far, hope the discussion doesn't end to soon.

    Still 2 Many Choices!?
    No need to cry if he won't sign off,
     
  17. Beren

    Beren Moderator Emeritus

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    I just used "All lawful purposes" on mine. Why taunt the bureaucracy when all I want to do is get the stupid paperwork approved as quickly as possible?
     
  18. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

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    A CLEO does not have to sign off on a Form 1 or Form 4.
     
  19. Gunnerpalace

    Gunnerpalace Member

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    Please elaborate.
     
  20. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Not if you go the trust or corporation route. CLEO signoffs are only required for individuals.
     
  21. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

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    There is no law that says the CLEO has to sign the form. None. If they don't want to do it, there's nothing you can do to make them.
     
  22. jburnett

    jburnett Member

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    EVERY Form 4 I have (and my Form 1's) state: "For my personal use and investment."
    -J.Burnett
     
  23. Gunnerpalace

    Gunnerpalace Member

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    Oh Ok i thought you meant that it did not need to be signed at all. (Individual speaking)
     
  24. WoofersInc

    WoofersInc Member

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    I have used the phrase "For collecting and recreation" on my forms with no problems
     
  25. Still 2 Many Choices!?

    Still 2 Many Choices!? Member

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    Well thanx to all that responded(especially those that qualified their position of why not). I have yet to decide if I will go forward with my slightly different form 1 ,but since I am still atleast 3-4 weeks out from filing the paperwork, I have time to decide. I will update this thread once I figure it all out, and the paperwork is ready to go.

    Still 2 Many Choices!?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2008
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