NICS check while waiting for permit to purchase?

[bushmaster1313]

In New Jersey each handgun transfer to a non FFL requires a permit to purchase that now takes about 30 days from the time of the application.

Therefore, many handguns sit at NJ FFLs waiting for the NJ permit to purchase to come through.

And then, before taking the handgun home the purchaser needs a NICS check, which in NJ now takes about 3 days.

Question. NICS approvals are good for 30 days. A few days before the permit to purchase is expected to issue can the purchaser have the FFL run the NICS check so that everything is ready when the permit to purchase is approved?

Not planning to try this for two reasons.
1) Don’t want to risk muddying the waters for the permit to purchase
2) Can’t be sure when the permit to purchase will issue.

But inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Doc7]

This is the legal sub where speculation isn’t recommended, but your question is a essentially asking if the FFL can run a background check before you’re ready to actually purchase the firearm, which I've never heard of one doing.

Also - glad NJ takes 30 days on the purchase permit now, when I lived there it was about 4 months, despite the legal requirement.

here’s the irony for you - they’re doing the exact same background check both times!

 

[12Bravo20]

Each state is different.

Missouri use to require a permit to purchase that was issued by the Sheriff in the county you lived in. A FFL would not even start the 4473 or do a background check unless you already had your permit from the Sheriff. The permit was good for 30 days and if you got a deny from NICS and successfully appealed the denial, if it took more than 30 days you had to go get a new permit to purchase.

here’s the irony for you - they’re doing the exact same background check both times!

Yes they are. And that is why we were able to get rid of one of the last Jim Crow laws here in Missouri. No need to do the same background check twice or allow a political elected official control who could or could not purchase/possess handguns.

 

[1942bull]

Every time I read about permits to purchase I am so happy that I live in PA. I think permits to,purchase ought to be declared unconstitutional. In PA we have the NICS check and the PICS check. The PICS check is done by the state police and is a check of PA criminal records. So if some felon in PA does not get into the federal data it will be in the PA database. To me that is all the checking that should be required. It all happens the day you buy the gun. It’s simple.

 

[Dale Alan]

Every place is different .We go by County here , and the judge makes the decisions for all things handgun .It can take months at times . The last judge very rarely allowed a person a concealed carry permit without certain restrictions . Dealers will not run a NICS check until you have your papers in hand .

 

[CapnMac]

A few days before the permit to purchase is expected to issue can the purchaser have the FFL run the NICS check

Only a "maybe."
The way the regs read, the NICS check is part of the beginning of the actual transfer process, the steps needed to write the firearm out of his books and make it yours.
So, as a mental process, most FFL are going to tend to link the check with the actual hand-off.

Now, if many customers are experiencing "Delay" as a result of the check, they might be inclined to consider checking early. But, they are under no onus nor regulation to do so.

Now, since--per cursory examination of NJ law, there's no requirement to "help the customer out" an FFL in NJ might well feel burdened to not help at all.

But largely that's not a Legal issue. It's more of a General Handguns issue.

 

[dogtown tom]

....Question. NICS approvals are good for 30 days. A few days before the permit to purchase is expected to issue can the purchaser have the FFL run the NICS check so that everything is ready when the permit to purchase is approved?

Background checks, whether by FBI NICS or by the state POC are only initiated after the buyer has completed and signed the Form 4473. Your dealer is required to complete section A before the buyer/transferee begins Section B with his personal information. A Form 4473 and subsequent NICS check can only be done pursuant to an actual firearm purchase or transfer.....there are no practice runs or "to see if I can pass" NICS checks.

There is nothing in federal law that addresses "permit to purchase" requirements specifically, but does state that the transfer must comply with state law.

 

[dogtown tom]

This is the legal sub where speculation isn’t recommended, but your question is a essentially asking if the FFL can run a background check before you’re ready to actually purchase the firearm, which I've never heard of one doing.

Sounds to me like he's ready right now.
There is nothing illegal about paying for a firearm years in advance, but its likely NJ law requires a permit to purchase before taking possession. No one takes lawful possession until the Form 4473 and background check are completed.

 

[12Bravo20]

your question is a essentially asking if the FFL can run a background check before you’re ready to actually purchase the firearm, which I've never heard of one doing.

There is one exception to that. The exception only effects pawn shops that have a FFL though. If someone was acting really shady of if the gun fit the description of stolen guns, I would run a NICS check at the time of pawn and of course the legally required NICS check when they got their gun out of pawn.

There is nothing in federal law that addresses "permit to purchase" requirements specifically, but does state that the transfer must comply with state law.

And that is the bad part about states that require a permit to purchase which is not specifically covered by federal law must must still be followed. I'm sure that NJ does a background check before issuing their permit to purchase then the FFL has to do the NICS instant check. I know that's how it works in Missouri before we got rid of the permit to purchase requirements.

 

[Tirod]

Each state is different.

Missouri use to require a permit to purchase that was issued by the Sheriff in the county you lived in. A FFL would not even start the 4473 or do a background check unless you already had your permit from the Sheriff. The permit was good for 30 days and if you got a deny from NICS and successfully appealed the denial, if it took more than 30 days you had to go get a new permit to purchase.



Yes they are. And that is why we were able to get rid of one of the last Jim Crow laws here in Missouri. No need to do the same background check twice or allow a political elected official control who could or could not purchase/possess handguns.

That's why it was all so tiresome and I'm glad it's gone. Now you walk in, fill out the form, they ring it up and you pays your money. Somewhere between fill out the forum and ring it up on my last lower it got approved and I had to ask. Three minutes.

Caveat: I've never visited DC and don't own a dog. Seems to work.

 

[unclenunzie]

My direct experience when I lived in NJ was my gun go-to gun shop/FFL required you to stay in their presence while the background check cleared. At the time the worst case was an hour, but that was years ago. At the time there was also a requirement that people you personally know would have to assert on a legal form that you were a person of good character - by answering questions about you. Otherwise your NJFPID or PPP application would be denied. Don't know if this is still a state requirement. By far that was the worst intrusion into the 2A ( I felt) as it clearly means people new to the state might not know anyone for a while.