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Nighttime incident, Mossberg 500 made it more comfortable

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by nsf003, Sep 22, 2003.

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  1. nsf003

    nsf003 Member

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    A few nights ago, my mom came into my room and roused me from a deep sleep. This was like zero dark thirty. What did she want? A dog was in our pool. On top of the cover, growling and barking. My mom and dad went out to try and coax the thing off the cover but they were having difficulty. I walked out, and saw this big brown dog that was growling really mean, scared me. So i turn around, go back in the house, get the shotgun out of the safe, chamber a round of #3 buck, and go back out. My mom and dad have the dog at the steps now, they are trying to pull the cover with the dog on it, hoping he would get the hint. I stood there, shivering, hoping to God that the dog would just walk away. My mom saw my shotgun and told me that I would be in trouble if I shot the dog and I should just shoot into the air. Riiiiight. I told her I would but made up my mind all my shots were going to be COM.

    Suprisingly, the dog just lumbered away into the night, never to be seen again. We went inside, and I put the gun away.

    Today, I asked my mom if she would have punished me for shooting the dog if it attacked. She told me no she wouldn't and didn't know why she told me she would be mad if i shot it.

    Gotta love shotguns for nighttime excursions.

    nsf003
     
  2. Mark Tyson

    Mark Tyson Member

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    If you live in a residential area it can be a crime to discharge a firearm, except obvisously in self defense(hopefully). If in the country, it could antagonize the dog's owner and may still be unwise. Unless the dog was threatening people or property, the better thing to do would be to wait until it left or call animal control if such a service is available where you live.

    A shotgun seems like a good choice for this incident, with low light levels and close ranges.
     
  3. Black92LX

    Black92LX Member

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    i had a dog that hated to come inside (honestly) we would leave the door open for hours but it would always hang outside. so one night i awoke to some of the awfulest sounds ever. Me dog (Brawny) Vs Racoon. So i flipped on the lights and it ran off. next night same thing. then the third night i would have no more of it. so i loaded up my daisy eagle with a ponited pellet and pumped it and got that little coon in the crosshairs of my scope. and wham. that thing never came back. i turned around to see my very anger mother. she really mad at me but i would rather have shot the coon then had to shoot my dog if it came down with rabies cuz of the crazy coon.
     
  4. ysr_racer

    ysr_racer Member

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    You live at home with your mom and dad and use terms like "zero dark thirty"? You were going to shoot a dog for being in your back yard?

    I just want to be sure I've got the facts correct.
     
  5. Geech

    Geech Member

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    He was willing to, not going to, shoot an unfamiliar and potentially dangerous animal that was growling at his family members. Getting facts straight is one thing, but spinning them into a half-truth is another altogether.
     
  6. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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  7. Quartus

    Quartus Member

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    Sounds perfetly reasonable to me. Strange large dog, growling. Standing by prepared to defend his parents if the dog attacked. Dog didn't attack, young man didn't shoot.


    Sounds like a good job, nsf003.



    I had a friend who was attacked by a dog. The paramedics said he came within a millimeter of dying - that's how close one of the gashes was to his jugular vein. He was alone at the time.


    BTW, my friend is big, strong, and very capable.


    Dog are serious business.
     
  8. ysr_racer

    ysr_racer Member

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    Lighten up Francis, you guys are scaring me. Cover the perp, book 'em Dano, 10-4 over and out.

    Geez, Walter Mity, get a life.

    On the other hand, that's what I want, a 16 year old kid making life and death decisions...

    Here's another possible solution, hello animal control, there's a dog in my parents back yard...
     
  9. goon

    goon Member

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    I had a similar incident a few months back.
    I was talking with my parents on the back porch when I saw something stick its head out of the open door of their shed.
    My dad quickly retrieved his little Rossi pump action .22 and handed it to me (he can't see iron sights very well).
    I moved closer to see what it was before I just shot it, and it was the biggest...



    Porcupine I had ever seen in my life. It was rearing and raging....
    Just kidding. It just waddled out and started for the woods. My dad was intent on shooting it. He has 2 dogs that are strong but no too bright and he felt that if it was around, they would try to get some of it. I am sure the porcupine would have been glad to oblige them.:D

    Anyhow, I volunteered to shoot it. I knew full well that if my dad went, he would kill it. I also knew that I had no intention of harming it, I just wanted to chase it away. I chased it about 25 yards into the woods, but then he got clever.
    He took refuge in the wheel well of an old car. I prodded him out with the gun barrel, but he took exception to being manhandled.

    What happened next is sort of a blur...
    I remember the porcupine charging out of the wheel well and heading straight for me. I took about three steps backwards, easily gaining a lead on the menacing beast. I pointed the gun at him, but I couldn't shoot him.
    He was just a stupid animal who didn't know any better. And if someone stuck a gun in my ribs, I might try to kick his a$$ too.
    I just stepped aside as he ran (they really don't run) past me. He took cover in the same shed that he had been chased from not three minutes earlier. I didn't really know what to do. I just left him alone and he left when he felt like it. Haven't seen him since.

    Just goes to show you, you should always respect the wildlife.:D
     
  10. son of a gun

    son of a gun member

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    The way people train those dam Rotweilers and pitbulls now days, you never know what might happen. Better not assume Scooby Doos in the pool and wants a Scooby snack, a late night swim is irrational behavior even for dog, it might of had rabies.
     
  11. Gabe

    Gabe Member

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    If it's making noises I'll chuck a shoe at it from the window. Otherwise I tend to ignore strange animals in my yard. Animals sometimes get confused about territory in the dark, they'll figure it out by morning.
     
  12. Ari

    Ari Member

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    Well...

    I'd really have to side with YSR on this one. Calling animal control would have been ALOT better choice, if not your "only reasonable" choice. Sounds like you were all to quick to run and grab your gun. You have to remember, dog's don't know any better. ANY animal, if felt cornered, which I'm sure this dog felt with 3 unfamiliar people around it, will be "prevoked" to attack. The human (NSF aka tactical teen) needs to be the one with the clear mind to know better. Otherwise he was potentially making a decision that could have resulted with either the dog or parents laying in a pool of blood. Use your head, before you reach for that gun, otherwise you, and your surrounding community, would be better off without you having one.

    There are different tools for different jobs. We shouldn't be so quick to resort to our guns when a much smarter alternate, like simply picking up a phone IN THIS SITUATION, would have been a much smarter choice. I'm not saying, if you hear a burglar enter your home, or if you are attacked that you should run for the phone FIRST, NO, in that situation grab the gun FIRST on the way to the phone if feasible.

    Resorting to shoot, especially in this "controled" situation, should have been the ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT. I mean, you weren't "forced" into action. The dog did not create an immediate threat to you or your family. It was your decision to confront it at the pool. YOU placed your self in that situation.

    I am all for guns and self protection and all, but man, you would have made a serious life altering decision should that situation had gotten ugly. Potentially shooting one of your parents on accident, especially with a shotgun shell. I highly doubt that you've trained for this situation.

    Don't mean to come down on you kid. Been there, done that. As you get older that itchy trigger finger subsides with many more moons over your head, and you begin using your "big" muscle first.

    see ya...
     
  13. swingset

    swingset Member

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    Not wanting to sound condescending, but I agree it's probably a situation where the shotgun added more problems than it solved.

    Glad it all worked out. Sounds like the dog was pretty much stuck in one place, so next time assess the situation before you act, don't be afraid to use the phone and call someone who gets paid to handle this kind of thing. It might save you or the poor dog.
     
  14. goon

    goon Member

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    As you get older that itchy trigger finger subsides with many more moons over your head, and you begin using your "big" muscle first.

    Last time I tried using the "big muscle", someone pulled their shotgun on me.:D :D
     
  15. seeker_two

    seeker_two Member

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    Sounds like you did OK, but I'd add something to your "arsenal"...

    You need a low-powered BB gun (i.e. Daisy Red Ryder) for dogs & other varmints like this. Quiet enough not to disturb the neighbors, and a BB to the backside of the dog will provide him with enough "motivation" to head to another yard w/o injuring it.

    I keep one beside my back door for the occasional dog that crosses my yard & tries to do its business in the flowerbeds. Most of the neighborhood dogs know to head the other way when they see me outside...:evil:

    If the dog is threatening you or your loved ones, use the shotgun instead. That's self-defense.
     
  16. BluesBear

    BluesBear member

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    NSF003 you did good.

    As to the rest of the armchair quarterbacks...

    Why didn't anyone ask why Mom & Dad didn't call animal control?
    After all Mom was the one who woke NSF up with a problem.

    Itchy trigger finger? No way. He didn't shoot, not even into the air when prompted. SHooting into the air is reckless. PERIOD!

    He was HOPING the dog would just walk away (which it finally did). But, he was willing to do whatever it took to keep anyone from getting hurt.

    What if that poor lost confused little puppydog had decided to attack the big bad man who was trying to save it by pulling it, while on the pool cover, closer to the steps so it could escape?

    I wonder if I am the only one around here who remembers the "Devil Dog" hunts down in Georgia back in the 1970s? Anyone here have any idea how much damage a "big brown dog" can do and how fast it can do it?

    As for me, if I was in a similar situation I would probably do the same thing.
    And if I was the one pulling the cover... I'd welcome NSF and Brother Mossberg standing by.





    Just in case.
     
  17. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    nsf003 did just fine here.

    Let's take another look, shall we?

    1) At age 16, he's not going to have a whole lot of ability to convince his parents that driving the beastie in question out is a bad idea versus walled retreat and a call to animal control. The "chain of command" is generally pretty well set in most families :). So we can debate which is the best approach all day long...

    2) He knew that the doggy had growled at him in a threatening manner.

    3) It therefore follows that since the parental units are going to screw around with an unfriendly beast, having a shotgun out and ready JUST IN CASE isn't a bad idea.

    Now, there's other things we don't even know about:

    * Were there other family-owned critters that would be in danger if they all went inside?

    * Was the pool cover gonna blow out from the weight of the dang dog, at some expense? No to mention a dead drowned dog in the pool because with most of the cover still on, it'd basically become a giant one-way doggy trap? Or you manage to pop enough of the pool cover out, and among the various adjectives for the dog such as "large", "pissed off", etc. we can now add "wet" and "scared"?

    (In other words, we don't even know if the parents were correct in wanting that dog gone ASAP.)

    In any case, at age 16 he didn't have a whole lot of control over the actions of the adults present.

    Fact: he held fire because it wasn't necessary.

    Conclusion: I see nothing particularly wrong with his reasoning abilities or ability to use judicious force. I've met any number of 16 year olds who I'd trust to cover a dog with a shotgun just in case, and I see plenty of evidence from his posts that he's one such.

    Finally, if he was indeed the only one present with a clear head, it wouldn't be the first time a kid has shown more brains that the adults present. I can recall an incident when I was approx. 14 and was several miles out to sea in too small a boat with my dad and kid brother when the wind came up and dad panicked. Us "dumb kids" kept our heads because we'd literally grown up around small boats, so what to do was 2nd nature.
     
  18. Kendra Pacelli

    Kendra Pacelli Member

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    "When Animals Attack.....Not when there is a Moss availabe"!


    Good Job nsf!
     
  19. nsf003

    nsf003 Member

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    Thanks for the kind words.

    The dog was on the pool cover, struggling, and was probably going to drown. He was all tangled up, barking his head off. He was ruining the cover. My parents wanted him gone. I don't know why they didn't call animal control, but I live in a small town and probably don't have a 24 hour a day unit. Not sure about it though. I'll talk with them and get back to you.

    I think that is a correct addition.

    nsf003
     
  20. StuporDave

    StuporDave Member

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    wrote

    Depends on the kid. If it were my son at sixteen (he's 18 now), in that situation, I would have no problem with him making the shoot/don't shoot decision. He's a responsible kid, knows his way around firearms, and is a good shot. I may not have put him in that situation, I'd probably make a different decision, but I'd trust him in that situation. I don't know him, but nsf003 seems like he might be that kind of kid.

    Dave
     
  21. Dave Markowitz

    Dave Markowitz Member

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    nsf003,

    I think you did the right thing.
     
  22. ojibweindian

    ojibweindian Member

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    nsf003, you did good.

    For all you other "brave" souls, think about this; at o-dark-thirty, it's gonna be a while before animal control shows up. How many of you want a pissed-off dog in your back yard until Mr. Dog Catcher shows up?
     
  23. Ari

    Ari Member

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    again...

    Wether it was his parents decision or not, someone with a clear mind should have known better. I don't understand that you guys expected him to handle the situation properly, yet he wasn't empowered enough to give his parents advise???? I don't know about your family, but growing up my parents respected my decisions/advise as well, and took them with serious consideration. If they didn't know any better I would have told them to come inside and call the animal control while keeping watch on the dogs condition. If anything, they could have made it worst by either botching the rescue attempt and potentially drowning the dog, or prevoking the dog to attack and then be placed in a situation that he would not have be able to handle properly. Just to play hero.

    This is a prime example of the #1 rule I remember when learning martial arts. At all cost, if given the "choice" try to resolve the problem peacefully first, and keep from having to use any of my training. Then and only then when you are "forced" into a situation should you act with out hesitation. I'm all for that. These are our youths, I may not be his parents, but I beleive it takes a village to raise a child. So I'm not trying to scold him like his parent, just a little brotherly advise is all.

    So NSF, I'm not flaming you or anything little bro, just offering food for thought. I'm sure when you typed this post you were some what soliciting advise and/or review of your actions, so I hope you can take this criticism "constructively" and not think I'm just out bashing you bro. I know we can't all act accordingly to stressful situations, me included, and it's easier to say after the fact, but I hope you can take some of this and put it in the back of your head anyhow. Glad everything worked out for you and your family.

    Bluesbear: "As to the rest of the armchair quarterbacks..."

    If I'm the quarterback, you must be the cheerleader....
    :rolleyes:

    A couple of things. I KNOW first hand what I dog can do to you. Me and my little brother were mauled from a couple of disoriented German Shepards back in my paperboy days. We even made the front page of our local papers. So I'm not talking out of my ??? here. I know very well the capability of a dog.
    Second, "Hoping" and "acting" are two totally different things.

    If your all for RKBA and keeping the 2nd amendment we need to be able to advise our "own", or else the Anti's will do it for us. This could have been a decision that could put more leverage the Anti's could have used shoud this situation have gotten ugly. That may mean that sometimes taking the minority, and point out things some people don't necessarily want to hear or say. Besides, if this is a view a pro 2A guy is taking, what the hell do you think a blissninny is going to think. If that's all it takes I'm all for it, and you can flame me all ya'll like.
     
  24. ysr_racer

    ysr_racer Member

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    That's a joke, right? My parents taught / told me that until you're 25 years old and living on your own, your opinions are invalid.

    And you know what, they were right.
     
  25. Ari

    Ari Member

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    thats too bad...

    Why would you call how my parents raised me a joke? Treat them like an adult, and they could act like one. I guess I was fortunate enough to be raised differently. My parents never did any of that goo goo gaa gaa stuff to me. Even as a child I was talked to properly. They even advocated against any of the family talking to me in such a fashion. They made me manage my own money at a very young age, I was the only 8 year old with my own checking account under my mothers name that she gave permission for me to access my account. Gave me the decision on everything and I followed through with them, good or bad, I learned that way. They never made me feel like my advise and/or decision was "childish" but it's not like they didn't solicit advise of their own to help me form a better idea, they just wanted me to decide on my own. And made me follow through with them. Guess that's the reason I saved up and bought my own car at 14.5 after working for my uncle on his farm working 12 hours a day, graduated 2 years early, moved out on my own at 17 while paying for my OWN college tuition and bought my own house (entirely on my own) at 22 after funding my own wedding that same year. Also the reason why my parents were not reluctant on getting me my own handgun at 14 and allowed for me to keep in my room, which I still have today with out a single ND. You can say it helped me be a little more independant.

    We expect our kids to responsibly handle a life altering tool like a gun but can't take into consideration their opinions or at least empower them enough? Making them to feel as though their thoughts/advise is not welcomed??? Treat him like a child, and he will act as such.
     
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