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No civilian Colts anymore

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by GEM, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. cfullgraf

    cfullgraf Member

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    I have a Colt Match Target and would not trade it for anything.

    But, it is not as good as several of my other AR-15's such as my Compass Lake Service Rifle Match rifle or some of the AR-15's that I have assemble for other special purposes.

    It is a shame that Colts are not readily available but there are other options that are available that are equal or better than a Colt. A sign of the times I guess.
     
  2. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    1985 was when a friend bought his classic-styled Colt AR-15. The carry handle and 20" barrel etc make it a pretty cool gun, and seems a fair bit more accurate than AR's with a 16" barrel (iron sights).
    It hasn't had much wear at all.

    Ironic gun for a guy who grew up in Essen Germany, whose only German gun is a Walther .P22 (.22) handgun.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
  3. Steve S.

    Steve S. Member

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    The capitalist marketplace is competitively brutal, government contracts are much more lucrative because the government recklessly spends other people’s money. An ROI will always gravitate to the government if it can; Colt made a business decision - relax.
     
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  4. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Not since PSA got involved...:)
     
  5. joed

    joed Member

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    I purchased a Colt 6920 carbine back in 2010. It was no contest after looking at what was available. I still have that rifle today and I would still buy Colt. Never owned a Colt that failed me and that is what guided my purchase.

    When I looked at what else was available I noticed other brands had cut corners with no dust covers and no forward assist, easy decision. Most younger buyers just want something that looks like an AR, but having been in the military I got used to those features.

    Sure, there are higher end manufacturers but when I was looking I saw way to many cheap guns. I've also read a lot of threads from people that built an AR and were asking advice about why they had feeding problems and other things. Colt was a solid performer.

    I did own one other AR built by Armalite. That gun had feeding problems and no reliability. My 6920 has never had a problem in 9 years.

    My experience follows what my father once told me, "If you want good clean oats you must pay a fair price, but if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse those come a little cheaper".
     
  6. bassjam

    bassjam Member

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    A bit further down in the comment section on TTAG article there's this little gem:

    This seems much more likely to be the truth, especially since there hasn't been an official statement from Colt yet.
     
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  7. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Something we also have been neglecting - what’s in the pipeline? Colt doesn’t sell consumer direct. Like most firearms manufacturers, they network through wholesalers to retailers, finally to consumers. Equally, they may have an inventory of constructible parts on hand to supplant current production for a fixed amount of time. If the pipeline were sufficiently stoked, they could completely suspend civilian model production for a couple years before we stopped seeing 6920’s on the shelf.

    The reality, of course, is they should be making more per unit on civilian models, but commit themselves in the long game to government contracts. It’s great to saturate production with secured pre-sold contracts, but it’s also only good if doing so yields a higher market reach or opportunity to expand production to meet spot sale AND pre-sold demands. I don’t believe either is the case for Colt.
     
  8. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    No one yet has seemed to explain whay exactly a Colt is so much better that any other know high end brand.??

    ARs have
    A barrel, a alloy receiver, trigger group , bolt and gas tube. and a buffer tube. Not rocket science. Maybe 20 years ago but not for long.

    Then they get into particle beam inspected, "properly staked gas key" (that always astounded me)

    So the colt has a chrome lined barrel and a regular 'Mil spec" trigger (not that mil spec means anything)

    Forget the furniture (cool term for plastic stuff)

    Same thing was said about getting a 1911. "Oh you gotta get a Colt!" Baaaa.!!
     
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  9. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    “Mil-spec” does mean something when it comes to triggers...

    “Junk.”
     
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  10. Shanghai McCoy

    Shanghai McCoy Member

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    Many forget that "Mil-spec" usually means lowest bidder... :scrutiny:
    ;)
     
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  11. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    and again here from Tom Gresham:

    https://twitter.com/Guntalk/status/1171872018570076160
     
  12. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    What are the haters gonna do now?
     
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  13. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    It may also be worth noting that when Colt "invented" the M4, the TDP (Technical Data Package) with all of the uber detailed manufacturing information (think metallurgy, heat treating specifics, etc....) was their proprietary information. Only Colt could build a "true" M4.

    It wasn't until years later when the contractual commitments to Colt were fulfilled and the TDP was released for others to bid military contracts that competitors could even really know what the true "mil. spec" requirements were.

    So as mentioned, once upon a time Colt's "mil. spec." quality really was a thing. But those days are long gone.

    Interesting to read that article about the M4A1 PIP program and that the Army is using both FN and Colt to rapidly upgrade some 400,000 M4s.

    So yah, Colt ditching civilian sales at a time then they don't make any money competing with the likes of PSA not only gives them PC points with the pro-gun control statist crowd, it enables them to dedicate that mfg. capacity to filling what are likely much more profitable M4A1 PIP and foreign military sales contracts.

    They're running a business and these are business decisions. They have long been run by the lap top MBA crowd and have very little resemblance to the smaller players in the marketplace who sincerely hold pro 2A ideals.
     
  14. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    Good question. What a Colt has is brand loyalty. For a time a Colt product represented quality, and that reputation was built on handguns and rifles. And there are people who remember that reputation and would pay extra for the prancing pony. But that was a long time ago.

    Colt has gone through a number of owners that just bled the profits out of the Company, and when its monopoly on civilian AR's was broken by Bushmaster that was actually a mortal wound. Because in time, the scandal of the Army being wedded to Colt forced some fundamental changes. (The Army was the junior partner in the marriage) Colt had forsaken the civilian market for the very profitable military market. But once the divorce papers were signed, Colt had to compete against business capable of building AR's, and Colt lost their military contracts.

    I never saw how Colt could stay in business making hideously expensive 45 LC single action revolvers (with 0.458" chamber mouths!) and expensive M1911's. Must have been public subsidies. Maybe those have run out.
     
  15. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    Colt is a well known trademark, and you pay for that. Ask the average person if they've ever heard of PSA, probably not, but even non gun people will know of Colt. Like Band-Aid rather than adhesive bandage, or Jet-Ski rather than personal watercraft.

    Colts are probably better than some, not as good as others, but given the choice, many people will opt to pay a little more for the rampant pony. They probably have a better used market value, too.

    People here generally have a better understanding of the nuances in the different brands than most.
     
  16. rodinal220

    rodinal220 Member

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    Colt has had terrible management for 40 years. The industry inside joke is "where do you find Colt Executives?...….the golf course". The UAW strike and weird ownership at one time, Private, UAW workers, Connecticut didn't help. Colt bought Diemaco/Colt Canada because they lost most of their brain trust (engineers). Working in Gun Valley is expensive and hostile nowadays politically. Current management really continued the Colt Disaster Model of how to run a gun company.

    Colt has continued to outsource production of parts over the years.Many parts of the Ar15/M16/M4 are made by other companies and a smart shopper who knows what to look for can source these components for a fraction of Colts Gold Plated prices. Colt used to really mean something as far as quality at one time. They used the highest quality materials and used skilled workers and turned out very high quality products, now nobody cares. Colt has made numerous errors over the decades and the only thing that kept them afloat was M16/M4 contracts.

    I do not want Colt to fail. I really HOPE someone who really cares about Colt and its workers and products could take the reins and straighten things out, but it may be too late this time. Too many great American gun companies are gone and exist in name only. Sad.
     
  17. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    Guess I don't care much either way. I've got an AR but it's not a Colt and my next one will be a BCM or PWS. Honestly the AR mostly sits in the cabinet since I got my Bren 805. The only Colt I've ever had was a Commander in ,38 Super. Nothing against them, just never seemed to offer as much for the money as some of the other players.
     
  18. FredWyn

    FredWyn member

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    Colt Statement Regarding Cessation Of Commercial AR-15 Production
    September 19th, 2019
    Company Response to Questions about Colt Participation in Consumer Markets

    WEST HARTFORD, Conn. (September 19th, 2019) – There have been numerous articles recently published about Colt’s participation in the commercial rifle market. Some of these articles have incorrectly stated or implied that Colt is not committed to the consumer market. We want to assure you that Colt is committed to the Second Amendment, highly values its customers and continues to manufacture the world’s finest quality firearms for the consumer market.

    The fact of the matter is that over the last few years, the market for modern sporting rifles has experienced significant excess manufacturing capacity. Given this level of manufacturing capacity, we believe there is adequate supply for modern sporting rifles for the foreseeable future.

    On the other hand, our warfighters and law enforcement personnel continue to demand Colt rifles and we are fortunate enough to have been awarded significant military and law enforcement contracts. Currently, these high-volume contracts are absorbing all of Colt’s manufacturing capacity for rifles. Colt’s commitment to the consumer markets, however, is unwavering. We continue to expand our network of dealers across the country and to supply them with expanding lines of the finest quality 1911s and revolvers.

    At the end of the day, we believe it is good sense to follow consumer demand and to adjust as market dynamics change. Colt has been a stout supporter of the Second Amendment for over 180 years, remains so, and will continue to provide its customers with the finest quality firearms in the world.

    Very respectfully,

    Dennis Veilleux, President and Chief Executive Officer
     
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  19. CharliesHammer

    CharliesHammer Member

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    Colt can do what they will. I own a couple of Colt hand guns only and will sell neither. What does bother me is the spin. This could be the print media doing there thing. It almost comes across as virtue signaling. If that's the case I will never buy another Colt. My guess is they have allot of military contracts to fulfill and it's a profit thing, I get it, no problem. Only time will tell.
    Mill spec. two years ago I got a great deal on a new FN and have done many upgrades and couldn't be happier with the finished product.
     
  20. Mauser lover

    Mauser lover Member

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    Wait... Colt makes ARs?









    JOKING! (sort of)
     
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  21. FredWyn

    FredWyn member

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    We all know COLT has been horribly mismanaged for many, many years and their day has come and gone, but they are still making rugged, dependable, reliable AR-15s. They are not pretty. If you are expecting some kind of boutique AR with marketing that convinces you it is magically accurate and "the best" ... sure, you can pay for that (hint: BCM!).

    My M4A1 SOCOM has never let me down and I have tens of thousands of rounds through it and maybe I'll have to change its barrel one of these days. Otherwise routine cleaning, basic maintenance and she is good to go.
     
  22. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    Meh. Another thread that spawns bashing of Colt and its products.

    Myself, I own two Colt M-4s, and they are very, very good ARs. And yes, I own other brands as well - DD, SA and BCM.
     
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  23. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    Sometimes I think the AR enthusiasts here might like to take an armorer’s wrench to my head for some of the questions I ask that I ought to know, but even I have yet to assemble an AR that didn’t go bang from round 1, albeit with the help of THR’s membership.

    So many of the problem posts we see have little to do with lack of quality, rather of not recognizing that things which physically fit together won’t necessarily work well together.

    I have a higher regard for Colt’s adherence to specific assembly procedures and their consistent part quality now that I’ve torn apart a few others’ rifles, and I don’t think I’ve done worse by applying some of those same procedures with parts of my own choosing. I’d also be curious to know where you guys shop that sells LMT or Bravo for the price of a Colt. Everywhere I look Colts cost less.
     
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  24. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    I really don't need to read any farther. As an econ teacher, I say you just hit a home run.

    The invisible hand of the free market has spoken.
     
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  25. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    My rifle in basic in 94 was an FN. I had to ask, what's FN? LOL
     
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