No Guns = No Money: Let's educate the masses.

[hatt]

I noticed your "No Guns Allowed" sign. What I didn't notice was the qualified armed security officer you should have provided to ensure my safety while patronizing your business unarmed. These circumstances have resulted in your business being potentially too dangerous for my family and I to visit and we have been forced to take our business elsewhere.

Or something like that.

 

[Thedub88]

I made a version of the cards for Massachusetts. If your from Mass, PM me your email, and I'll send it to you

 

[Cluster Bomb]

Most people around my area are hunters, and we are welcomed with smiles.

 

[ForumSurfer]

No, you can not change the world overnight, but you CAN improve your little piece of it, one step at a time!

Yep, I did something similar with a local business that I wanted to frequent more often. I fully expected nothing to happen. Wouldn't you know it, it worked. I was shocked. I also felt really, really obligated to go and buy something from the shop.

 

[Strykervet]

Here is my cheap'o one i made a lil while ago.

This one is too confrontational. More like an ultimatum. The one the OP posted says the exact same thing but isn't confrontational and doesn't sound like an ultimatum. It is simple, to the point, and educational. It says, very simply, that the potential armed robber isn't likely to oblige their no firearms policy, but that permit holders will --and the trade off to disallowing them, the ones that are willing to oblige, is to simply shop elsewhere. The bottom line, "how much do you know about your other shoppers" is great.

Seldom does short, educational, non-confrontational and efficient idea to change policies regarding this come along. I think it is genius, and the fact it costs nothing more than printer ink and paper is great.

Perhaps making an alternative sign for them to post would be a good idea too, but everyone would have to get on the same page. You could hand out the index card or whatever with the OP's message (the color one works better in my opinion) and along with it, an alternative sign. You should find and join all your local shooting sites and seed this as much as possible, get everyone's opinion in your state, and settle on an alternative no-firearms *except* sign.

I don't know what kind of sign you'd need, I think offering one would increase the chance of them actually changing their policy, in particular with small businesses that don't have these decisions made ten states away in some board room. But the OP's idea is ingenious, and in combination with alternative signs to post in the window, I think you could make some change. Once one starts, they will all follow suit, they want the money more than they care about you carrying or not. I can tell you for a fact that Starbucks will be a good place to start. They are carry friendly, very carry friendly here in their home state. Big deal about my local one on Opencarry.org and the resulting good that came out of it (Starbucks stood behind folks legally carrying and the cops got educated as to what the law says and were told not to harrass folks when some nut calls saying "I see a gun!")

I'm lucky in that I live in a state where a business can't prevent me from carrying. Only bars, big outdoor concerts (?) and schools are off limits (but you can carry if dropping off or picking up) local and state buildings with restricted areas must provide a check-in, and federal buildings, they are off limits. The city of Seattle tried to make all city property, which includes all the parks and a lot of other real-estate into no firearms zones. Since it violated our very simple state law, it fell through and wasted money just like everyone told the mayor it would.

When it comes to no firearms stickers around here, unless in those places above (which I rarely frequent save the VA hospital and post office) I just ignore them. They are rare outside federal buildings here anyway. I conceal carry, but I'm not too fastidious about keeping it from showing if the wind blows my shirt or jacket open, or if it prints if I stoop down. If I'm in an anti establishment for some reason, the worst they can do is ask me to leave, and if I refuse, I can get charged with misdemeanor trespassing. Never been in this situtation though, and I've been here over ten years. If I were asked to leave, I would, never come back, and also post about it on all my local sites.

But perhaps having that card would be a good idea here too as then they'd know why all of a sudden business dropped off.

Great idea, OP, just great. You really need to go onto your local shooting sites and, oh yeah, go to your local shooting clubs. Not just ranges, the clubs. They'll really be into it. Gun shops and such might be a good idea to advertise the idea and hand out cards too.

 

[wannabeagunsmith]

I like those signs. Good idea.

 

[two gun charlie]

well here in my sunny part of the world every second shop has those signs , and we all simply ignore them , because most carry concealed , however I have noticed the odd open carry cowboy simply ignoring the signs as well , and nobody in the shop seemed to notice . I think those signs are just silly and a waste of money , they could rather put up a sign stating that if you plan to rob this shop be warned that many of our patrons carry bigger guns than you and know how to use them
(and are itching to shoot a thug like you )

 

[Steve Raacke]

I don't Conceal Carry so the way the cards are worded don't apply to me or others who practice permitless Open Carry.
Also, I've rarely encountered problems with business owners and have only been asked to leave one resturant (Cici's Pizza) by management. There was no sign on the door. I doubt a card like this would make much of a difference.

 

[lady32]

I am fortunate to live in an area where this is not much of an issue. People come here to hunt and most locals own at least one if not more firearms - for hunting and personal protection. I was surprised when I recently encountered a sign in a nearby town that read "Please unload your weapon before entering the premises." Wouldn't this be the same as stating "No weapons allowed"???

 

[Wanderling]

I'm afraid there's one point missing here - some businesses do it not because they are afraid of you carrying, but because they're worried that a person carrying on premises, if noticed, would scare off non-carrying customers (who usually constitute a far greater majority of customers).

Perhaps the right approach, before handing over this card, is to humbly and politely ask them to explain their policy to you, specifically what is it they're afraid of or are trying to achieve. I would think that a lot of these signs were really meant as "no open carrying", "no printing your weapon" type. Just my $.02...

 

[Neverwinter]

I'm afraid there's one point missing here - some businesses do it not because they are afraid of you carrying, but because they're worried that a person carrying on premises, if noticed, would scare off non-carrying customers (who usually constitute a far greater majority of customers).

Perhaps the right approach, before handing over this card, is to humbly and politely ask them to explain their policy to you, specifically what is it they're afraid of or are trying to achieve. I would think that a lot of these signs were really meant as "no open carrying", "no printing your weapon" type. Just my $.02...

This is the unfortunate reality of the issue. There are people who are afraid of guns, and their patronage will be influenced by their perception of the presence of guns. The actual presence of guns isn't the primary concern for them; they walk past CCWs every day. If the sign were to explicitly mention "no open carrying" or "no printing your weapon", it would still not address the fear of their customers because it has an acknowledgement of the presence of guns. They want to project an image of a "safe" store where no firearms are present.

For the states in which the sign is not legally binding, the possibility of the purpose of image control becomes more likely. CCW holders can continue to carry, and only face being threatened with trespassing.

 

[Steve Raacke]

This is the unfortunate reality of the issue. There are people who are afraid of guns, and their patronage will be influenced by their perception of the presence of guns. The actual presence of guns isn't the primary concern for them; they walk past CCWs every day. If the sign were to explicitly mention "no open carrying" or "no printing your weapon", it would still not address the fear of their customers because it has an acknowledgement of the presence of guns. They want to project an image of a "safe" store where no firearms are present.

And is sadly a reality that those of us who practice Open Carry must acknowledge and deal with regularly. It is important that we carry ourselves to a high standard when out in public with our firearms so as to minimize some of these fears and prevent negative encounters.

 

[Prophet]

These are cool. I've threatened to print a couple of these for my wallet, but I've never come across any buildings other than federal establishments that banned the carry of firearms here in southern PA. Must stink to live in an area where such signs are prevalent.

 

[flatlander937]

I know this is an older topic but I'm surprised you guys haven't tried to reverse the situation to prove a point:

For another spin on "educating" a business...

1) Ask them if they know of any "anti-gun" folk who have ever NOT gone into a restaurant or similar place of business because they DON'T have a "No guns" sign at the entrance? I'm willing to bet they will say zero.

2) Inform them that by prohibiting the carrying of legally owned firearms into their establishment, they are turning away potential customers who may really want to go there.

3) So given that there are restaurants that have stickers in the window prohibiting guns, and those that don't have stickers... the ones that don't have stickers will obviously have more traffic... if all else is equal.

4) People who legally carry a firearm do so in a professional manner, so as to not draw attention(when open carrying), and those who concealed carry legally you will probably never even know they have a firearm on them. The fact is... without the sticker, guns are "out of sight, out of mind" and so even if someone is carrying, customers will likely not be any wiser.



I'm sure somebody could take that and word it slightly better, but hopefully you guys get the point I'm trying to make as an additional "reason" to use in educating business owners.

 

[rsilvers]

I can't say I have ever seen a sign on a business in MA. The local mall does have a list of rules, and "no weapons" is one of them - but we can ignore such signs as they carry no force of law. Worst case is, if somehow they knew, they could ask you to leave, and if you refused, you would be trespassing. I feel bad for you in states where the signs do carry force of law. Also here, we can carry in bars - including while drinking, and in churches, sports stadiums, police stations, etc. Only schools, court houses, and federal buildings are not allowed.

 

[Arcticfox]

I work in NC, and inexplicably, the sign at work that prohibited "weapons", is down now.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I know this is an older topic but I'm surprised you guys haven't tried to reverse the situation to prove a point:

For another spin on "educating" a business...

You bring up some interesting points, but I think you aren't seeing the business owner's perspective.

1) Ask them if they know of any "anti-gun" folk who have ever NOT gone into a restaurant or similar place of business because they DON'T have a "No guns" sign at the entrance? I'm willing to bet they will say zero.

Given that they aren't trying to gain customers with the sign, this point won't matter to them.

2) Inform them that by prohibiting the carrying of legally owned firearms into their establishment, they are turning away potential customers who may really want to go there.

They know this already, but don't want the guns the potential customers will bring. Business owners fully realize that any sort of exclusionary policy will exclude some customers.

3) So given that there are restaurants that have stickers in the window prohibiting guns, and those that don't have stickers... the ones that don't have stickers will obviously have more traffic... if all else is equal.

In theory, yes, but in reality this has not produced a bottom line visible effect. In part this is because such a tremendously small part of the population are active gun carriers and many of the pro gun folks who don't carry aren't dissuaded by such signs.

4) People who legally carry a firearm do so in a professional manner, so as to not draw attention(when open carrying), and those who concealed carry legally you will probably never even know they have a firearm on them. The fact is... without the sticker, guns are "out of sight, out of mind" and so even if someone is carrying, customers will likely not be any wiser.

And yet business owners see the news where people legally carrying firearms have ND inside of various businesses. A few of us aren't being very professional about how we carry guns and this is quite bothersome to many business owners.

 

[flatlander937]

Points taken... thanks for that!

 

[Neverwinter]

You bring up some interesting points, but I think you aren't seeing the business owner's perspective.

And yet business owners see the news where people legally carrying firearms have ND inside of various businesses. A few of us aren't being very professional about how we carry guns and this is quite bothersome to many business owners.

How many of those cases are there? If this is an issue with high visibility events with very low probability, education does seem to be the correct description for convincing owners why they shouldn't post the signs.

Sent using Tapatalk

 

[hso]

Neverwinter makes a good point that the risk needs to be addressed when a manager/owner brings up a recent report of an ND or some other firearm use. That incident has a high severity level even though we know that the frequency of occurrence is very very low.

Perhaps the answer to their question is another question? "Certainly that was very bad, but can you tell me of another incident like that in the same place? These are so rare as to be less likely than someone driving a car into the front of your business and injuring or killing a customer. You don't worry about that happening because you're familiar with the idea and it occurs so infrequently that it isn't a realistic worry. Having a carry permit holder have an accident is even rarer."