No modern straight pulls?

[TimboKhan]

I am guessing cost is the major factor, which probably explains why a T-Bolt runs something like $800.00. I don't know that, but it sort of makes sense. Whatever. As much as I enjoy shooting my K31, I can't say that I have truly ever desired another straight-pull. Maybe it's a little close minded on my part, but I just honestly have never shot a rifle and thought "boy, if only this were a straight-pull, that would be awesome".

 

[jbech123]

Mauser made one as well, I had a buddy that had one in .308 and it was very accurate and reliable as a hammer.

I had the M96 american in 243. It was OK but when a part proke it was hard to find, and the trigger was set at 12 lbs from the factory. I ended up selling it because there really was no advantage, since the few tenths of a second to run the bolt faster is not really a factor for the hunting etc... that I do.

 

[paducahrider]

I was wondering when someone was gonna mention the biathlon rifles.
They have been straight-pull for decades, but WHO THE HECK MAKES 'EM???
I've never seen one up close, but those biathletes can operate them quickly with one finger, and they are ACCURATE!
Thanks for your time.

 

[paducahrider]

The biathlon rifles have been a form of straight-pull for decades, but WHO THE HECK MAKES 'EM???
The biathletes can operate the action very quickly with only one finger, and the rifles are scary accurate.
I've never seen one up close but have always thought it would make a heck of a squirrel gun.
Thanks for your time.

 

[ArmedBear]

http://www.championshooters.com/1827-fbig.htm
http://www.raacfirearms.com/Biathlon_7-2.htm
http://www.raacfirearms.com/Biathlon_7-3_7-4.htm

Browning also makes a straight-pull rimfire series, the T-bolt, not Biathlon-style, a regular pull-push straight pull:
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=021B&catalog_=B

a T-Bolt runs something like $800.00

Not true. They're not Marlin 60s, but they're not that expensive.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

They're *generally* more finicky and fragile than a turnbolt. Not nearly as much torqueing power to close and open, and I believe weaker overall. But I still like them. Love the K31. The Blaser is awesome, though don't think I can afford one of those.

 

[DMK]

The straight pull suffers from all the foibles of a semiautomatic in that is LACKS the powerful camming force on chambering or primary extraction of a turn bolt and unlike a autoloader you don't have a powerful gas operated system doing the chambering or extraction for you. You only have the strength of your arm which is considerably less powerful.

Anything that can potentially jam an automatic will jam a straight pull too. The only difference is you don't have the bolt inertia to jam that dubious round home or the gas driven system to rip it out..........

I had a K31 for a while. It was a fun oddity of a gun. It was accurate, and I never had any problems with extraction. To answer the original question about why there aren't more straight pull models around, I think it has to do with cost. The K31 bolt assembly was a Swiss-watchmaker nightmare of machining. There were a dozen or so precision machined parts that made up the bolt. Modern turn bolts are infinitely simpler. Also, a turn bolt is a much sturdier design. The K31s wouldn't tolerate the pressures most modern turnbolts would before failing.

Actually, the K31 has a rotating bolt. That is what makes it so complicated. It has a camming action that converts the rearward motion of the bolt handle to a rotating motion at the bolt head. The bolt head itself locks up just like a traditional bolt action and once the bolt is unlocked, you are pulling it straight back just like a traditional bolt action.

 

[jkingrph]

Probably the machining required to make a SAFE straight pull would cost much more than that of a SAFE turn bolt. I also think the camming action of a turn bolt to be advantagous to accuracy. This month's American Rifleman describes a Ross straight pull just given to the NRA museum that lost its bolt out the rear and severely injured the shooter. Good read.

\

I think you are right on about the cost factor. I have several Swiss K-31's and one 1911, and the machining is something.

So far as accuracy, not many service rifles have been made that can match the accuracy of the Swiss straight pull series of rifles, much less consistantly exceed it.

They do lack the strong camming action of a turn bolt type action and will not as easily chamber an out of spec round as easily, nor extract a round that was loaded too hot. Compare the action with say a M-16 or M-1, which if gas system is cut off are basically straight pull rifles, probably true for most centerfire semi auto rifles as well.

There has not been the interest on this side of the Atlantic to develop them for precision target shooting as for turnbolts. From what I have seen there is a good bit of interest in Switzerland but I do not know if that goes as far as our precision bench rest type shooting. There are some target/match type rifles made on the K-3l platform, but more for what we call positon shooting, I think.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Actually, the K31 has a rotating bolt. That is what makes it so complicated. It has a camming action that converts the rearward motion of the bolt handle to a rotating motion at the bolt head. The bolt head itself locks up just like a traditional bolt action and once the bolt is unlocked, you are pulling it straight back just like a traditional bolt action.

Yes but our point is that because you're rotating the bolt on a K31 via a cam instead of a lever sticking off the side which in turn rotates the bolt and then cams the lugs into place in their raceways you're at a marked mechanical disadvantage for rotating that bolt when it needs the most force to be rotated on initial chambering or extraction compared to a traditional bolt action.

Even note how a boltaction can rechamber a fired piece of brass that was fired in that gun but other rifles can not! It's because between the leverage on the bolt handle and the camming force of the bolt lugs wedging themselves closed you have enough force there where you can actually crush the brass into a size that'll chamber. A K31 has this turned around the wrong way for mechanical advantage.

Straight pulls never caught on because on the miniscule speed of fire advantage over a turn bolt is vastly offset by the much more serious potential of the firearm not working at all in battlefield conditions and lets face it VERY few firearm operating systems have made much of a splash with sportsman when they weren't widely used in warfare as well

 

[Maverick223]

Yes but our point is that because you're rotating the bolt on a K31 via a cam instead of a lever sticking off the side which in turn rotates the bolt and then cams the lugs into place in their raceways you're at a marked mechanical disadvantage for rotating that bolt when it needs the most force to be rotated on initial chambering or extraction compared to a traditional bolt action

I disagree, I believe the K31 has camming action equal (or of negligible difference) to the standard turn-bolt.

There are only two good straight pull designs IMO. The K31 (and to a lesser extent the 1911) and the Biathalon type rimfires made by several companies (and to a lesser extent the T-bolt). All others are inferior to a standard turn-bolt rifle IMO. The K31 is an engineering marvel.

 

[ArmedBear]

It might be noted that the BLR is essentially a straight-pull centerfire bolt design with a lever attached. Leverage hides a multitude of sins.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I disagree, I believe the K31 has camming action equal (or of negligible difference) to the standard turn-bolt.

NO it does not! Not even close!

 

[ArmedBear]

WRT the K31, krochus is right. Just think about it for a second. I've rammed some pretty tight brass into a standard turnbolt (heavy crimp, not incorrect size). There's no way I could have applied the same amount of pressure to a straight-pull while holding the gun horizontal with no support. The physics don't work out.

 

[R.W.Dale]

It might be noted that the BLR is essentially a straight-pull centerfire bolt design with a lever attached. Leverage hides a multitude of sins.

as is the rem 7600

it's a straight pull with the handle in the front, that actually likely has the most in common with the K31 of anything being discussed here, one of which is the ability to be locked up tighter than a drum if fed ammo with any kind of dimensional issue or if the chamber gets rather crusty.

 

[ArmedBear]

LOL

You can do a lot worse: the PAR-3!

(For those fortunate enough not to live in California or remember the AWB very well, it's an AK-47 receiver with no gas port, and a slide added to work the action -- no camming or leverage, just an action bar attached to a moving AK foreend!)

 

[Cosmoline]

Straight pulls never caught on because on the miniscule speed of fire advantage over a turn bolt is vastly offset by the much more serious potential of the firearm not working at all in battlefield conditions

They didn't catch on because they're costly to build. The turnbolts are much more primitive and less costly to make on a large scale.

 

[ArmedBear]

They didn't catch on because they're costly to build.

I have an old Steyr-Mannlicher, and it's basically a Garand without the gas system. With a similar parts count and probably less precision, you can have a more rugged semiauto for the the same money. That's why they were never a common military weapon.