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No Recoil, no noise deer rifle

Discussion in 'Air Guns' started by Ernie Bass, Jul 29, 2020.

  1. Ernie Bass

    Ernie Bass Member

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    Facing he inevitable, I am now on the hunt for a good PCP capable of taking down deer. Looking at a number of them. Ammo is cheap. I like to shoot and shoot often.

     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
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  2. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    Wrong forum.
    I deleted my xbow post, lol
     
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  3. Ernie Bass

    Ernie Bass Member

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    Cross bows, Air rifles, Air bows. Folks should start to think out of the box. And eventually they will get it.
    As the OP of this thread, your crossbow is very welcome posted here.
     
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  4. Ernie Bass

    Ernie Bass Member

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    Intro to Air gun Hunting

     
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  5. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    Ammo is cheap, but a deer capable air rifle isn’t. Nor are they silent.
    Quieter than a conventional firearm, but noisy enough that there’s no mistaking what you just heard.
    As a career game warden I had more than a few episodes of dealing with individuals using air guns to poach small game. Until recently it wasn’t even legal to take game species with an air gun as they weren’t listed as a permissible means for taking “game” species. However not prohibited for non-game species.

    My experience with low end air guns is that cheap isn’t really, as cheap isn’t good, and don’t hold up or provide expected results.

    A .30-32cal air rifle (PCP) provides power roughly equivalent to a .32acp from a 3-3/4” barrel. Not exactly amazing power.

    However, a low end power-wise bow and arrow yields amazing penetration.
    Of course skill is an aquired asset. Earned, not purchased. Practice, practice, practice...
    I’ve never owned or shot a PCP gun. Side and barrel springers don’t seem to age well. Single stroke pneumatics lack power.

    I vote for bow and arrow. Arrows are expensive, but reusable indefinitely if cared for.

    I had a dozen target arrows (aluminum) that I purchased in high school that lasted decades.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
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  6. Ernie Bass

    Ernie Bass Member

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    With all due respect you knowledge of Air Rifles may be limited in this respect. And I Sir do have air rifles that you could very well NOT hear, unless you can hear the trigger spring from 10' away. I do not think anyone in the Air gun community uses Cheap air Rifles for hunting. Yes, some fools killing animals in their back yard with no knowledge of what they are doing. Please do not group a entire community from a few idiots that you may have come across. Yes, they are NOW very legal for hunting in many states. I suggest that you do some research into the real World of Airguns.
    And where the heck does your quote Side and Barrel Springers do not seem to age well." come from? They have been doing well for years and still many putting out $600-$1200 for them and many in use after decades of use.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2020 at 10:51 PM
  7. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    The OP was talking about deer hunting, not small game.
    I’m quite familiar with the class air guns you mention.
    Today’s equal to a 20yr old $600 gun is now $1200-1800.
    Apples to Oranges.
    The OP didn’t want a PCP, which is the only class of airgun of which will deliver the power required for big game.

    A 78gr .30cal pellet at 900fps delivers 140ft/lbs of energy.
    Fiocchi 73gr FMJ .32acp yields 853fps yields 117ft/lbs.

    I stand by what I said!
    The Hatsan Hercules is rated at 990fps max. Less than the speed of sound. A 78gr pellet carries169ft/lbs of energy.
    The .32H&R Magnum shoots a 98gr bullet to 1,100fps. 263ft/lbs.
    Close to max capability of the $1300 AirForce rifle. Most powerful.308 according to them.
    The .357’s are roughly equivalent to a.380acp handgun. Less than a 9mm. With a highly precise shot placement adequate for deer or pigs. And yes, I’ve watched a few YouTube videos.
    I would suggest no less than a .45 (equivalent to a standard .45acp or .45Colt from a 5”handgun).

    The very best “silenced” .177-.22cal air rifles produce 88-90db or equivalent to an Arrow light duty stapler on hardwood. Hardly “silent”.
    Naw, I don’t know much about air guns.
    I just own 6. And 2 pistols.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  8. Ernie Bass

    Ernie Bass Member

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    . First of all, LOL I am the OP. Secondly you obviously have not been in he game for a long time.. The Best tuned Air Rifles are much less quiet than 88db in today's world. Your comparison using a Arrow Light Duty Staper in hardwood is OLD info. I I have a number of them that are much less quiet down to 78-81 db, so do not even begin to tell me what is out there. I have been testing informal DB rating out of Airguns for years. And YOU are way off about the cost of Airguns that were $600 years ago now $1200. . You do not have a idea about the shrouds now used on PCP's. Not even a clue.
    Why don't you simply watch some of the many video's From Jim Chapman that as been around for years with hunting videos and information and the ballistics of the PCP airguns they use and not just 357, before you go spouting off your ballistic knowledge of the 6 airguns you own. Now if you like, I will be more than happy to copy your post and you can join me and other air gunners to see what they have to say. There are many Air gun hunters taking down deer and Boar all the time, even much larger game. Spend some time learning.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  9. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    We tried to get the big bore air guns legal to use here in ny for deer, but they enjoy taking are rights away more.
     
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  10. Ernie Bass

    Ernie Bass Member

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    They have been trying to take Away Air guns for years. They get worst every day. That said, ammo is getting harder and harder to come by. Air Rifles are improving all the time. From Small calibers up to the Big Bore. As I mentioned in my original post, I will be looking for the right rifle, fill options etc. It will take awhile as some of the really nice rigs cost a bundle. Just like a lot of things, big upfront cost, but pays back slowly over time.
     
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  11. Ohen Cepel
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    Ohen Cepel Contributing Member

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    I was curious and so looked up the specs on the Bulldog in the video above. 800fps with a 145gr bullet, puts it around the same power of a .38 special. Not as much as I expected. Shot placement will be very important. I'm sure there are more powerful ones out there, Air Force comes to mind.
     
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  12. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    Not according to [email protected] decibel rankings

    According to the international journal of audiologists a suppressor on an airgun only reduces dB levels between 2.7db @350-500fps to 5.6db at 1,100fps. (Article: Are Airguns safe for indoor shooting). They recommend ear protection for guns exceeding 600fps...

    So, 88-2.7 = 85.3. Not exactly a whisper unless you’re profoundly deaf.
    Again, about like a stapler on hardwood. The WHO (yeah, I know...) state that prolonged exposure to above 75db long term will cause hearing loss.

    THANKYOU Owen. Thought I was talking to a deaf audience.

    BTW; An unsupressed .177 airgun at 1,100fps can go as much a 133db. Compared to as Remington 514 .22lr at 139db.

    Int J Audio. 2016 55 (Suppl 1): S51-S58.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  13. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    I've never gotten into air guns much but always had one around and love shooting them. For some reason most don't like for appreciate air guns, or do most know how long they have been used. I believe most think they were invented in the middle 20th century.

    I know lost of shooters say air guns will be there when guns are gone but it's foolish to think that. After guns are gone air will be next on the coping block the bows them swords knifes and so one.
     
  14. Ernie Bass

    Ernie Bass Member

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    I have been buying from Straight Shooters for as long as they have been open. And that chart they use as been around since I can remember.
    If you want a inexpensive way to see what a shroud can do, buy a TKO suppressor. When I say quiet, I am serious when I say the only think you can here is the trigger spring or perhaps the safety. Even in a neighborhood, the only sound any one will hear is the pellet hitting the target.
    I have custom tuned Springers that even without a suppressor, the sound is so low, you only hear a mild "Thump".
     
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  15. Ohen Cepel
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    Ohen Cepel Contributing Member

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    Well, I was curious enough to go to Pyramid and check the stats on the AirForce Texan. 147gr 45cal bullet at 1040fps. Bigger hole than the .357 but power about like a 38 SPC+P or a 9mm. Bit surprised as I thought they put out more than that given a lot of press they have gotten.

    I really enjoy air guns and had PCP's in the past but prefer the simplicity of a nice piston or springer. Also, the PCPs I had in .22 and .25 when I tested them with a db meter were much louder than suppressed .22's while also being quiet a bit less powerful than the .22LR.

    Biggest thing I have taken with a .22 air rifle was a rabid coon that had to go. It did the job but is much less forgiving on shot placement.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  16. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    Earnie, in your OP, you stated you were “NOT in the hunt for a PCP”
    Did you mean “NOW”.
     
  17. 748

    748 Member

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    You could get a suppressed, full auto 45 or 50 cal air gun mauled to your front door (in most states).
    I inherited my dads 25 cal gamo spring gun it's definitely louder than a 22CB out of a long gun or suppressed 22LR subsonic.
    Ballisticly it's almost as powerful as a 22LR subsonic. Shoots a little bit bigger and heavier projectile a few hundred FPS shy of a 22LR subsonic.
     
  18. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    Yep! 748; Most packages UPS, USPS, or FEDEX that get delivered (actually arrive!) are MAULED!
     
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  19. Ohen Cepel
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    Ohen Cepel Contributing Member

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    748,
    Are you sure those 25cal pellets are heavier than a .22?
     
  20. 748

    748 Member

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    Yeah.
    I had some that weighed less than 40gr but the 43gr and heavier were more accurate.
     
  21. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Crossbow, they seem to jump away from you and are quiet also get to reuse your “ammo”.
     
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  22. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    If you can find it.
     
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  23. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    Last time I was at the range there was a guy who had just bought a really nice air rifle. It was a big bore, and he was really snobby about it and how he could do anything with it that I could do with my AR that I was sighting in. Standing behind him I could see the bullets flight, and although impressive as an engineering accomplishment, it was not impressive on performance. He got good at smacking a gong at about 100 yards but literally everything I hit the gong with was louder which I take to mean more powerful. Seems to me that the best quiet and easy technology right now is either high end crossbows where range is limited or integrally suppressed muzzleloaders which seem to be a weird contraption intended solely for the purpose of avoiding NFA laws (and expensive). It’s great that technology is advancing in a small part of the shooting hobby, but from what I have seen, read, and heard the technology is not quite ready for mainstream hunting until there is at least one more major power upgrade through some sort of technological advancement.
     
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  24. Ernie Bass

    Ernie Bass Member

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    I have been to many Air Rifle events in the past decades as a Participant and to Big Bore competition as a spectator. I have never seen anyone come close to making a comment like they are equal to a AR in ballistics. I am now just starting to learn about Big Bore air Rilfes. I have quite a bit of knowledge about the 177 and 22. But a whole lot to learn about Big Bore ballistics. I plan on taking at least 6 months learning as much as possible and try to make it to more events that will feature them in competition and other shooting events and talk to the owners. I have a lot to learn.
    As far as crossbow. I will not be so lame as to comment about them one way or the other as I have never owned one, nor shot one. As far as hunting big game, they have been shooting Airguns for years, and NO not mainstream, but I would not call crossbow mainstream either.
    In my original post, I should have phrased it better. I have small calibers but looking at other Big Bore Rigs from 357-50mm and the advantages and disadvantages of the different rigs and calibers, not just for hunting but for target shooting as well. And there are many in the sport that actually do this for enjoyment.
    And there are many websites devoted to the Ballistics of the Big Bore Air Rifles. Maybe some of those folks would give you better answers to your post and show you comparisons. Very interesting info. The ballistics might surprise you in their performance.
    Regardless, If you have actually owned one, shot them, know about them, and do not find yourself suited for the sport that is NO problem.

    The main point I was alluding to was the fact that Center fire ammo is getting harder to come by and more expensive. There are alternatives to think about. Obviously Air guns are not for you and others. Continue to enjoy your powder burners in the years ahead. I hope we all can as well.

    As I mentioned. I am learning. Here is a good Website, and one of many.

    MR. HOLLOWPOINT

    https://www.mrhollowpoint.com/index.html
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
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  25. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    or impact a tree, I know where there is a broadhead inside and oak tree.
     
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