No safe place

[GEM]

Given some of our discussions on risk, this is an interesting piece on carry, when and where by a SME:

An Official Journal Of The NRA | No Safe Place

No one can predict when and where we might have to defend themselves from a criminal attack.

www.shootingillustrated.com

No Safe Place​

No one can predict when and where we might have to defend themselves from a criminal attack.​

by

• SHERIFF JIM WILSON

posted on July 6, 2024
NEWS, TIPS, SHERIFF JIM WILSON

Several quotes that caught my eye:

“I was only going down to the corner grocery, so I just dropped the little two-shot derringer in my pocket instead of my usual carry gun.​

.....​

When you bother to educate yourself, you realize that deadly encounters can occur anywhere and when we may least expect it. They occur in churches, parking lots, movie theaters, sporting events, the home and in fact, everywhere that people gather. And the victims are people from all economic levels, from poor to extremely wealthy.​

.....​

I don’t want to hurt feelings, but the person who says they will only carry their defense gun when they think they might need it is either a fool or is just playing at personal defense.​

​

When it comes to the folks who are just playing at personal defense, about all we can do is to continue to try to educate them. As for the rest of us, we remind ourselves and each other that no one can predict when and where we might have to defend ourselves from a criminal attack. ”​

I think this is a good read when we get posts about the nice neighborhood, etc. Now this isn't to restart the capacity arguments, just something to think about and perhaps to share with some about carry habits.

 

[Kleanbore]

Good article. I have always enjoyed Jim Wilson's stuff.

I think that we can reasonably assess, in general terms, the likelihood of a deadly encounter in different places, but we can never have any assurance that one will not occur. Considering the severity of the potential consequences, I think it pays to not tempt fate.

We know that the best way to survive an encounter unscathed is to avoid it. I do not enter our nearby, once thriving major city at all, if I can avoid it. I stay out of bars, and out of two nearby Walmart lots where we see people in cars cruising through observing other customers. A police officer we know who worked in the office of the Chief of a major department will not go to malls at all, and she carries a gun. I take that seriously.

We have found that online purchasing reduces our exposure. We bought our last television on line. We bought the one before that at an electronics store at a mall, and just as we left the store, police cars pulled over a car just outside, and officers with guns drawn arrested the couple in it. We walked to our car with elevated heart rates.

We go to medical facilities where I cannot carry, and I am limited to pepper spray. I do not combine those trips with stops at an ATM, an obvious oasis for predators. I've seen them there.

Our little street is very lightly travelled. I carry in the house and out, but if the surface outdoors is wet and the ambient temperature is near freezing, I leave the gun at home when I cross the street. I consider the the risk of injury that might be caused by falling on it to be the greater one.

That is what I do. Others may do differently. If our little street were frequented by bears, I might not leave the gun at home, though I have no desire whatsoever to deprive bear cubs of their mother if I can possibly avoid it. Also, I might well reconsider my choice of handgun.

*******

One other thing: no one has ever been able to explain to me why the likelihood of violence would have any effect on what I would need to defend myself, should violence occur. A wo- shot derringer, or a little single-action NAA revolver that I cannot shoot rapidly or handle well, would not be my choice at the ATM, or at a gas station--or anywhere else.

On capacity, I do not believe that I would be any more prepared carrying a big double-column pistol and extra magazines than with a gun I can handle that has adequate capacity. Of course, adequacy is a matter of judgment, and it will only be defined after the fact.

 

[JERRY]

The old sheriff is right.

 

[shafter]

What data doesn't indicate is the context of the shooting. We hear that armed men broke into someone's home but we don't get the rest of the story which is that the homeowner owed money for drugs, or that the victim was found cheating on his/her spouse, or that the victim instigated a road rage incident or a bar fight.

Context is important because when we look at the raw numbers we tend to think violence is everywhere and about to swallow us up. While it's true that violence is everywhere and random violence is hard to predict or prepare for, a good deal of violence is also very predictable and if you avoid situations where it is likely to appear you can dramatically reduce your chances of being involved.

 

[GEM]

Sure, you can avoid the big old street party, gang, disrespect shootout so common in urban venues. Can't really avoid the market or place of worship without being a hermit.

 

[TomJ]

I've experienced enough things I didn't expect, including being attacked, medical events which were statistically not suppose to happen, including those which resulted in the death of family and friends and things in my personal life which permanently changed my life that I don't count on the odds of something not happening to keep me safe. We average one murder every year or two in our county and little violent crime, and it's about as safe a place you'll find but the odds of something bad happening are not zero. I carry everywhere I'm legally able to and what I carry doesn't change because I think I somehow know when or where I may need to defend myself.

 

[JERRY]

I carry a gun because I'm a terrible gambler; and gambling with your life is exactly what you do every day.

Spare tire, fire extinguisher, seatbelts, locked doors, life insurance, medical insurance, dental insurance, gas generators for power outages, fenced yards, healthy lifestyles... are all things to put the odds in your favor.

 

[Jeff White]

Yes, violence can happen anywhere. Apparently a US Marshal shot a carjacking suspect outside of Justice Sotomayor's home in DC. I rather doubt she lives in the hood. That said there has to a reasonable balance between being prepared and the risk. Being armed is only a small part of being prepared. Being observant can make it unnecessary to use your weapon. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who will put themselves in a bad situation because they are armed. Don't let the "comforting feeling of the weight of your pistol" (as I've read it described in gun magazines} convince you stay in a bad place or ignore you gut feeling about something. or someplace. I can only think of one time I was somewhere off duty that made me feel glad that I was armed, I bought my gas and left as quickly as possible.

 

[dweis]

I carry 24/7 except when sleeping and the the EDC is on the nightstand. I carry in the home and outside it. I carry everywhere I am. My pistol is stocked at 15+1. I have 30 more on the belt. I live in a good neighborhood, but there are home invasions, robberies, assaults, muggings, and more. It's just less than some other locales. But less does not mean safer. I Nam I learned that safety I an illusion no matter on the battlefield or in a barracks on a highly protected base. Fate does not care what I or you think. Faye strikes without warning. The photo is my EDC setup. 46 rounds sounds like overkill, but the notion that the average encounter is resolved with 3 to 5 shots defies fate. What id you have to shoot and scoot to cover to exfiltrate or have to take on multiple shooters. I always replace probable illusions with possible realities.

 

[shafter]

Sure, you can avoid the big old street party, gang, disrespect shootout so common in urban venues. Can't really avoid the market or place of worship without being a hermit.

Shootings in the market or churches are extremely rare compared to other places where violence occurs

I'd never tell someone to not carry to the grocery store or church but way too many people go to church in small town USA as if they're going to an underground church in Pakistan waiting for a death squad to arrive.

 

[wayneinFL]

One other thing: no one has ever been able to explain to me why the likelihood of violence would have any effect on what I would need to defend myself, should violence occur. A wo- shot derringer, or a little single-action NAA revolver that I cannot shoot rapidly or handle well, would not be my choice at the ATM, or at a gas station--or anywhere else.

If there's a place that's relatively safe to go without carrying, I'm better off to not carry at all than to have a J frame in my pocket? Why does it have to be a full size pistol and two mags or nothing?

 

[Kleanbore]

Shootings in the market or churches are extremely rare compared to other places where violence occurs

Shootings are very rare everywhere.

And what about other forms of attack?

Don’t forget the parking lot,

 

[Kleanbore]

If there's a place that's relatively safe to go without carrying, I'm better off to not carry at all than to have a J frame in my pocket?

If it’s good enough in one place, it’s good enough in another.

Why does it have to be a full size pistol and two mags or nothing?

Eh?

 

[GEM]

Violence is most common in urban areas - we know that. However. houses of worship like schools are targeted by rampage shooters, which is a qualitatively different paradigm. Two in TX, Colorado, Tree of LIfe, Sikh temple, etc.

 

[CDW4ME]

I live in a "good area" (I really do).
However, it is less than 10 miles to what many would consider an area of "greater anticipated threat"
Potential threats are not immobile, if they don't have a vehicle they could steal one, ride a bicycle, take the bus (which would drop them off at the end of the street); it would be as easy for them to show up here as it is for me to go there.
Regardless of my location I want decent ASAP incapacitation potential, so a good 9mm HP minimum.

 

[JERRY]

One thing for sure about carrying a gun, if you are under attack you will never say that you wished you left it at home.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Sure, you can avoid the big old street party, gang, disrespect shootout so common in urban venues.

Unless it happens right next to your house.

My last house (in Cali) was on a street that had some multi-family dwellings as well as single-family. Unbeknownst to me, a guy in the fourplex two doors down was dating a girl who had formerly been dating a gangbanger. The gangbanger didn't like that so one afternoon he came with a few of his homies and waited around on the lawn of the fourplex for the guy to come home, whereupon they started shooting. One bullet went into the house across the street, right into the children's bedroom, thank G-d not hitting anyone. Police robo-called everybody to stay inside with doors and windows locked until further notice. They finally robo-called again hours later to say it was now safe to go outside.

When I bought the house the neighborhood was just a nice middle-class area.

 

[Bill_in_TR]

Given some of our discussions on risk, this is an interesting piece on carry, when and where by a SME:

Pardon my ignorance but what is an SME? I have searched through the entire acronym list and then googled it and got no answer that makes sense. People seem to assume an acronym is known by everybody. But I guess I am a dummy.

 

[Kleanbore]

Subject matter expert

 

[Bill_in_TR]

Subject matter expert

Thank you.

 

[jstert]

my humble routine includes a daily visit to a military facility for exercise where firearms possession (even locked in the car) is forbidden under pain of a felony. i often make a quick gas or milk stop on the way home. i must be unarmed for this daily routine and it bothers me. what once were relatively safe and sane areas are noticeably less so these days. at least my schedule is my own as a retiree.

 

[Kleanbore]

[Quoting from the article] I was only going down to the corner grocery, so I just dropped the little two-shot derringer in my pocket instead of my usual carry gun.

One score minus four years ago, I entered a small grocery that we frequent. The place is an a good area. It is about a mile from the police station; the nearest expressways are some distance away, with congested roads in between. No one in his right mind would....

But a couple of men diid decide to rob the place, and I walked in just as the balloon was about to go up. I had no safe way of extracting myself from the place, or I would have, with great haste.

I had a revolver in my pocket, and I moved to get a clear shot with a backstop.

I did not have to draw. The robber who had been eying the office where the cash was kept saw me moving, dropped the big soda bottle he was holding, and ran out. They "burned rubber". I was so shaken that I could describe neither the men nor their car.

I carry everywhere I'm legally able to and what I carry doesn't change because I think I somehow know when or where I may need to defend myself.

Good thinking.

What I do is decide whether I really want to go to a particular gocery. There are a some in our area that are that are extremely close to large, low-rent multi-family housing units, and some next to main thoroughfares that lead directly to a large high crime city not far away. i do not arm myself differently to go there--I do not go.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

It seems that between "de-institutionalizing" mental patients and scatter site housing -and drug use-there are few real "safe" spaces anymore..

 

[Rexster]

I do subscribe to the idea that it is a best practice to carry one or more defensive weapons, whenever and wherever legal and practical. I cannot know whether a bad guy has decided to come to my/our “nice part of town.”

Regarding what is practical, ”inconvenient” does not, in my opinion, equal “impractical.” It is never convenient or easy to carry a substantial weapon. If I am going to a medical facility, for treatment, for example, bringing a firearm with me is impractical, and, unless one is a sworn LEO, probably illegal as well.

I have never been obsessive about in-gun capacity, but agree that a two-shot derringer is not a wise choice of armament! This is not just due to the two-shot capacity, but derringers usually seem to have intolerable grip designs. (More on grip design, below.) If I am toting a five-shot weapon, it is probably not the only weapon I am carrying that day.

No place is “safe.” Some places are “less safe” than others, IMHO. I will ”up-gun,” depending upon the route, and the destination. On acreage owned by my mother, my brother has been fired upon, while walking the back of the property. On wooded land, owned by my wife’s family, poaching and arson have occurred. Unless one wants to surrender real estate, one had best to go substantially armed, in some places, while exercising one’s property rights. Here, “in town,” meaning metro Houston, Texas, there are places that could be considered the Valley of the Shadow of Death, including stretches of every Interstate Highway that passes through Houston. Preventative maintenance of one’s motor vehicle, to lessen the odds of a break-down, is the obvious priority, as is knowing where to AVOID making stops for fuel/food, but, yes, a duty-sized weapon is more important in some places than others.

I have, in general, wanted to carry a weapon that adequately “fills my hand.” I almost always carry a handgun with a grip frame that extends all the way to make firm contact with the “heel bone” of my hand. This is a matter of the length of the back strap, as well as the shape of the back strap not being too rounded. This facilitates getting an immediate, stable firing grip, and shot-to-shot recovery is enhanced. (Since late 2017, an additional reason is that the arthritis in my less-healthy right hand now DEMANDS that I no longer shoot duty/service level cartridges right-handed with any handgun with a short or too-rounded grip.) The factory grip of the Ruger SP101 is just long enough to meet this requirement. The back strap of the grip of the Glock G19, the darling of the internet, stage, and screen, is too SHORT for my hand, and, in the case of my right hand, produces visible injury, and pain, if I fire more than a very few rounds, during a training session. So, when I carry a Glock, it is a G17, not the smaller G19. I mostly train with a G17, so, that is the Glock I normally carry.

Actually, at my usual carry position of 0300 to 0330, I have noticed no real difference, in conceal-ability, between the G19 and G17. They are both blocky, so dressing around the protruding rear portion of the slide has been the challenge. If my cover garment is sufficiently voluminous to address the blocky slide, it is usually plenty enough to hide the G17-length grip. My Gen4 G19 pistols were getting so little carry time, that I traded-them away, in 2020. (I did decide to buy a ”replacement” G19, for lefty carry, in some few circumstances.)

I do have various ”baby” Glocks, but usually carry them as second weapons, positioned for lefty access.

If anyone has noticed that I am no longer talking about my beloved medium- and medium-large-frame DA revolving pistols, well, I did, indeed, recently, change my carry equation, due to aging hands. The differing dimensions and geometry of my smaller revolvers is keeping them relevant, at least for now.

 

[Resist Evil]

I'm 71 years old. I don't see how our culture and Liberty can be repaired enough in the time I have left for me to ever trust that a stranger or passer-by is not out to harm us. "It's not paranoia when they're actually out to get you" may have been a joke, but by my experiences, it's real to me. I am always armed as I am able and ready for the next time.