Non brass brass knuckles?

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theboyscout

theboyscout

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Living I florida I know that brass knuckles are illegal for carry, but recently I was searching some ed videos and I came across these lean knuckles. Its basically the same products as bullet proof glass formed into knuckle dusters. What do you think? Anyone know who to ask about carry these. I do have a ccw, if that makes a difference.

https://www.lexanknuckles.net
 
I’m no expert, but I would suspect that the prohibition, in a law enforcement/prosecutorial sense, would be based on functionality rather than the specific material. The same as if they were made out of steel, aluminum, wood, etc.

In other words, I wouldn’t want to be a test case.
 
Sometimes cops, juries and judges are in agreement: You wander around town late at night carrying a big screwdriver, a set of big ChannelLocks, a chisel and a hammer, you won't do well against being charged with carrying burglar tools.

Same sort of deal with non-brass knucks. It's all about the probabilities of your future actions. Hard to make folks believe you just bought this really neat paper-weight.
 
"knucks" made of any material aren't a prohibited item here in Florida - it's what you might do with them that will turn into a problem. They're illegal to have concealed on your person (misdemeanor) and if you use them to threaten or injure another then you're in felony territory....

Here's something you'd only learn if you worked on the street as a cop.... Any young (or not so young....) officer will come into contact with more than a few folks carrying a weapon of some sort and if they're concealed... the individual is holding a ticket to a bad evening. Most times, if nothing else is involved --- a simple warning is all that's involved (once again - provided nothing else is going on...). If you're involved in a minor altercation or even a fight (but one where no one was particularly injured...) you might also get a warning... maybe. Add a weapon on your person (knucks) and the equation changes very quickly... At least that's how I was taught - and that's what I practiced on the street for many years...

Knucks, saps, blackjacks, etc are best left at home - unless you're looking for a lot more excitement than I am....
 
G10 (glass epoxy) knuckles are sold as a Canadian Federal law rule "maximization" against even *possessing* metallic knuckles. (i.e. prohibited weapon).

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-462/FullText.html

Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 8
  • 15 The device known as “Brass Knuckles” and any similar device consisting of a band of metal with one or more finger holes designed to fit over the fingers of the hand.
Suspect if someone actually carried or used them they could get snared in other Canadian federal laws about carrying offensive weapons or weapons contrary to public peace.

Does provide an opportunity for vendors to sell a product...

https://www.canadaammo.com/product/detail/g10-knuckle/
 
All of it depends on how your local law is written. Most laws are written to cover any situation. I wouldn't count on the manufacturing material being a way out if you get caught with 'em in a place were brass knuckles are evil though.
"...bullet proof glass..." Lexan is a pricey polymer, not glass of any kind. Cost me $50Cdn years ago for a 1/4" x 2' x 3'(I think it was), piece to fix a sliding truck window. Lexan gets worked just like wood or any plastic. And yes I did pretend I had a bullet proof window. snicker.
 
I most certainly wouldn't want to be a test case in a weapons charge. That said, FL law looks pretty specific to me:
(1) Except as provided in subsection (3), a person who is not licensed under s. 790.06 and who carries a concealed weapon or electric weapon or device on or about his or her person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(2) Except as provided in subsection (3), a person who is not licensed under s. 790.06 and who carries a concealed firearm on or about his or her person commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(3) This section does not apply to:
(a) A person who carries a concealed weapon, or a person who may lawfully possess a firearm and who carries a concealed firearm, on or about his or her person while in the act of evacuating during a mandatory evacuation order issued during a state of emergency declared by the Governor pursuant to chapter 252 or declared by a local authority pursuant to chapter 870. As used in this subsection, the term “in the act of evacuating” means the immediate and urgent movement of a person away from the evacuation zone within 48 hours after a mandatory evacuation is ordered. The 48 hours may be extended by an order issued by the Governor.
(b) A person who carries for purposes of lawful self-defense, in a concealed manner:
1. A self-defense chemical spray.
2. A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes.​
(4) This section does not preclude any prosecution for the use of an electric weapon or device, a dart-firing stun gun, or a self-defense chemical spray during the commission of any criminal offense under s. 790.07, s. 790.10, s. 790.23, or s. 790.235, or for any other criminal offense.

Fla. Stat. Ann. § 790.01 (West)
Click to expand...
. . . .(2) “Concealed firearm” means any firearm, as defined in subsection (6), which is carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the firearm from the ordinary sight of another person.

(3)(a) “Concealed weapon” means any dirk, metallic knuckles, billie, tear gas gun, chemical weapon or device, or other deadly weapon carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the weapon from the ordinary sight of another person. . . . .
(13) “Weapon” means any dirk, knife, metallic knuckles, slungshot, billie, tear gas gun, chemical weapon or device, or other deadly weapon except a firearm or a common pocketknife, plastic knife, or blunt-bladed table knife. . . . .

Fla. Stat. Ann. § 790.001 (West)
Click to expand...
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
View attachment 762601 Customer of mine in Florida recently came in with one of these on her keychain. She claimed her LEO father gave them to her! Hope he's well connected with the DA's office.....
Click to expand...

In the link that Spats McGee posted it specifically mentions "metallic knuckles". That's not metallic. Might still be a problem I suppose but that is what it says.
 
They look cool and all, I get the appeal. But if you're going to be reaching into a pocket to slip a set of those on because you expect trouble, wouldn't you rather be wrapping your hand around the grip of a loaded gun? You have to get really close to use something like that, and putting it on before you know you need to defend yourself could look a little premeditated. Especially when gaining distance is not only preferable for your own well being, but probably a better legal footing should you end up in court.

An expandable baton might be a better option. The police uses them as a "non-lethal" force multiplier, and they can command a much larger defensive zone from knife attacks and such. Therefore keeping people out of arm's reach.

Knuckle dusters just scream bad intentions.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Hard to tell from the photo, but the example the girl came in with most certainly was some sort of aluminum or zinc alloy.
Click to expand...
I see. Those are different than the ones I've seen then. They sell ones that look very similar to that that are made out of hard plastic.
 
Frank Ettin said:
But I'm not going to bet the farm on a court concluding that it's not a deadly weapon.
Click to expand...
Agreed, especially in light of the following:
A deadly weapon is any instrument which will likely cause death or great bodily harm when used in the ordinary manner contemplated by its design and construction.

State v. Walthour, 876 So. 2d 594, 597 (Fla. Dist. Ct. App. 2004)
Click to expand...

As used in this statute, “other deadly weapon” has been defined by the courts to mean either 1) an “instrument which will likely cause death or great bodily harm when used in the ordinary and usual manner contemplated by its design and construction,” Robinson v. State, 547 So.2d 321, 323 (Fla. 5th DCA 1989), or 2) “an object which is used or threatened to be used during a crime in such a way that it would be likely to cause death or great bodily harm.” Butler, 602 So.2d at n.*. “An object can become a deadly weapon if its sole modern use is to cause great bodily harm.”

Holley v. State, 877 So. 2d 893, 896 (Fla. Dist. Ct. App. 2004)
Click to expand...
 
IIRC, wouldn't getting a Florida CCDW permit make this whole issue moot? My nonresident permit says "Concealed Weapon or Firearm License," and all of the restrictions in Florida law against weapons of whatever type are prefaced by "... a person who is not licensed under s. 790.06..."

Get the permit, carry your Lexan knuckles, some brass knuckles, a slungshot, a blackjack, and a pistol if it pleases you.
 
Interesting that the law specifically excludes plastic knives. I've seen some pretty wicked plastic knives.
 
Well........"I was in fear for my life so I was forced to discharge my firearm." sounds waaaaaaay better to a jury than "I was in a fistfight with a guy who was bigger than me, so I had to bust him upside the head with my (knuckles/baton/baseball bat/knife)."
Many people have a deep psychological aversion to hand to hand combat-and melee fighting weapons in general. The fact that you were carrying one means (in their minds) that you were looking for a fight.
A CCW is not for fighting, its for KILLING. IMO, its a lot easier to convince a jury that you, the upstanding citizen you are, were not cruising around looking for someone to kill- but that events forced you to use deadly force.
 
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As a practical matter, after being on the scene of quite a few fights involving weapons of one sort or another (with injuries ranging from minor to death dealing) it was rarely ever very hard to figure out whether one party or the other was the aggressor - if there were witnesses (independent - unrelated to either side of the encounter) present when the incident occurred... Who had the weapon was certainly a factor -but the actions on each side were the determining factor as to who (if anyone) ended up getting charged...

I must say that I was fortunate enough to work in an environment that was mostly suburban and that big city political decisions (except for incidents involving officers...) were rarely much of a feature in the charging decision process. This was in south Florida, Dade county, during the height of the "cocaine cowboy era". Depending on where you live these days - that might not always be the case - from what I've seen in published reports - but was certainly the case in my era....
 
theboyscout said:
Living I florida I know that brass knuckles are illegal for carry, but recently I was searching some ed videos and I came across these lean knuckles. Its basically the same products as bullet proof glass formed into knuckle dusters. What do you think? Anyone know who to ask about carry these. I do have a ccw, if that makes a difference.

https://www.lexanknuckles.net
Click to expand...
They have hard plastic brass knuckles that are made from a 3d printer. I held a set. They are very light and hard as hell. They could do some damage. I questioned the store owner about their legality and he said, because of the material they are legal.
 
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