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Non-firearm weapons- who trains with their BODY?

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by FL-NC, Feb 22, 2019.

  1. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    This isn't one of my usual threads, but it came on like a light bulb this morning to me. I'm curious if anyone here trains regularly in any type of martial arts? It seems to me that many assaults will come as a surprise attack, with either physical confrontation or at least the threat of such. Weapons and multiple attackers may or may not be involved. The first indication of "trouble" may be a punch to the face.
    During my years in the "gun club", we trained regularly (but probably not enough) in various forms of "martial fisticuffs". Bruises and enlarged lips were a regular part of life. The systems evolved over the years: LINE, Dieter, SPEAR, MACP, and others. I also wrestled and did jiu-jitsu for several years. Naturally, our other physical training activities were also a daily thing. When this is your "normal", someone taking a swing at you, or finding yourself rolling on the ground with an attacker doesn't make you feel so much like a "fish out of water". Going "hands on" with enemy personnel at different levels was also fairly "normal" on deployments. But, if the last time you participated in such activity was a scrap in high school or boxing at the Y decades ago... see my point?
    I recently (as the result of a New Year's resolution) increased my physical training schedule, primarily to improve my fitness level: running 2-3 miles and some weight training Mon, Wed, Fri, and MMA training at a local gym Tues and Thurs nights (along with my weekly range session).
    So, how is the MMA going? Pretty well, all things considered. The re-introduction of the physical requirements needed to sustain any fight for any period of time hit pretty hard (not as hard as my training partner's fists though). Also the level of deterioration of my previously acquired skills was fairly evident. Yes, most everyone there is younger than me (I'm 51) and more experienced, so it may look like I'm just paying $ to have some youngsters beat the crap out of me, with me getting a few lucky shots and submission moves in from time to time. It looks like that because that is PART of what is happening. What else is happening is learning by doing. My techniques are improving at a reasonable rate, all things considered. I'm training with people at a higher skill and experience rate- TRAINED fighters who do this at least as much or more than I do. If nothing else, after 2 months of this activity I have accomplished the state of relative "normalcy" of having a swing thrown at me, or someone jumping on me, getting in my face and grabbing me, etc.- and the actions to take at that time- not to mention more awareness of things like my effective range of striking, kicking, and so on.
    Is anyone else here training regularly in unarmed combat? I would like to hear any input from current or former LE on the subject.
     
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  2. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    Used to.

    Was real serious for years about getting my black belt, and being proficient with a stick.

    Now I am 70, infirm, with multiple things wrong. But I still think I can hold my own with a stick but not with my fists.

    Don't want to find out.That is why I carry a 1911
     
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  3. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    OP, I'm a little older than you, but not long ago made the same commitment. I've tried to be a life-long practitioner of some form of martial arts and physical training. Two thrashed knees and both shoulders have made my aerobic routine pretty much restricted to an elliptical, long walks and hikes with dogs, limited my alpine and water skiing to a few times a year and occasional hoops with the fellas at the Y when the knees aren't acting up. Still lift three times a week, can't do squats anymore, though.

    I boxed from ages 13 - 19 and again for a couple years in the military; briefly did some Tai Kwon Do, but have for past thirty-five years done military and law enforcement hand-to-hand stuff, baton training, defensive tactics, and for several years (when it became trendy) studied Krav Maga until we moved to the sticks and didn't have a trainer close enough.

    Pretty much nowadays it's all defensive and control tactics through work and I sure notice if I haven't been keeping up with the workouts. Would love it if there was a good studio or dojo convenient to my area, for sure, because you are right, nothing simulates actually getting hit or thrown to the mat.
     
  4. scaatylobo

    scaatylobo Member

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    Just turned a B'day to 71 -------------- yea freakin SEVENTY ONE !.

    I recall all too vividly turning 25 and earning my black belt in a VERY hard Goju style school in NYC.

    Then onto Jeet Kune Do systems and a bit of Wing Chun.

    Now with 2 replaced knees and a total shoulder,I am VERY happy to get a round in with a heavy bag,and a very VERY light spar with those who know my limitations.

    One of my biggest fears is breaking a body part if its used as an impact weapon.

    I used to break a concrete block,LOL = now I might carry one as a weapon.

    I try VERY hard to avoid conflict that will lead to violence as that can very well lead to deadly force.

    But to answer the OP,yes I still train with stick & blade at home on the bag.

    As well as the stated above bit I do = PRAYING that I don't find out how good I am [ or are not ].

    forgot the bit of Gracie juijitsu that I got in prior to the joints giving out [ kind of a bit of MMA ground & pond ].
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  5. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    Seeing how much this site is a stickler for staying on GUN related topics it'll be interesting to see if this stays open.

    That being said I practiced Okinawan Kempo for a few years in HS and a little after. Always wanted to get into BJJ and do some MMA type training but never did.

    I've managed to stay out of scuffles so far and plan on continuing to do so.
     
  6. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    I am a graduate of the Army Combatives School. That is the most my martial training has progressed. That was 15 years ago.

    Two years ago, I decided I was out of shape so I started strength training with weights. I have kept at it a few times a week and initially lost 30 lbs but I am up 15 since in what I assume is muscle. Anyway, I have strength on my side more so than ever. I believe in taking care of my body. I know it makes me a better shooter. I can control my heartbeat better and recover my breath faster after strenuous activity. I hunt in some rough terrain (that I purposely seek out) and being in shape from weights and the occasional 3 mile jog makes those hunting treks a lot easier though it still wears me out. Don't know how I could do it otherwise.
     
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  7. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    I read some where that Krav Maga is hebrew for "beat the crap out of it until it literally craps".

    No more than dry fire is just as good as live fire.
     
  8. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    I originally posted this in non-firearm weapons, but the mods decided it would be better here.
     
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  9. jeepnik

    jeepnik Member

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    Sounds just like me. When I was younger I studied stick fighting. I can’t move like I did then. I sometimes need a cane. I realize now that when young I wasn’t as likely a target as I am now. That earlier training has left me with skill to employ the cane as a defensive weapon.
     
  10. shafter

    shafter Member

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    Unarmed combat is a very neglected aspect of self defense because it involves physical fitness, and far too many people don't have the inclination for that.
     
  11. WrongHanded
    • Contributing Member

    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    I once trained 3 times a week at Gracie Jiu Jitsu. But some of those MMA wannabes just don't know how to go less than 100%, and I decided getting injured was counter-productive to working the job that paid for the training. After a few years, I was done.

    But it's amazing what a person can retain over the years. No, I don't remember how to flow into an omoplata from a failed triangle, from a failed mounted arm bar. But I remember how to take and keep a position, and how to protect myself on the ground.
    And that's a whole lot of what grappling really is.

    Learning some hand-to-hand in never a waste of time.
     
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  12. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Actually something like "contact battle". :)
     
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  13. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    I've dabbled in MACP, Krav, and BJJ. Might could be doing more of that.

    For the moment, it seems like my bucket is full enough just trying to keep on top of my fitness in a way that I don't abhor. For the last few years that's been trail running. Even if it's at the expense of my hand-to-hand skills, it's time well-spent since it keeps my uncomfortable (cold, wind, rain, wadi crossings, etc) and connected to nature. For where I'm at in life, that's more important for my physical and mental wellbeing.
     
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  14. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    Firearms are just one facet of self defense. You're more likely to be involved in a confrontation requiring less than lethal force unless you live someplace like Somalia.

    Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground laws are good. You don't have kill everybody though. Every confrontation is not solved with a gun. Sometimes you need one though and that option should never be taken away.
     
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  15. Mikhail Weiss

    Mikhail Weiss Member

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    Hmm. TKD, JKD, FMA. Long ago, when my joints still worked.
     
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  16. Kendahl

    Kendahl Member

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    I'm 5' 5", overweight at 170 pounds and 73 years old. I have never been interested in sports and have never played a contact sport like football. In my late thirties, I studied tae kwon do for three years and advanced to first degree black belt. Even then, there were guys bigger, heavier and younger who, as white belts, could have taken me out in seconds. My skills were no match for the strength, speed and coordination they already possessed. (There's a reason why boxing, wrestling, etc. have so many weight classes.) In my opinion, the only people who should consider martial arts for self defense are guys who, as linemen in high school football, regularly knocked opposing players flat. The best "martial art" for the rest of us is a can of pepper spray.
     
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  17. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm 5'6" maybe 120 but was known as a crazy to be avoided:evil:
     
  18. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    I'm 5'6" and 165, and have been since I can remember. I joined the army 32 years ago, same height and about 155. I've been tuned up by men smaller than me, but I've left more than a few big boys regretting their choices. Not bragging, it just things that have happened. Also, remember that on the street, you may be facing an experienced fighter, but not necessarily a trained fighter, much less a trained fighter who continues to train. Things like attacking those who one sees as vulnerable, sucker punching, and the like don't count as training.
     
  19. SharpDog

    SharpDog Member

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    All I can say is that I have most other folks out-gunned if you believe bigger bore diameter wins (my body that is) :(
     
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  20. 10mm Mike

    10mm Mike Member

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    I used to train quite abit. Started out in college with Judo and Aikido. Then moved on to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Kickboxing. Then took many years off since I was focused on my professional career post college. Got pretty soft and out of shape as a result so I decided to start lifting weights and started doing Krav Maga. Got in really good shape... maybe the best of my life considering how strong I was due to weight lifting. Then dropped Krav Maga and went back to kickboxing since I liked it more. Then I got married and quit working out and am back to being soft and out of shape :)

    Word of advise for anyone considering training: even though kickboxing and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu were my favorites (and the most effective), I still usually recommend Krav Maga for someone looking to get into self defense and a really good workout program. The reason is because its curriculum is really broad and contains many different aspects (gun defense, knife fighting, punching, kicking, ground work, etc...). It is very much a, "jack of all trades, master of none" martial art. The downside then, is if you ever run into someone that knows what they're doing, ie. former high school wrestler, amateur boxer, etc... you're going to get your clock cleaned. But the odds of that are pretty small unless you go around looking for fights.
     
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  21. Jake38

    Jake38 Member

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    I have never been apart of any formal training but I am aware of certain simple tactics when it comes to unarmed defense.

    1) Keep your arms near your face in order block any strikes in case you are unable to dodge them.

    2) Have you legs in a position that allows you to pivot with ease.

    3) Know where to kick/strike. A swift kick to the back of the knee cap would be very effective. The nose, throat, and center chest are also sensitive areas of the body.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  22. NoirFan

    NoirFan Member

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    I’m 34 years old and I’ve been training and sparring in a boxing gym for the past five years or so. I think the biggest benefit from a self defense perspective is it teaches you how to stay calm and make decisions under pressure. The biggest difference between experienced guys and novices at our gym is not necessarily power or speed but relaxation and smoothness - the experienced guys can keep moving and executing the plan even after getting decked, whereas the novices tense up and almost seem to become paralyzed. Sparring also cultivates a sense of “confident humility” which comes from knowing exactly how tough you are … and aren’t. That attitude helps to defuse a lot of potential casual violence situations.

    Not to mention all that roadwork makes you a lot better at running away from a fight.
     
  23. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    Agree with you 100%. What are your general thoughts regarding my theory of the advantages of "normalizing" physical confrontations in the gym, so that when it happens on the street, it's not such a "learning curve"?
     
  24. NoirFan

    NoirFan Member

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    Well I’ve never been attacked outside the ring in my adult life so I can’t say for sure, but I have been able to defuse a few street fights before hands were thrown. I do agree with you on the concept though. Considering many attacks open with an ambush or sucker punch it’s important to be able to fight through the shock and adrenaline dump.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
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  25. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Member

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    I kind of think the most useful martial arts training I ever got was being popped in the face a few times by another amateur with heavy gloves. Most of us are fortunate enough to never be the recipient of violence in our lives, and childhood fighting is much less frequent now, so being in a ring with someone trying to hit you can be a very enlightening experience if you're like me and had never had someone seriously try to hit you before that.
     
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