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Non lethal ways of defending against dogs

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by Ford4x4, Jul 4, 2013.

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  1. Ford4x4

    Ford4x4 Member

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    In the past few weeks about every other time I've been out with my dog, she has been attacked. She's a very obedient dog and I require her to be submissive to other dogs and people, as this generally de-escalates the situation when someone's unleashed, untrained dog runs up while hiking or biking.

    So, the first solution is to avoid the areas with large concentrations of irresponsible people and their dogs. However, I do enjoy mountain biking and hiking, with my dog, and am not willing to quit that. I'm thinking that a good shot of bear or pepper spray would discourage most of these dogs, and maybe pulling it out and instructing the owner to get control of their animal or I'll spray would work. I do carry concealed hiking and biking, but I'm not discharging my weapon unless I feel my life is in danger. However, at $20-40 a can this stuff isn't cheap when I might use a can or two a month, and I figure the cheaper stuff probably isn't worth much. Anyone have any recommendations?

    I fully believe this to be an owner problem not a dog problem. Certain breeds have a propensity to attack both animals and people but the owner is responsible for their behavior. If you can't control them, put them on a leash, and if you still can't, don't bring them out in public.

    A little back story if anyone cares to read:

    However, twice recently she's been attacked. The first time was a guy walking with his unleashed, very large wolf hybrids (the entire county has a leash law). The larger one ran up and attacked, but wasn't really serious about it fortunately. He managed to pull the male off, but the other one was trying to get around me to my dog. The guy takes off up the trail dragging the one dog, with the other one still trying to get at my dog. I was amazed at the irresponsibility of this, and should have called authorities. What if it had been one of the many little kids on the trail?

    Second time was this morning, bike riding, my dog following along perfectly, and five little yappy dogs run out and attack. I kind of wish mine had fought back, as she could have broken their necks, but she just stayed with me as I unsuccessfully tried to get on by. The owner came out and beat them all off.

    Here's a picture of her. She's an Australian shepherd, border collie, heeler mix. I've had her since she was 8 weeks old. She's fairly small and very lean built, but is a great dog. She can do a 10 mile loop with me on the bike in 45 minutes, tops out at about 28 miles an hour, and is very obedient and smart. I'd love to get her on some cows or sheep.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    Use a pepper stream. That way, you can get the most distance, with less chance of accidentally spraying your buddy.

    If the dog is known to be aggressive and is off-leash, they're already breaking the law. You have no duty to warn- light 'em up. You might be saving that dog's life.

    Cute dog.
     
  3. AJumbo

    AJumbo Member

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    I second the pepper stream; it has the added benefit of making the the offending dog's owner miserable in the bargain.
     
  4. GCBurner

    GCBurner Member

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    As dogs tend to reflect their owner's personality, save some pepper spray to fend off the angry owner after you spray his dog.
     
  5. rjrivero

    rjrivero Member

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  6. glistam

    glistam Member

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    +1 stream pepper spray. And you don't have to get a huge expensive bear spray can. Really it's all the same stuff (unless it's that citronella junk). 4 oz cans are fine as long as it's good name brand stuff.
     
  7. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    I've had surprisingly good luck with this item, but it obviously has its limitations.

    http://www.amazon.com/Dog-Dazer-II-Ultrasonic-Deterrent/dp/B000IBRI2Y

    It won't work on deaf dogs and will make your dog uncomfortable too. On the upside, it does no damage at all to the animals and unlike the sprays--all discomfort ends immediately as soon as the dog breaks off the attack and you let up on the button.

    For best effect, you need to wait until the dog is very close to maximize the surprise factor. I'd want to have pepper spray (or some other backup strategy) available...
     
  8. Deltaboy1984

    Deltaboy1984 Member

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    Cold Steel Shambok.
     
  9. alaskanativeson

    alaskanativeson Member

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    I had a Principal who had a pitbull, one of the sweetest and most loving dogs you'd ever know. To people. To other dogs, he saw females as pleasure toys (willing or no) and males as satanic invaders who must be destroyed at any and all costs. This is fairly characteristic of pits.

    His solution? A cattle prod. Something similar to this.
     
  10. DNS

    DNS Member

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    Strange as it sounds I've heard from meter readers that umbrellas work great to make an aggresive dog keep its distance.

    Open, close, repeat...
     
  11. scchokedaddy

    scchokedaddy Member

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    Spray bottle, the kind you can adjust to stream, half water half amoniia. Works real good, I use it when bike riding. Doesn't do any damage but learns them quick. I usually let them get close then right to the face.:)
     
  12. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    I can second the umbrella trick (I've known more than one mailman, the on-foot, door to door kind that relied on them). If you're going to have one make sure it's the folding, compact, kind with a strong spring opening feature. Once deployed you can close and repeat or just keep it as a barrier between you and the aggressive dog.

    Years ago the SRT team on my department ran into more than one bad actor that deliberately kept an aggressive dog to slow any entry into where they were doing business. Our team had the entry man as their dedicated "adios fido" guy. We were pretty hard on dogs with a very short barrelled 12 in the entry man's hands. Funny thing, most of the team members were dog owners themselves and didn't look forward to having to kill any dogs - but they did take care of business...
     
  13. j1

    j1 Member

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    Sir you have a pretty dog. Buy a can of wasp and bee spray, the kind that shoots a twenty foot stream. That should deter almost any dog and most people. It costs a few dollars per can. Good luck.
     
  14. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    Yes, but it can also be illegal to use for this situation.

    OP, stick with some pepper spray.
     
  15. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator

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    Yeah, good luck.

    Federal crime. Serious felony, high criminal penalties for misuse (even the death penalty), plus big, big civil penalties levied by the USG if the evidence doss not meet the BARD standard.

    No statutory provision for a defense of justification. You are entirely at the mercy of the Assistant US Attorney.

    Under state codes, it constitutes the use of deadly force.

    Don't even think about it.
     
  16. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    The OP is trying to avoid inflicting serious damage, which is ethical and legal. Wasp killer would be neither.
     
  17. glistam

    glistam Member

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    Umbrella trick definitely works. Even the meanest angriest dog's reaction is "Whoa where did this giant octogon come from?!"
     
  18. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    No, NO, NO



    We live in a rural pocket surrounded by the 'burbs on 3 side (lake on the 4th). The dogs in the neighborhood will cross into each other's property from time to time and play, but when a new one is adopted and not introduced to the others or is a dog aggressive sort we get dog fights. I've broken up a couple of these with pepper spray when the son of my buddy "next door" has gotten some tough dog that comes onto our property and ours get into a tussle with him. Sure it hits all of them, but it stops the fight instantly and I don't have to concentrate it on the face/eyes to make them stop. One big Ousssh! and they're apart and the tough dog is headed home with his tail between his legs and mine are headed to the showers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2013
  19. jeepnik

    jeepnik Member

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    Before pepper spray came about, I would carry a water bottle on by bike loaded with ammonia. One good squirt in the face and they will never chase your bike (likely any bike) again. Just make sure you don't grab the wrong bottle for a drink.:barf:
     
  20. Deltaboy1984

    Deltaboy1984 Member

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  21. Cooldill

    Cooldill Member

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    Pepper stream.

    Like someone else said the owner will have a time with there pup all covered in capsaicin and might think twice about letting there mean dogs get loose.
     
  22. j1

    j1 Member

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    I wonder if wasp and bee spray would be illegal if you or your dog were being attacked. The circumstances dictate the actions appropriate to the situation.

    PS. This is really an excellent and appropriate post. Thanks for posting. We live in the country on a dirt road and people sometimes do not control their dogs. It is a tense situation as a strange dog runs up to you while you are walking your dog, on a leash. Appropriate and legal defense in my opinion depend on many things.
     
  23. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator

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    Under federal law, it may be used on bees and wasps or in research--period.
     
  24. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    j1,

    There are a couple of important facets to this question. The one I'll focus on is that the OP is trying to follow the principle of inflicting the least harm possible for his canine friend and he to escape the situation. Insecticide in the eyes is likely to cause permanent damage. If the OP didn't care about that, he would likely be justified in drawing his sidearm and just shooting to protect his dog (depending on laws in his area).

    You're right, appropriate and legal can depend on many things. In my experience, a quick blast of OC will dissuade a dog without serious injury to you or the dog.

    John
     
  25. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    j1, it would come down to proving intent. It isn't common for someone walking their dog to carry wasp spray due to worrying about wasps. If you were to carry it and actually have to go to court for one reason or another after using it and say that you had it to spray unruly dogs, then yes, you very well could be in trouble; even if you were being attacked.
     
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