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North and South

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by MagnumDweeb, Oct 13, 2008.

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  1. md7

    md7 Member

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    i don't think it is a north/south issue. i am from mississippi and have friends in wisconsin that enjoy shooting and owning firearms as much as anyone i have ever met in mississippi.

    were it not for milwaukee and madison, the state of wisconsin would pro gun. so it is a regional thing within the state. or it seems like it to me.
     
  2. Big Matt

    Big Matt Member

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    ByAnyMeans:
    You are correct in that my statements were a pretty sweeping generalization but I will stand by them, based on my experience with dealing with most of the NYer's that moved here.

    Again not everyone is the same but here's what happens 95% of the time: they move here because they love the idea of a quaint country style of life, the fall leaf colors, the "exotic" wildlife (deer/bear/turkeys), the affordable housing, the typically lower crime rates, and less population for a simple starter list. I think it sounds correct so far.

    Then after some minor period of time passes, say a couple of weeks to a month or so the following occurs: they can't get their 24 hour Chinese food delivery, no "real' delis/coffee shops/restaurants/pizza joints/nightlife, the animals get in their trashcans or they hit one with their car, they don't have mass public transportation, they don't have a cop on every corner, no public water/sewer in the country, no sidewalks/redlights on the backroads, no boys/girls club or other urban activities for the kids; and suddenly the area doesn’t seem quite so wonderful.

    So then to save us hillbillies/rednecks/local trash (or whatever else they refer to us as) from our own obvious foolishness they demand the items listed above that they don’t have, don’t need, and can’t afford anyway. Meanwhile the area’s population continues to grow, traffic only gets worse and worse, and the NYer’s continue the influx unchecked. They have no problem paying $450,000 for a 5000 sq. ft. home on 1/3 acre approx 25 feet from their closest neighbors; after all most came from parts of the city where 1/3 acre lots would have skyscrapers/apartment buildings on them. Then they wonder why their taxes go up?

    Now, of course there’s plenty of stereotypical items listed. Do I think all NYer’s are the same? No, of course not. I even have friends/business partners/associates from “the city.” But ask any local in the Stroudsburg area about my generalizations and they will agree. And being here 10 or 15 years doesn’t make one a local. Try 7 to 10 generations. I hope I didn’t offend you as I only wanted to let you know what I was trying to relate. Feel free to discuss further or PM me if this has travelled too far off topic.
     
  3. Vermont

    Vermont Member

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    I think it is a mistake to look at the issue as North versus South. It only serves to artificially divide us. When your state has gun laws as good as Vermont's let me know.


    I also think it is completely unfair to say that people who are anti-gun are anti-American and equivalent to Nazi's. I don't think most gun control advocates think it is wrong to defend yourself. Rather, they believe that they can get rid of guns, and that by doing so they will remove the need to defend yourself in the first place. I think that they are mistaken in that belief, and I'm sure you do, too. But fundamentally, I think they want to prevent violent crime, just like us. That goal is not anti-American, and certainly should not be equated with the murder of 12 million people.
     
  4. toivo

    toivo Member

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    Interesting thread. A few observations:

    --I think the divide isn't as much North/South or liberal/conservative as it is urban/rural. Urban people tend to associate guns with crime and nothing else.

    --The real problem isn't the belief itself, but the self-righteousness that makes some people try to force their belief on everyone else. I call it the Jackass Messiah Complex. It starts with an assumption of moral superiority. It has nothing to do with facts.

    --I grew up in New York State, about an hour and a half north of New York City. When I was a kid, shooting rats at the dump was a common practice. Now it would get you locked up. Nevertheless, some people around here still shoot recreationally and hunt. There are private and public ranges. The shooting sports are not defunct yet.
     
  5. RaisedByWolves

    RaisedByWolves member

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    I would have phrased it differently, but I know why he wants to.;)




    One of my neighbore would freak if they saw me with things laid around or carried out outside, the rest would say......Hi Eric!


    .
     
  6. Colt46

    Colt46 Member

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    I'd agree with Toivo

    I think it's pretty much an urban/rural kind of mindset. People that live in cities rely on a whole alphabet soup of agencies to provide everything from protection to waste disposal for them. The thought of actually being responsible for their own problems is kinda foreign to them.
     
  7. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    OPer "Just some things some folks say that don't make no sense to us Americans."

    So if I'm from the north I'm not an American?

    My father fought (and was wounded) in WWII, I served in the military in the Viet Nam era. My parents bought me my first gun when I was 12. I'd like to add that I hunt. I also swore to uphold the constitution when I was sworn in as a peace officer.

    I thought I was an American, silly me. But I'm from NY, so I guess I don't qualify.

    Were you ever in the military? If you were, maybe you might remember what the drill sargeant used to tell you to do with your head and where to remove it from.

    Moderators, this is offensive and certainly not High Road.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2008
  8. ezypikns

    ezypikns Member

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    If anyone needed any more proof that New Yorkers belonged to America....

    9/11 should have ended those doubts.

    No place has a monopoly on jackasses.
     
  9. md7

    md7 Member

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    toivo,

    i agree that it is more of an urban/rural divide. and that isn't to say that all urban folks are anti. it would be fair to say that the majority are anti though.

    i think maybe it is a cultural difference as well. in rural mississippi and most other rural parts of the US, most everybody hunts, most every little boy starts off on a .22 and pump shotgun, and practically everybody keeps a pistol in their vehicle, or on themselves. it is just so normal to use and keep guns around. it is as natural as going to the store to buy milk for alot of rural people. this was the way most of us were raised. i don't know why, it just was and still persists.

    folks that live in urban areas probably don't have many places to shoot, and because of that, there was and is little interest in learning about firearms. most urban folks i know don't hunt, most haven't been properly educated about firearms, or firearms safety, and what they do learn, they mostly get from television shows or the news. they were brought up without guns so they don't know any better.

    i think that MOST urban folks have never been around guns, and see no use for them. therefore they don't know about guns. and we know what people fear. they fear what they don't know or understand.

    Any way, that is all just a theory. it could be 100% crap. i dunno, but i think toivo was right about it being a rural/urban divide. and the above is my hypothesis for why that could be.
     
  10. girvin02

    girvin02 Member

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    I agree with the poster from Texas; Why on earth would you want that many armed people walking around at a BBQ. I know that when my friends and I get together for a cook out, we like to throw back a few beers - not a good idea when you're carrying a loaded firearm.
     
  11. BBQLS1

    BBQLS1 Member

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    Not everybody thinks or does as you do. IMO, it's their right, let them.
     
  12. wcwhitey

    wcwhitey Member

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    Personally I wouldn't give you a nickel for any plot in Florida, never met a real southerner there anyway, a few rednecks maybe, but not anybody with real southern manners. But hey I am just an arrogant NY'er that knows nothing about guns or barbecue. Now that we have all insulted each other we can have a reasonable debate.

    Seriously, I live on Long Island and work the City. I grew up here when you could throw your shotgun over your shoulder walk to the water and go duck hunting. If you wanted to go blasting you could pull off the side of the road to an empty woods and shoot whatever you want. Land was everywhere, the roads leading to the early developments were dirt. Until the last few decades everyone had guns, every member of my family has a pistol license, it was common and not hard to get. New York City was not that bad a few years ago either, pistols were always hard but rifles and shotguns were not regulated things until the late 80's. Still quite a few people maintain their rifle/shotgun permit and enjoy shooting and hunting, it's not all internet lore. But it is mostly all gone now, the open land and the free spirit.

    Along the way I lived in Virginia for quite a few years, late 80's, reminded me of the Long Island of old. People were nice and polite, did quite a lot of dove hunting, fishing and deer hunting. Went there recently (Great Bridge, Chesapeake) and found it way to overdeveloped, things being built faster than it took for the concrete to cure. Not the same anymore, I am sure there attitudes are slipping as well.

    I own a house in North Carolina close to two of my life long friends. We have enjoyed each others company over the years and have spent many hours discussing our differences in background and philosophy. Other than the obvious accent there is not much difference between us. Of course being friends we took the time to learn each others idiosyncrasies. It is where I am going to retire in a few years.

    Just wanted to make the point that your jerky neighbor does not represent all of New York. Most ribs are served here by the rack or half rack, not a felony mistake. In the suburbs we talk to our neighbors, don't take lightly to them coming uninvited but we try to maintain a rapport. As a last point, even though New York is such a crime ridden cesspool, unlike Jacksonville, we conceal our guns at a friendly get together out of respect for the person that does not share our love for weaponry. C'mon man it ain't the State Fair and you ain't a Texan. BBQ guns are a western thing, has nothing to do with being Southern.

    Respectfully submitted, Bill

    P.S. I served my country, I now serve my city, I was there when the bricks and dust were flying on 9/11/01. Just punching my American ticket!
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2008
  13. HoosierQ

    HoosierQ Member

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    This "all yankees are alike" kind of thing is kinda bogus there Magnum. Yeah we got New York and Chicago and Boston sure. But we also have Indiana, Vermont, Maine, Michigan, and New Hampshire ("Live Free or Die" for crying out loud)...places where everybody has grown up around guns.

    Sorry man, your thing doesn't fly. We "2nd Ammendment Yankees" would certainly agree that down south, the attitude about guns is where we'd like it. You just need to adjust your view of us up here...speaking for the Hoosier state, we appreciate our firearms and our right to keep and bear them just like "y'all".
     
  14. Mike J

    Mike J Member

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    Something else to consider-Most rural people tend to want guns around more (I believe largely due to the fact that they know the closest help is a long way away). Whatever happens you know you have to deal with it or not.
    Something else interesting I've noticed-most NY transplants I have known ,whether from the City or upstate, buy & enjoy having guns when they come South.
    And lastly there are a lot of gun laws still on the books in my home state (Georgia) that are carry overs from the Jim Crow days that I would still like to see gotten rid of. It could be a lot better.
     
  15. 3KillerBs

    3KillerBs Member

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    I'm a yankee even though I now live in the south (you all wouldn't stop being rebels if you moved north, right? ;) ), and even when I lived in Taxachusetts I knew plenty of people who used and loved guns -- though the laws being what they were it was mainly long guns of various sorts.

    Thing is, the rich lefties in Boston had all the political power while the working-class folks on the farms and in the small towns were too scattered to make much difference (not to mention too busy to spend so much time minding other people's business for them).

    At my little college in PA we plinked cans with air pistols behind the science center, had raging gunfights in the dorm halls with Crossman SoftAir guns, and the only trouble anyone had with real guns was an inconsiderate hunter who would clean small game in the bathroom sink and make a mess instead of cleaning them in the utility room and making sure he left it spotless like the other hunters did.

    One Halloween I painted my face as a skull, dressed in black, stuck that air pistol in my belt and went to my classes like that all day before coming in second in a costume contest that night.

    IMO, its more an urban vs rural, blue-collar/shirtsleeves worker vs academic elitist thing than north and south.
     
  16. MagnumDweeb

    MagnumDweeb Member

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    Well...seems I owe some apologies to folks. I thought I articulated clearly I didn't lump in all Northernners as yankees, evidently I failed.

    I am glad however that a good many folks are curing my ignorance about New Yorkers and their desire to (and perhaps regain someday) embrace the 2nd Amendment. To any I might have offensed, again apologies, My poorly articulated statement about being American and having strange things said to us that didn't make sense was meant as a reference to the strange three individuals who spouted arguments and statements that made no sense at all to me or my fellow southernners as we discussed in great depth afterwards.

    Vermont, thank you, I forgot about that one completely, yeah you folks do have better laws than us here in Florida. We unfortunately have too many folks around here that don't value the 2nd Amendment.

    Again as I thought I clearly stated, not all Northernners are Yankees, those may bear the label of Yankee are those who carry their thoughts and ideals down here into the south and feel no hestitation and espousing them in a form as to insult and slander us here in the South.

    I've met many a good northernners and have met folks from Chicago who came(they have said escaped in a few conversations) here to Florida and embraced or politely observed many southern traditions.

    I am obviously still ignorant of what qualifies as the midwest and thought I had stated that my misconception was owed to having a law professor from Montana who called it the Midwest.

    I commonly carry a gun on my hip, the house is off the beat and path and fairly secluded. My fiancee loves my P90 and wanted to join in, then my roomate saw it and wanted to join. My buddies who had brought their trucks over with their guns in theirs glovebox saw it and wanted to join in so, we probably made for a strange sight and I wasn't going to tell them no because we are all responsible safe gun owners and I made it quite clear that any passing around would be a big "no no."

    Again apologies to those folks in New York who shares the 2nd Amendment value.
     
  17. Byron Quick

    Byron Quick Moderator In Memoriam

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    Haven't really run into a problem where Northerners were freaking about my guns. Maybe they were just shy or being polite.

    Thing that gets me is how many move down here and then start trying to change it into the same crap they came down here to get away from.

    Maybe, that's just human nature. Seems people in the Northwest and Mountain states are complaining about Californians doing the same. Moving to a state to get away from California and then start agitating for the same policies that screwed up California.

    I try to treat everyone with courtesy and civility. Even when demanding they leave right this instance. Most of the Yankees I know have acted with courtesy and civility. When I run into one of the ones who wants to 'fix' Georgia by turning it into a putrid copy of what they're trying to run away from, I just smile and tell them,"If you don't like the state, why, Delta is ready when you are."
     
  18. Catherine

    Catherine member

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    I will add one more thing to my other posts here.

    I don't even think it is an urban versus rural 'thing' either. Been there - done that. Lived it and seen it.

    It is an INDIVIDUAL thing - pro gun, anti gun or 'moderate' take it or leave it gun type person NO matter where they were born/raised or moved to in the US of A.

    We are ALL different.

    We have good and bad people with good or bad manners no matter WHERE we live. We have people with ALL kinds of likes and dislikes even when it comes to open and conceal carry. For that matter - look at ALL of our likes and dislikes on what TYPE of firearm that we LOVE and USE the MOST!

    I figure whatever trips their trigger in THAT issue too! (Favorite guns and I will give MY opinion when ASKED but that does not mean that MY GUN is the BEST gun for YOU or anyone else!)

    Peace, freedom and firearms,

    Catherine
    Armed and Female - Open Carry Proponent aka ADVOCATE
    Born in NY!
    Montana Territory
    US of A
     
  19. Catherine

    Catherine member

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    To the original poster:

    Apologies accepted. Thank you.

    Side note:

    I do agree that there is nothing worse than a person who moves to another part of the SAME state or even to ANOTHER state to get AWAY from some crapola. Later on they ___ and moan - want it all changed to suit them and what the heck that they LEFT to get away from!

    I SAW that in my former state, my late husband's home state NOT mine, and those people were from THAT same state - moved to x, y or z place - wanted it all or most of it changed to SUIT them. Moved to the 'rural' area that I lived in outside of a VERY small farm town. Close to the lake.

    Now, you have that garbage NO matter where 'they' come from and it is SAD. It is human nature in many things too. Of course, there are so many OTHER things to say in THAT issue but it would be OFF topic and not GUN RELATED. However... some of those nice and not so nice people leave it alone and some of the JERKS even want to change the GUN LAWS. Gggrrrr.

    Look at the influx of CA, some OTHER anti gun state people and police force move to states like ID, MT, OR, etc. ALL of a sudden... they want the 'laws' changed and some other things. Now, I am NOT saying that all or most CA people feel that way so PUL___LEEZE do NOT take it that way. There is quite a bit of move or influx of retired police that move to certain parts of Idaho. Not just where Mark F. lives either!

    If you read city data and other REAL ESTATE websites about ALL states and even overseas... you will see DATA and talk about these VERY issues including GUN ISSUES - pro and con. Quite interesting. Crime and other issues are on those websites too.

    Catherine
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2008
  20. BruceRDucer

    BruceRDucer Member

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    alien ideas about gun ownership

    /

    Alien is a darn good description of the anti-gun attitude; but on to my philosophy.

    I have actually seen most of America, having hitch-hiked from Indiana, to Long-Island New York, to Florida, through Georgia, Texas, Through Minnesota, South Dakota Wyoming, California, Nevada, New Mexico, Missouri....and back to Indiana. This all occurred within a 5 year period of my youth.

    -------------------------------------------------

    The logic of a person's ideas are traceable, almost always, to their core assumption.

    The core assumptive of the person embracing "alien ideas" is probably something vaguely identifiable as a proposition that there is no conflict in human experience.

    That may sound absurd; but there are people who actually do adopt ideas as though they lived within a bubble of immunity.

    One of the reasons I state this is because I've victimized myself, by nearly every absurd ideological view that exists. Frankly, I have been a featherhead, in believing that using violence and force is entirely wrong.

    Obviously, I changed, and one of the aspects of changing my philosophy was that I began to study what the most ordinary people believed and did. Of course, the stereotypical image of the proverbial "Southerner" is of interest in that regard.

    Because I believe that in considerations of philosophy of life, Southerners often seem to hold a key to a deep wisdom. In our on-line discussions, Texans feature prominently in that regard. Over many years (I am now 60) I have traced the cultural currents in American life, as well as following them through history. Some of the most powerful currents are from the South, inclusive of unique people such as those from Texas. I respect these people very much for reasons of their cultural impact. In any war or conflict, I would prefer a Southerner over a Northerner, in my foxhole, any day.

    Perhaps "Northerners" trust their own government implicitly. Perhaps the diffierence with the "Southerner" is that he tends toward a self-reliance, not necessarily trusting those not of his close-knit community or family.

    There are both positive and negative stereotypes for Southerners, which are more iconic than a Northern counterpart. In fact, the Northern stereotype may be more evident in its absence, than the Southern.

    The whole gist of this however, is that in philosophy of arms and life, concerning self-defense propositions, I have often admired Southern ways, for the strange virtue I find in its people. I do not know if it can be explicitly identified. Being born in Indiana, I'm a Yankee for sure.

    However, my Scotch Irish Ancestors lived in North Carolina, departing suddenly about 1860 for Indiana.

    Perhaps, there's a bit of the "Southerner" in my blood; but I do believe in the the inherent determination for the right to self-defense.

    ___________________________________________

    In this regard, and the original poster's identification of how an "alien" personality comes to your home, with hostility and starts telling you what to do, it identifies something of a cultural difference. Generally, a Southerner would not do that to his neighbor, whereas a Northerner will.

    Allow me to illustrate, that I am not blind in this cultural distinction. In the movie Gettysburg, if you recall, there is a scene where some Southerner soldiers are questioned by the Union officer.

    The philosphy expressed by one Southerner enlisted man, was:

    "Some say, LIVE AND LET LIVE." (or words to that effect)

    That is why I think there is a virtue in the Southern mentality, that is a formula for a philosphical courtesy and a type of spiritual courtesy, not necessarily evident in the Northern mentality.

    [Otherwise, to be brief: Remember the Alamo. Ozzy Osbourne gets what he deserves.......all of it. Sorry, just had to air out that resentment.]

    I suspect my kin saw a War coming over slavery, and departed the South for more peaceable lands; but I also think the South stays in a man's blood. I'm a better man for it. As my father said: "You've got to have a certain respect."


    //



    /




    /:uhoh:
     
  21. BruceRDucer

    BruceRDucer Member

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    Hey benEzra

    /

    You know, a month ago, I was in a Borders bookstore at the gun book racks, and an elderly black gentleman started chatting with me.

    Not only did he mention that he had a Concealed Carry permit, He also told me he carried a back-up in an ankle holster.

    We have a very lively chat about arms and such, and I guess he travels around Oklahoma and Wyoming a lot. Real nice fella, who was very knowledgeable. He had done military service in the U. S. Army. He was just the kind of good-hearted man that makes me feel safe.:)




    /
     
  22. wcwhitey

    wcwhitey Member

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    No apology necessary, you are entitled to a little rant now and then. I actually feel for ya, I am a little touchy that my kids don't get to enjoy the lifestyle in which I grew up, it was a good one. Bill
     
  23. swiftak

    swiftak Member

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    I hate to burst anyone from the south's bubble, but when it comes to gun laws, Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont are three of the best states in the country. All we need to do is discourage anyone from the south (Mass, Conn, and NY city) from moving here to save us from ourselves.
     
  24. SCKimberFan

    SCKimberFan Member

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    3KillerBs: A correction. You, like me, are now a damn yankee, since we moved south and didn't go back. :D
     
  25. mainebear

    mainebear Member

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    I have lived here in Northern Maine all my life. I also worked for seven years for a company on the Eastern Shore of Virginia. (commuting back and forth believe it or not) (Great fun that was).

    I found that Northern Maine and Eastern Shore Virginia were very similiar as far as people and their attitudes etc.. I met some awful nice folks down there and made some life long friends. Just hard workin folks that cared for their families, loved their hunting and shooting, barbecues etc.. Not much difference. I love that southern hospitality. They also seemed to be a little slower paced down there, and maybe a little better cooks. (Maybe the different way they prepared seafood and such was just different than us up north.)

    I agree with the posters who say that it's not so much a North vs. South thing as much as a rural vs. urban thing. I also used to visit the large eastern metrpolitan areas on a regular basis. Nice to visit for a day, but I couldn't wait to get back to the rural atmosphere be it in the south or the north.

    Maybe it's just all those people cramped up in that small space and hustle and bustle that brings out the worst in folks.

    Anyway, Hi to everyone south of the mason/dixon line. Love your winter weather, your seafood, barbecue, and thanks for being nice to those of us from the north who visit your areas.

    Hope you receive the same warm welcome from us when you visit our area. don't forget to try the lobstah and the clam chowdah. If it's winter, drive slow, that black ice is a killer. Oh yeah, watch out for the moose in the road!!
     
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