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not a clue

Discussion in 'Firearms Research' started by JSB45LC, Jun 20, 2011.

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  1. JSB45LC

    JSB45LC Member

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    I have an Ithica DB w/hammers and 24" barrels. has W.F. & Co. Exp and a pointer dog on the left side. Pointer and Ithica gun Co. ,Ithica New York on the other serial # all match 2233xx. can't find a thing on it. Also it has the top of what appears to be a cowboy boot to protect the stock
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2011
  2. Ron James

    Ron James Member

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    Tried to type the URL of a couple of sites, no go, no matter how many times I checked it it kept coming up Not Found,:banghead: Oh well, if you google Wells Fargo Fakes, Wells Fargo Shotguns, Wells Fargo History you will find a wealth of information. The odds are 99 and 9/10 certain your shotgun is a fake. Wells Fargo " coach guns " are one of the most faked items on the market. It is so bad that most collectors will laugh at you if you say you have one. First, there is no one standard way Wells Fargo marked it's equipment, each office was a local entity. Second, most offices did not even mark their equipment or kept records. Unless you have written , historical proof it doesn't matter if it is " real " or not, can't be proved. Third, There are no , I repeat no, written records of what shotguns were used ( most shotgun guards, both stage coach and rail road, used a standard length shotgun or a rifle ). Sorry to be the harbinger of bad news. sorry about that. It is a case of unscrupulous dealers taking an old shotgun, cutting the barrels , ageing it , stamping w&F Co. on the stock and then selling it to a naive buyer for several times it's real value. I ;have even seen shotguns made in the 1930's marked as such and put up for sale as a 1890's " Wells Fargo" shotgun.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2011
  3. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    http://books.google.com/books?id=nL...un company wells fargo serial numbers&f=false

    see Page 101

    WF contracted with Ithaca in 1908 and continued to buy guns for them until 1917. Somewhere on the net are the serial number blocks, but I haven't seen them in many years and don't have time to look this morning.

    They didn't make many guns for WF - 100 a year - and some were 10 ga.. And there should be a WF number in addition to the Ithaca number.

    Your gun appears to have been made in 1912. Would you check the name on the gun company again - you typed EXP and the book says it should end in EX.

    John
     
  4. Ron James

    Ron James Member

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    Perhaps there are still treasures in the attic. Post the serial number and all markings, put up some good pictures with full views of the gun and markings. JohnBT seem to be very knowledgeable and perhaps he can help you. I'm just very cynical because of all the fakes I've seen. A few months ago on another forum a gentleman posted requesting information on his fathers WWII bring back Walther PPK. It had been resting in the top shelf of his closet for over 20 years. When the smoked cleared away it turned out to be a very rare variant ( plus in 99 percent condition ) and was valued at over 12,000 dollars. Perhaps luck will be a lady in your case also.:)
     
  5. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    I'm no expert, I just have a copy of Best Guns By Michael McIntosh and remembered the mention of WF in the Ithaca chapter.

    I'd never buy a shotgun with WF on it - too many fakes out there.

    Still, there must be some real ones out there somewhere, either marked by one of the contract companies or by the home office itself. One I ran across was a Purdy and the WF info was engraved on the rib, not stamped into the wood.
     
  6. Dr.Rob

    Dr.Rob Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd love to see some pics
     
  7. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    Interesting about the Ithaca quote, as WF says they never bought any shotguns as a company, that individual agents and offices made local purchases as needed. It would be nice to see photocopies of Ithaca's records or some other solid documentation on the Ithaca - Wells Fargo connection.

    Jim
     
  8. JSB45LC

    JSB45LC Member

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    W.F. Co. Ex

    here are some pics. sounds like it's just a db wall hanger. I talked to a historian at Wells Fargo, he also said WF did not buy any shotguns for their drivers or shotgun riders but rather reimbursed, the cowboy boot top around the stock was something that was done to protect it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2011
  9. JSB45LC

    JSB45LC Member

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    this could be Ex It looks like it laid next to a bolt or something I can only varify the E
     
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