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Not so lucky, but it's the thought that counts, right?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Wylie1, Mar 6, 2011.

?

What would you do?

  1. Tell her to send it back hurting her feeling no matter how hard I try not to.

    10.4%
  2. Bite the bullet and build a better rifle out of a Remington mistake.

    39.6%
  3. Pack the 770 as a back up and buy the Tikka without her knowing

    33.3%
  4. Punt

    20.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Wylie1

    Wylie1 Member

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    Other then my introduction post this will be my first, please excuse me it's a bit long winded and convoluted.

    I guess I should set you up with a base line here to go from. I'm a low income individual being I work a seasonal job and am semi disabled. I really shouldn't be doing the work I do but a man has to do...

    I depend upon my rifles for Idaho style grocery shopping to fill the freezer for the winter months besides a bunch of fishing in the warmer months as well.

    It must have been that I bumped my cheap Barska on my 91/30 Mosin this year as after I missed a 300 or so yard shot at a nice buck I took a short poke at a target and was repulsed by the results. I ended up using a loaner to get me little 3 x 3 buck I was real lucky to get.

    Being the Mosin is either barrel burnt or just getting more finicky then I have found it to be I've been hell bent on a new rifle this year. Something with some real accuracy right out of the box that wouldn't break the bank.

    In knowing this a family member made a wonderful gesture in sending me a 1952 Columbian R. Famage 30-06 Mauser although before I got it out of the box I could tell the barrel is bent right at the receiver. On closer inspection the parkerizing is cracked at the outside of bend between the receiver and barrel with what looks to be solder showing inside the crack. I'm no gun smith but this thing looks like a boat oar, maybe a door stop or a lamp but definitely nothing I would ever chance putting a round through.

    Although it wasn't the easiest thing to do I informed this family member of what I thought of the gun and even checked it out at a gun shop where I was told I was correct in my assessment. The bolt is cherry and showed up in the mail first just as a safer shipping method and had me very excited. The bore is very bright with tall sharp lands and I guess I'm just left to feel fortunate nobody else got their hands on this gun because it very likely would have been fired and just about as likely to have hurt someone.

    It's pretty obvious now this family member felt bad about getting me so excited being the bolt showed up first and was in such promising condition as well as the reports of the look of the bore that had me going. This family member went and bought of all fire arms a Remington 770 in .308 because senior family huntsman had owned Remington in the past. I'll be the last to kick a gift horse in the mouth but my heart dropped when I was informed I was going to be receiving a 770. 200 Winchester 7.62 x 51 rounds have already shown up! Good for the brass I figure anyway and I have some 4350 and good bullets left from the Mosin loads. At this point I'm left to just expect a better shooter then the old Mosin (I hope!) and make the best I can of it.

    I have a limited amount of smithing experience with the Mosin and already have plans of getting the plastic sling eyelets ground off and replaced them with real sling eyelets. I've read the Mosin pistols have better trigger action then these things although I should be able drop the five or so pound pull to something more reasonable. Can anyone lend any support with the trigger work?

    I don't know much about these stocks. Should I pillar bed it? Bed the receiver and if so how far out on the barrel should it be bedded? Should I stabilize the stock with some aluminum channel and Devcon Plastic Steel? How about that bolt, any suggestions?

    I have that Barska 6.5-20 x 50 I don't really trust, the AO seems to be the greatest part of my mistrust. Should I get it set at 200 yards and Crazy Glue the adjustments?

    I also have a brand new never used Nikon ProStaff 3-9 x 40 with the BDC although I planned on this being mounted up on a new Tikka T3 lite, the rifle I was hell bent on getting before hunting season this year. The Tikka was a step up from the XS7 but the extra money sounded to be worth it. It's going to be hard for me to mount this scope on that gun!

    To put shortly after this long winded post, how would you deal with this?

    All suggestions are welcome other then telling my Mother to send it back. It's bought and paid for, she's picking it up Tuesday. I just can't bring myself to do it and feel I can make a reasonable shooter out of this rifle with a little work. I might shoot a box a rounds each year but every round that leaves the muzzle has to hit it's mark or I'm looking at a long hungry winter.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  2. WeedWacker

    WeedWacker Member

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    Be careful, 7.62 russian slugs are larger in diameter than 7.62 American/NATO.

    7.62x54r = .311

    7.62x51 = .309 (IIRC)

    And the 770 isn't complete junk. It will go bang, just don't expect it to be a tank like the Mosin. And if parts break, Remington is still in business and making these rifles. I think your glass is half full, if you catch my drift. You can also use it later on down the road to fund another rifle.
     
  3. Wylie1

    Wylie1 Member

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    Thanks Weed Wacker!

    Yeah you're right! I just looked at the bullets I have and they are .3105 and .311. I wouldn't want to shoot the bore out of a new rifle!:eek:

    The Mosin slugged pretty tight and both of these bullets were doing even groups with 48 grains of powder. Scaring MOA but just not getting there.

    I guess you know Mosins. Mine weighs in at somewhere around 12 pounds!
    The first ATI stock had a twist to it and just kept revealing more on the left as I re-leaved material from the right to the point it was terrible looking. The second stock was doing the same so I hollow bedded the length of the barrel with aluminum channel, open side down to have some air space, a little lighter that way but still maintains some rigidity. I put a bunch of work into that beast.
    Pillar bedded
    Polished all bolt parts on mating surfaces
    Cut off the counter bore and re-crowned the muzzle
    Brought everything (except the magazine) to 600 grit and blued with Oxpho after warming it up. I ended up bluing it three times I think
    Polished trigger to bolt mating surfaces, it might be able to use a little more work there.
    Drilled and tapped for scope mounts.
    Installed a ATI down turned bolt handle.
    Probably some stuff I've forgotten too.

    As long as I hear two thuds following the bang it's all good. One thud when the slug impacts and the other when the animal hits the ground.

    This I have read good responses from on the net.

    If it shoots well enough when I'm done it's a keeper and I'll just have to remember to have it in the pictures that go to Mom whether it made the kill or not. I'm likely to keep it because my Mom gave it to me too.

    Here's to tags half filled!
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  4. WeedWacker

    WeedWacker Member

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    My first rifle ever was a 91/59 and my second mosin was a 91/30 sniper w/PSO scope. If you have a decent bore they will hold 1 1/2 minutes easy. I know I can get close to one hole with three rounds at 50 yards with the sniper (I still have to figure out how to keep the mount from shifting, I never have the tools on me when i need then :banghead:). I also have a 1903 (sporterized but not by me :cuss:) that holds 1.5-2 on a good day but the deer don't seem to care about that, they fall over just as well as if I did it with my .308 Howa that holds less than a minute. Shots generally aren't going to be over 100 yards very frequently, but when they appear it's nice to know your rifle will perform. I would probably put the 770 ahead of your Mosin in the accuracy department (they are still Remington barrels/actions, anyway) and with a decent scope will hold up for a few years until you can afford something else. Howa 1500's are still fairly affordable (it's basically a Weatherby Vanguard) and can compete with the 700 SPS line easily.
     
  5. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    When somebody gives you a present, the best thing to do with something you don't really like is to just say, "Thanks," and go on about your business. There is no way on God's green earth that a family member or friend won't be hurt by any rejection of a gift.

    Quite a few rifles which are not of truly high quality will still perform adequately for the few shots fired in hunting. A few sight-in shots and a few on game? Nowhere near a strain on the durability...
     
  6. Lovesbeer99

    Lovesbeer99 Member

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    From what I understand the 770 does what it's supposed to do very well. It's low budget but reliable and accurate enough for hunting at any distance the bullet will take you.

    On the other hand if you really like the Mosin Aim Supless is selling 91/30 for under 70.00
     
  7. Tpr0811

    Tpr0811 Member

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    Nice to have family! Give the Remington a try you may start liking it better the more you use it.
     
  8. 451 Detonics

    451 Detonics Member

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    I would shoot the 770 before doing anything...it might surprise you.
     
  9. Malamute

    Malamute Member

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    The 770 should be fine for a meat maker. Use the good scope for now, until you get something else you like more.

    If you still have the Mauser, the barrel may be the problem, not the action. Barrels are fairly easy to replace to someone with the tools. It's possible to buy a barrel ready to screw into the action, and only need finish chambering to complete. Some barrels are fairly affordable ane shoot well. Wouldnt hurt to get a price on doing it, and it wouldnt hurt to have another rifle around.
     
  10. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    This is absolutely the thing to do.
    Just because I woulndn't buy something, doesn't mean I wouldn't take one for free! :)
    Be thankful. You have a relative that cares enough to spend a few hundred dollars on you. That's a good thing.
     
  11. Fremmer

    Fremmer Member

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    Why not actually shoot the gun and see how she shoots before you get too upset. You might just be surprised.....
     
  12. Wylie1

    Wylie1 Member

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    Agreed 100%! I get one deer a year here in Idaho and feel it would be a cry shame to not be able make a long poke over a difference of about $20 being I have a scope on hand. From what I have read it may be luck of the draw bettering my Mosin but I do consider it very likely.

    Have you tried the Rock Solid Industries base for your scope or are you staying more toward the OEM? I'm not even sure if this is a good suggestion as my issues could have either been with the Barska or the mounting of the Barska.
    Thanks Weed Wacker!

    Art Eatman,
    I know and I'd feel like a pretty rotten son not playing it off as if I were happy with the gift. Yes I don't need a target rifle by any means and can only cross my fingers on the accuracy of this rifle.

    Lovesbeer99,
    I've come across a few posts stating just this and then some claiming 1.5 and 2 inch groups at 100 yards. Granted we all don't shoot the same and it isn't always the rifle.
    Honestly I'd much rather have the Remington then another Mosin even if I have to invest some time and money into the Rem. The Mosins as far as I know are a much greater hit and miss then with the Rem, imho.

    Being a skim rebedding of the receiver done properly(not tensioned with the screws) may bring the Mosin into a tighter group yet she's still an option as well as gluing the scopes settings into place. This last bedding would be the last of the work I would want to do with this Mosin. The bore's a bit dark but she may still have the last word with a few deer, it just has to be seen at the range.

    Tpr0811,
    I'm not going to count out the possibility this gun could be a real hunter and I think the rifle looks just fine other then the plastic sling eyes which are a cheap fix. It's going to the range and getting the proper brake in off bags for sure.

    451 Detonics,
    I sure hope so!

    Malamute,
    I'm beginning to think the same other then the fact of a trigger adjustment voids any recourse on parts going south. A 5 to 8 pound pull and a long poke are working the odds against a guy filling his belly.

    Yep, agreed, this is a Spanish barrel with a bad rep, they made a few good pistols out of this plant but the rifle barrels, not so good.

    Yeah I can get a barrel for about $100.00 but a space for the ejector has to be milled in the barrel and by the time it's all said and done I might as well have the security of the Tikka for a little extra money. Again it looks to be soldered in place as well and this is something I haven't dealt with.

    Oh, the Mauser is going to hang around for the prospect of a future project. The receiver is pitted but not so bad near the locking lugs and is a first run 1803. That's about all I'd keep it for really.

    Fremmer,
    That's where I have to go with it. The original posts I read on the internet were extremely unfavorable and since there have been a few stating these rifle as decent shooter, that's all I need! I've had a couple tack drivers in the past and maybe lady luck will deal me a fair hand with this game of chance.


    I have called my brother and talked this over with him. He's going to feel things out and see how tied into this rifle she really is. He's pretty sharp and the best I can hope for is feelings not getting hurt.

    As I mentioned I'll be the last person to kick a gift to the curb. Not much comes a persons way in my experience so you take what you can get and be happy with it. I know starting this thread sounds to the contrary it's just the concern of my Mother hard earned money could be spent better then it may have already been and if I can fix it I will.

    Thank you folks!

    Edit: Oops! forgot about the bolt in the Mauser.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  13. Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger Member

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    You better accept the gift rifle with a smile and genuine gratitude. There's no way a family member will not be hurt if you reject it since you are basically telling them that their judgment sucks, and you don't appreciate the gesture. I made that mistake once or twice, and won't do it again.

    Use the Remington, while not my choice either it will probably work quite well for hunting and low volume shooting. If you still want a new rifle then use the opportunity of not having to buy one now allow you to save up more money for one you want.
     
  14. Wylie1

    Wylie1 Member

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    I didn't say I wasn't going to do just that, and the gratitude is very genuine.

    I'm left with the understanding you haven't read this thread completely.

     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  15. Wylie1

    Wylie1 Member

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    Damn

    I appreciate everyones replies and the opinions of this forum are the reason I have joined here and not some others I have been lurking on as well for some time now.

    It may be to the best of interests that this thread be deleted if possible.

    Thanks again folks!
     
  16. ByAnyMeans

    ByAnyMeans Member

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    See what accuracy you get from the rifle with a worked up load. If needs improving do some work to it, starting with the cheapest modifications and see if you get up to acceptable accuracy. If unable to get the accuracy that is acceptable to you then keep this rifle and get another, cannot hurt mom's feelings after all. Seems simple enough.
     
  17. Wylie1

    Wylie1 Member

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    Thanks for the reply,
    As things go I ended up finding the worst of the reviews right out of the gate and have since found some that have been promising.

    So far the best I have gathered is clean the rifle meticulously straight out of the box, some have the dried up grease not helping the action along any. Next, buff the crap out of the bolt and lube liberally. Then, fire one round at a time with cleaning between each round for the first ten. Do the same with three rounds at a time for another dozen or fifteen rounds, then move up to ten rounds doing the same. This is just what is going to happen. Some have said that the rifle has seemed to gained in accuracy and function with time so this is what I am hoping for.

    I'll be keeping my brass from the 200 rounds that have shown up already and doing just that. Some of the same class rifles are a bit finicky like the Mossberg a friends wife owns and I'll be looking up load info here shortly. With any luck I won't have to go into the bullets and dies too soon as these rounds are a fmjbt. They're Winchester 7.62 x 51rs model q3130s.

    Yeah, I ended up calling my brother back and told him not to bother calling Mom. It would be pretty tough getting around not hurting her feeling with such a generous effort as she has made.

    The only other new rifle I have ever had was a little Marlin model 60 semi auto (I think that's what it was) when I was a kid so I am pretty excited to see how this does at the range.
     
  18. Davek1977

    Davek1977 Member

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    Keep in mind that the fmjbt bullets are NOT suitable for hunting. FMJ rounds tend to penetrate a target fully without any expansion. You will want to find a softpoint round that shoots well for hunting purposes. The FMJBT's should be reserved for target practice, and are not to be used on game animals (actually illegal to use for hunting in most areas)
     
  19. Wylie1

    Wylie1 Member

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    Yeah I know, but don't understand the reasoning in potentially wasting a bunch of meat.

    Okay I do, it's just too bad all hunters aren't ethical and don't wait for a good shot.
     
  20. Malamute

    Malamute Member

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    It isnt just about meat damage, the FMJ loads simply arent clean, reliable killers on game. Maybe people arent as tough as a deer, but the killing reliabilty of soft point loads compared to FMJ is pretty pronounced. If you use heavier bullets than commmon, such as 180's instead of 150's on deer, that can help reduce meat damage to a degree, tho I don't miss much of what may be bloodshot on a side shot through the ribs/heart/lungs. Much can be trimmed and used in any event if you take a little time.

    If it were me, I wouldnt worry too much about the trigger adjustment. If the guns works well with intitial shooting, I'd adjust it for further use. I would doubt there would be a problem with warranty if the problem wasnt directly related to the trigger. It may slick up a little with use also, or could be slicked up some on contact parts without actually adjusting it. You could also get a snap cap and sit and dry fire it for a half hour and see how it goes.

    Good luck with the rifle.
     
  21. Wylie1

    Wylie1 Member

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    My first deer was taken with a Styres 300 Winmag loaner, big old circle of pudding!

    I have personally seen a doe double lunged with a surplus FMJ. She ran a little ways, maybe 50 feet then paused and then another FMJ double lunged her again. A couple more steps and she went down. Those FMJs hardly seemed to slow down as they past right through and ricocheted off rocks behind her.

    I helped dress this animal out and the waste was minimal, Very Little Waste and I doubt that animal would have gotten very far after the first shot pasted through her, she sure looked to be on her way out right from the first impact.

    I know it's illegal and the consequences aren't worth a few extra deer steaks.

    I've become a fan of the MatchKing HPBTs which all but match the accuracy of a FMJ through my Mosin and have bettered the FMJs in a few groups. This was against Hornaday FMJ #3131s, 48grns Hodgonds, Lapua Brass and Federal primers. Bulgarian light ball sniper rounds (out of the can with the 10 in the rings) which really perform through my Mosin. I think the worst thing I did with the Mosin was put Wolf heavy grain bullets through it.

    The 200 rounds I have are going to be used to season the barrel very much in the same manner a target barrel would be seasoned. I hate burning up all that ammo that way as I do have a bullet extractor and could likely make better use of the powder although I haven't found enough info on the Winchester rounds I have to know what powder was used in their make up.

    Here's a target I hit from 100 yards with the Mosin. I pulled one at high left and the other higher one was a flier. I sure they still have some of these rounds left where I got them. I got a 440 round box of Hungarian light ball I'll trade off for half maybe less of a box of these. I have only been able to match this with hand loads through the Mosin.
    [​IMG][/IMG]
    And the Bulgarian light ball box at the store I bought them from. I've had my fingers crossed that the hole in the can hasn't rotted the rounds inside and they are still at the store.
    DSC00207.gif
    Might as well post up the Mosin too. I changed out this scope because the crosshairs are so thick I can't really see the bull at 100 yards, it may go back on again as it did hold zero.
    P7230251.jpg
     
  22. Fullboar1

    Fullboar1 Member

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    If I was you I would thank your mother for the great gift of a rifle and tell her that the 308 is the caliber you wanted then explain to her that Remington are great rifles but the model 770 is a lemon (if she needs to understand why just do an internet search for the 770 and she will soon understand). Just explain if you get the 770 you will probably have to do a heap of work to it to make it shootable and safe and also when doing work to the 770 you may void it's warranty. Tell her the Tikka T3 already has all the work done to it and it even comes with a accuracy gaurantee. You will never be happy with the 770 especially if your heart was set on a Tikka and IMHO the Tikka is miles ahead of most of the other rifles on the market. I am sure your mother will understand she's not like any other woman you know. If you don't want to go that far just tell her that the 308 was the right caliber and a Remington was the right rifle but the model 700 would suit you better then the 770. If I was you I would go for the Tikka T3 as the action is already bedded (bedding block) and the barrel is floated as it also has one of the best triggers of any factory gun, it also has the same barrel as the (top of the range) Sako. If you get the Remington 700 you will probably still have to bed the action, float the barrel and upgrade the trigger ect, but IMHO (and most others) anything is better then the 770.
     
  23. Wylie1

    Wylie1 Member

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    I have thanked her and she got the 308 because she knew it was my choice of cartridge being a decent round for both Elk and Deer.

    When I thanked her we were looking at pictures of the rifle on the Internet talking over the phone. I asked her if we could hang up because I might have to touch myself while looking at pictures of the rifle. Good enough?:cool:

    Originally I was looking at the worst of the reviews on the 770 and have found some good range reports by qualified shooters so I don't consider all a lose at this point by any means. I haven't even put the rifle in my hands at this point let alone put a round through it so it has yet to be seen as to it's accuracy.

    Trigger work will void the warranty but that isn't saying it couldn't go back to stock if something happened.

    She tried real hard to do a really good thing for me and I'm not killing her buzz, it's good to see her happy!

    It will be tight but I know what my tax return is going to bring this year and I might be able to swing the Tikka. Once weather warms up I have enough stuff hanging around a garage sale should insure a Tikka in my hands, I think. It will be .308 as well but in stainless.:cool:

    Depending on the accuracy of the 770 after getting the Remoil out of it, buffing the bolt and applying some quality lube and shooting 100 or so rounds through it, I've already been looking at blocking the receiver, pillar bedding and bedding the receiver. I'm just having a hard time gaining much in the way of pictures to plan on or information on the Internet to go on.

    Edit:
    I forgot to mention, it turns out she didn't pick out the rifle, her husband did. Ex-Navy racing with the Jones type that is building on Howa receivers so you go and try figuring this out. I'm at a lose but Moms happy and that's really all that matters at this point. I'm sill hell bent on the Tikka and almost feel I should I make a point of modifying this 770 to point I group better then his higher priced rifles. Granted he won't know the work I've put into it but it will pay double fold for me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2011
  24. Wylie1

    Wylie1 Member

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    We're too running on a string of not completely useless items as gifts but nothing of necessity. This also is a matter of feeling already being hurt just for the same reasons you have mentioned and part of the reason I'm going to be complacent with this gift and make the best of it. I know where you are coming from!

    It has been mentioned we should just give cash.

    I went back and edited my last post so I'll quote myself here on a matter that has me a bit baffled and at this point I have stressed myself enough over this that I'll let it lay. Okay I'm not so baffled, the man knows less then I do of fire arms and didn't do a lick a research before throwing their money at this rifle.
    I'm pretty sure if I voice my opinion to him it will get back to Mom so I'm just left to out shoot the dumb arse with an ecomo buy rifle.

    I was going to quote myself but for some reason my right mouse button isn't working. Okay fixed!
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2011
  25. Wylie1

    Wylie1 Member

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    Being I have found that she didn't pick out the rifle and he did I sent him an email. His feelings I'm not all that concerned with.

    I'm not sure I should do this but here's the email below.

    I'm guessing you'll get this on your phone before my Mom ever has a chance to see it.

    I'll be the last person to hurt my mother anymore then I have and I don't want her to know about this email, she tries too hard.

    Don't take this as I don't appreciated the gift of the rifle because I very much do, I just hope she isn't paying for it as it is the worst thing Remington has put on the market since the 710 model. For the same money there are much better choices out there like the XS7 or XL7 by Marlin, the Savage 110 or 111 with the accutrigger is even better then the 770. A Steven is a few dollars more and has guaranteed accuracy where the 770 is a hit and miss although I have read a few good range reports on the 770.

    If it isn't too late and the lose isn't that great I'll replace what is lost with my tax return money to get into something not so disposable. The barrel can't even be replaced on the 770. It comes with a 5 to 8 pound trigger pull and if it is adjusted it voids the warranty. The sling studs on the stock have had a few reports of breakage. The scope on the rifle, especially bucked by a heavier recoil is very likely not going to hold zero. The scope mounts are very cheap and not very reliable. Sure it has a good warrenty but Remington very much resembles a company that is about to go under and so much for the warranty at that point.

    I've been researching .308s for some time now and just about settled for the Marlin SX7 or XL7 but decided to throw a little more money at a rifle with the guaranteed accuracy of the Tikka T3 Lite. Being the research I have done I was aware of the 770s reviews and didn't know how to act when she said the 770 is what was going to be sent. Like I have said there have been some good range reports but most are no better then I can do with this 1942 Mosin Nagant at 1.5 to 2 M.O.A..

    Take a look here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbizDZq5rug

    The truth of the matter is there are many compounded reasons I would much rather have any other rifle. I managed to get a brand new Nikon ProStaff 3-9 x 40 with the BDC reticle for $123.00, so I have decent quality scope already and have a line on some good bases and rings cheap.

    This isn't going to be a fun gun or plinker is the main reason I have brought myself to sending you this email. I sold off a tack driver of a plinker just to get into something legal to hunt with. This rifle will be a tool for filling the freezer for a person who depends upon a rock solid accurate fire arm to do so. Like I said if there is any way to get out from under this rifle please do it. I'll send you the lose and enough to get into something far more worth the money going into it.

    Again I really can't express how much I appreciate the gesture, this is just one of those things that has to hit the mark and do it every time.

    This is likely to go over like pissing into the wind at this point but I don't need another dust collector and my tax return could sure be used elsewhere.
     
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