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NRA and bad law block a way to catch killers?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Bio-Chem, Jun 26, 2012.

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  1. Azimuth315

    Azimuth315 Member

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    How effective would microstamping be without universal registration?

    What do you think they're really shooting for with this microstamping proposal?

    Regards -- Al
     
  2. toivo

    toivo Member

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    Well, we're talking about New York here, where we already have 100% registration of handguns. Only the legal ones, of course. :scrutiny:
     
  3. Azimuth315

    Azimuth315 Member

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    Governor Schwarzenneger signed the law in 2007 for California.

    It has not gone into effect yet because of patent encumbrances. That same issue, I suspect, would hamper it's enactment in New York. I doubt, however, that New York will satisfy the appetite for control.

    While the majority of states do not have "gun registration" it is an achievement gun control (confiscation) proponents desire.

    Mayor Bloomberg, with his "Mayors Against Illegal Guns", is only one of many diligently working toward this end. Microstamping and discrete identification on ammunition are "only reasonable actions necessary to fight crime". Just more arrows in the gun control quiver.

    The best way, in my opinion, to keep this idea from being exported to my state (Florida - NO registration) or any other free state is to stop it before it happens to New York.

    Strangle that baby in its crib, so to speak.

    Respect & Regards -- Al
     
  4. Guy B. Meredith

    Guy B. Meredith Member

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    Being a confirmed revolver shooter, my greatest anxiety about microstamping is that it would bring about laws forcing everyone to shoot bottom feeders.
     
  5. Guy B. Meredith

    Guy B. Meredith Member

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    Actually, it'd probably be good if NY could make microstamping firearms available as an abject lesson in futility to the rest of the nation.
     
  6. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    Oh, hey, MD still funds their shell library don't they?
     
  7. Librarian

    Librarian Member

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    I think you may be mixing up two ideas: 'microstamping', where the firearm itself imprints some 'in clear' markings on the ejected case, and 'ammunition serialization', where the manufacturer must apply serial numbers to cases and bullets, and sales would need to record the serial numbers sold to each buyer.

    Neither one is a good idea.
     
  8. Twmaster

    Twmaster Member

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    Yes.

    Also, the NY Senate defeated the Microstamping bill last week. (sorry if that was mentioned elsewhere in this thread.)
     
  9. Skribs

    Skribs Member

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    95% of the comments I read were about how stupid microstamping is. When I read an article on CNN, I will then read the comments, and it makes me feel a lot safer knowing that the majority of the posters disagree with the author. My new sig says it all: Stop focusing on gun restrictions and focus on violence prevention. People always cite mass shootings as a reason to confiscate guns. I cite it as a reason for more people to own guns. A mass shooter is someone who nobody fired back at.
     
  10. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Look at a typical firing pin.

    With a vise, hand drill, files and scrap metal a Pakistani can reproduce any firearm you sit in front of him. And any firing pin too.

    Americans would use a numerical controlled lathe.

    Black market replacement firing pins. Plus 300,000,000 already existing guns with conventional firing pins. Can we spell unenforceable? (Good question, do I drop the "e" when I add "able"?) Ok, I can spell "useless".
     
  11. YankeeFlyr

    YankeeFlyr Member

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    I still don't see how micro-stamping increases costs of ammo or reloading components...not that I think it's an effective idea, really.

    It might increase the costs of the WEAPON, but not the ammo, unless there's some technical detail I am missing.
     
  12. cregan

    cregan Member

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    friend of mine from the gun club is a foresic scientist, the real crime scene cat, he said in one of his legislative reports that the one who was promoting this stuff the the assembly or senate to get it on a bill was accually the owner of the pattent also that it was less than half reliable and that furthermore, mfgr's simply will not produce guns to the states that require it as it is not practical from any point of their view nor profitable, it's simply bad science and a foolish yet self serving proposition.
     
  13. YankeeFlyr

    YankeeFlyr Member

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    I believe it IS practical, from a manufacturing point of view (I'm an engineer) although I do not support it!

    The rest doesn't surprise me....if true.

    Micro-machining and/or laser etching are real and proven technologies and could easily be incorporated on a large scale for almost no added cost (note that I said "large scale"; the cost of equipment and processes defrayed over many, many, many gun parts). To those who say 'no', that's the same as saying that it's impractical, economically, to produce guns with interchangeable parts...different century but the same naysayers.

    Just sayin'...a little intellectual honesty here...I don't like it either but it IS possible.
     
  14. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    Yankee, the problem is that it's easily defeated with a file, and things will eventually wear down. And it dramatically increases the costs of such components. It would also essentially illegalize home gun repair. Additionally, the level of stress the case and primer are put under cannot guarantee reliable stamping, and some designs, such as those with rotating bolts, will likely wreck the inscription under recoil as both bolt and firing pin rotate (inertia will keep the firing pin forward under slide recoil). You can make this work in a lab under controlled circumstances, with a specific firearm. However, you cannot make this work reliably in the real world.
     
  15. YankeeFlyr

    YankeeFlyr Member

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    Nope

    It would not dramatically increase the cost of the components; not if it became the de facto manufacturing technique. No, a rotating bolt would not obliterate the mark. It can be made reliable.

    You are correct, though, that a few file strokes could obliterate it!

    And, of course, the idea that the registered owner was the one firing....and all that, is bogus. But the technical aspects of manufacture are not.

    I don't like it either, but it's NOT unfeasible to implement.
     
  16. ol' scratch

    ol' scratch Member

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    This is an opinion piece. A very poor opinion piece. At the end of the piece, the author goes into an attack demanding that the Supreme Court revisit the Heller decision on moral grounds.
     
  17. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    Hey Yankee
    how's that shell library working for you in MD? YOU pay millions, and yet it still hasn't HELPED solve ONE SINGLE CRIME
    besides the silly laws you live under, in a free state a pointless, easily BROKEN (as in worn out or easily PRONE TO DAMAGE)
    and remember 100% reliability, as the owner under these schemes is liable if the shell isn't stamped. How do you get past the variety of materials in primer composition, the different density, composition and malleability, consider that a coin stamp press has a VERY specific life, and is replaced, yet what, it would be a mess, would you end up registering firing pins, and it

    STILL FAILS to regulate violence
    see violence is the issue, not guns, next you will have to register your kitchen knives and turn in your glass beer steins (and yeah, that's real)
     
  18. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Our most prolific recent local murderer killed a woman at a boarding house just one block where I lived and later killed two people in their home. He used a knife and a baseball bat. The problem with addressing violence through gun control is that not all violence involves guns, most guns are not used for violence, and as the NIJ Felon Survey convinced researchers Wright & Rossi most armed and dangerous criminals get their weapons outside the legal control system anyway from "unregulated sources" like fences and drug smugglers.
     
  19. YankeeFlyr

    YankeeFlyr Member

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    Didn't say I supported it!

    Shadow 7D...I agree, it is ineffectual....I never said I SUPPORTED IT!

    :scrutiny:

    I just said it could be done, from a manufacturing point, in a practical manner.

    Which was the point of debate that I originally commented on.
     
  20. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Whether it could be done does not mean it should be done.

    I have seen estimates that, for the cost of the useless Maryland ballistic fingerprint data base, the Maryland state police could have added (training, equipment, salary, etc) at least twelve full time troopers. I believe that is the argument the MSP have used to do away with it.

    One of the criticisms of the repealed Canadian long gun registry is that, over 17 years at a cost of 2.6 billion dollars, it provided corroborating evidence in four cases where identity, motive and opportunity of the suspect were already established. It did not solve any crimes. It did not prevent any crimes. For that amount of money, Canada could have fully finded over 2,000 addition police officers (at an average cost of $70k per year) with more crime prevention/solving benefit.

    Microstamping will prove to be the 2010's equivalent of those other firerarms tech GollyGeeWhizBangPopSci game-changers: the Dardick Tround and the GyroJet rocket bullet.
     
  21. Cearbhall

    Cearbhall Member

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  22. Trent

    Trent Member

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    GyroJet Rocket bullets? I'm all in! ;-)

    Microstamping is a horrible idea on so many levels. Sometimes I think they do this so we waste our time fighting nonsense, and avoid the REAL issues like getting the last state in the union concealed carry, or the poor buggers in Chicago and California their "fun" guns back again.

    For that matter, I'd sure as hell like to see a repeal on the machinegun ban.

    But.. common sense doesn't work in our favor.
     
  23. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    Come on trent, you KNOW better
    Machineguns ARE NOT banned
    the registry is just closed.... indefinitely.
     
  24. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    Then you would have to close the reloading loophole that lets people take ammo already stamped with one number (fired) and use it in another gun.
    Obviously only someone up to no good would want to possess ammo with other guns' serial numbers, or gasp actually use it.



    It wears away after so many rounds, and requires a replacement. Additional legislation would have to require all replacement firing pins have the registered serial number of the registered gun, making them expensive and special ordered, custom made for each gun as needed.
    The 'firing pin loophole' that lets people buy and replace/repair guns with any ol' firing pins without the microstamp would need to be closed.
    Firing pins would go from a cheap straight piece of metal slightly more complex than a nail, to an expensive custom part.

    And there is more...

    Such legislation would require a lot of additional 'loopholes' to be closed through additional legislation with more restrictions. All to implement something that is unlikely to accomplish much anyways.

    However all the additional legislation would give a lot more control and power over legal gun owners.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
  25. 2DREZQ

    2DREZQ Member

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    I don't reuse the primers, and if the firing pin strikes some other location on the base of the cartridge, I have the gun repaired.

    Just messin' with ya.

    FWIW I need a Gyrojet round for my collection, got one lying around?
     
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