NRA and Libertarians

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"So yes, the First Amendment does encompass freedom from religion."

I see you know very little about Mr. Jefferson's Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom and why the same thoughts were later included in the First Amendment.

There are numerous web sites devoted to the historical study of the development of Religious Freedom. It has a great deal to do with preventing the government from demanding religious participation, allowing the church to collect taxes, etc.

John
 
But you don't have one. It is those who pretend they do that can cause unintended consequences.
My alternative is to dissociate my vote from the republicrat dempublican liberal conservative delusion and vote for whomever I perceive as being the most pro freedom candidate I can find.
Unintended consequences?
Maybe things have to get worse before they can get better. :evil:
 
yep...

How weird. the NRA puts its votes behind people who can win. What a concept, put your backing behind the candidate that has a shot at winning and holding the demos at bay.

Sorry, but in today's political clime, the libertarian party has absolutely no chance of winning in the national stage. So, why in the world would I cut off my nose to spite my face?

All of you libertarians are right! we should demand the NRA support every libertarian candidate no matter what! that way, we can give the house and senate to the Demos and really watch our gun rights go down the tubes.

In all seriousness, which would you rather have, Chucky Schumer and Diane Feinformetohaveagunbutnotyoustein running things or the republicans where the rights are not eroding. Sometimes, the lesser of two evils is appropriate. Yes we get some Rinos, but we get to keep chairmanships, etc.

and Stoky....Worse before they get better? Do you see anyone repealing the machine gun ban of 1934? What makes you think a magical white horse will come out and get our rights back after they are gone? Has this happened in Great Britain? Where are the waves of conservatives in GB demanding that they get rights back? When have you ever seen a governemnt grant a right back once they have taken it? no thanks, I think I will fight to preserve my rights before I lose them.

oh, and don't talk to people about the economy.... they know they are right, because they know a third cousin twice removed who was downsized and now is out of a job.....So therefore the economy must suck. You cannot confuse these people with facts. We have created 6.6 million new jobs in the last few years, inflation is low and the housing market has boomed, but whew, Fred Murray doesn't have a job! Hmmmmm, maybe Fred should get a skill that someone wants to pay them for. Tis a dynamic economy, work with it and stop waiting for the government cheese.
 
It should be obvious that should the LP ever gain real political power they'll end up acting just like the current big two parties.

Power corrupts and yes it'll corrupt libertarians too. There is nothing about the LP that will keep it from going just as bad just as fast. Their ideology won't make any difference. All ideology breaks down in the face of political reality.
 
Power corrupts and yes it'll corrupt libertarians too. There is nothing about the LP that will keep it from going just as bad just as fast. Their ideology won't make any difference. All ideology breaks down in the face of political reality.
Translation: "Bend over and take it. It doesn't matter who gets elected -- Democrat, Republican, Green, Communist, Nazi -- it's all about the power in the end, and ideology has no effect on behavior once in office."

You really believe that?
 
You really believe that?
I think it's pretty close to the truth, though perhaps not for the reasons given.

I believe that ideology has little effect on behavior in office because the only people who get elected are people who desire power over other people -- and people who desire power over other people ought not be trusted.

So the essential trouble is not that Libertarians would abuse power once in office, it's that Libertarians are not likely to hold major office because no real Libertarian desires power over his fellow man.

Short version: people who seek power should not have power, and it's kind of hard to elect people who don't want to be elected.

In my opinion, the present sytem is broken largely due to #1) the idea outlined above and #2) the people have indeed discovered they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury.

Number two may be fixable, at least theoretically. Number one seems to be a permanent part of the human condition and I haven't the slightest idea what to do about it.
 
NRA wants to back the winning horse, they have tried and true methods and they stick to them, but it would be nice for them to show the Libertarians more support considering that the only way a new party can get started is for people to endorse it people like GOA or people like the NRA. The Libertarian party is significantly better party for gun owners than the republicans or dems atleast in my opinion.
 
What can the Libertarian Party do for me? They can't even consistently win local elections and I'm supposed to believe that they'll be capable of running the country? Based on what practical experience?

I went down that path once upon a time and saw the utter disorganization of the LP in the '70s. Sheesh, what a disappointment.

John
 
There is a great danger that an organization engaged in politics will itself become politicized. It is up to NRA members to insure that it remains a national rights association and not some sort of new Republican advocacy group.

Also there is still the problem of their agreeing to "assault weapon" bans. Who are they to make deals with your rights? How aren't these silly little guns included in the Second Amendment? They are obviously rifles that a "militia" would have. Is the NRA advocating for you or to you?

Watch the NRA carefully and let them know loudly when they stray. If you can't fix the organization then the game will be over in a few decades or less. Once these rights are gone I don't imagine they will be given again no matter how nicely people ask. Better to not lose them in the first place.
 
Also there is still the problem of their agreeing to "assault weapon" bans. Who are they to make deals with your rights? How aren't these silly little guns included in the Second Amendment? They are obviously rifles that a "militia" would have. Is the NRA advocating for you or to you?

Are you suggesting that the NRA supports the AWB? Happen to have a citation for that one?
 
The Libertarian party is significantly better party for gun owners than the republicans

Oh yeah.

Like, there's all that bad legislation that didn't pass because the Libertarians in Congress filibustered it, and the good legislation we now have, thanks to the effective leadership of all the Libertarians in Washington.

What would gun owners do if we had to rely on those damned Republicans and a few stray Democrats to look after our interests? We'd be screwed!

BTW I just bet $10,000 on the San Diego Padres to win the World Series this week. I mean, they're not IN the World Series, but they're my favorite team. I'm a Libertarian haha heehee hoohoo. They're coming to take me away. (I really AM a Libertarian, but I question my own sanity for it.)
 
So I Googled 'libertarians in washington' and after scrolling through the Washington state listing I came upon this: http://libertarian.meetup.com/283/?gj=sj5

________________________
Libertarian DC
A libertarian meetup.

Note our backup site:
http://groups.yah... group/ LibertarianMeetupDC/
Location: Washington, DC 38.89-77.03 20004US
Founded: Apr 22, 2006
Member Fee: none Rating: No recent ratings
Members: 37
Meetups: 3 so far
________________________


:) Members: 37

:) Meetups: 3 so far

I know, I know, it doesn't prove anything. OTOH, it would be sad if it wasn't so funny.

John
 
Actually, in the last month or so I've seen a couple of articles from economists on different news sites like CNN and MSNBC warning that the world economy may be close to collapsing.

Ignore it all you want, and pretend it isn't there, because the "economic signs" our media feeds us don't want us to know, but a collapse is coming.
 
Actually, in the last month or so I've seen a couple of articles from economists on different news sites like CNN and MSNBC warning that the world economy may be close to collapsing.


Of course you saw that, because Bush and the GOP are in control.


Reminds me of the Reagan days...ABC, NBC, and CBS (all we had back then really)...would run those non-stop soup-line stories. They'd complain about the massive defense spending, then cut right to a story about the homeless. I was young, but I was a geek and I watched the news and I remember. Yet, during Clinton, the poor were buying homes, and the future of mankind looked bright and prosperous.

Check this out.

In the 1990's we had a market boom with a market high. Most of the media attributed this directly to Clinton and his god-like genius. DOW highs were seen in articles and headlines that would imply that the wealth is going to trickle down (how hypocritical being they hated Reagan's trickle down economics).


Fast forward to today. Our market is at an all-time high. It isn't being credited to Bush. Many articles have said things like "Market all time high, most Americans left behind" and to that effect. In other words, market is doing great, but it's only for the rich cronies at the top - but that wasn't the case during the Clinton days :rolleyes:



As if the liberal progressives and their mass-media bias isn't enough, we have the libertarians who are the prophets of doom and the saboteurs of the rightwing.


These guys hate everyone because they aren't a real party and will never gain power so they have to accept their "business model" as appealing to those who are disgusted and choose to disengage from the process and criticize from a distance. They aren't remotely serious about being a political party, but rather offer a service for the pissed off and dejected people who feel betrayed by the corrupt system we have.


Many libertarian sites are constantly discussing this massive economic collapse...but it doesn't come. I guess if you say it for 40-50 years, and when or if it happens, then you can claim you were right :rolleyes:


I am suspect of the libertarians, because for being such free-market types, they seem to hate Republicans a whole lot more than Democrats. The vitriol and the viciousness wasn't as high toward the socialists as it is toward the GOP. Makes you wonder how many of these libertarian sites and organizations are funded by the Democratic Party???

Reading many libertarian sites, many of them were former Democrats - not former republicans.


That's a great strategy you know. The GOP did it to the Democrats with the Green Party, but the leftists have woken up and they realized that voting Green is like voting for the GOP. Something libertarians obviously don't get.


Another thing to note is that the leftist progressives have not run away from the Democratic Party...they instead worked on reforming it and now they've taken over it. The Democratic Party isn't your grandfather's Democratic Party (not that it makes them any batter back then, but maybe a little). This is the party of Soros, Michael Moore and all the most nasty socialist mini-Hitlers and Bolsheviks.


Some right wingers would say that with these politics, they'll never win. I disagree, if people always voted on principle, that would hold true, but for some reason the American people feel the need (collectively) to change regardless of the situation because they believe that change is good, even if things are going well. At some point along the line, you have to switch gears, regardless of speed, and not care if you destroy the tranny.


Given that, they will eventually elect these leftist scumbags and they might do it this year.


So in the end, the progressives won. They reformed their party and they've waited it out until they got in. Perhaps we should reform the Republican party, then wait till we get in?


In 1994 and all the years after in which we've handed the GOP victory after victory, we elected the Republican part as-is. We never worked to reform it into a more libertarian minded party. Never. Not one bit. Despite this, they've been pretty darn friendly to the RKBA. Compared to their days in the 1980's.


Maybe we can learn something from these neo-Bolsheviks? Because the way I see it, voting for the Republicans now keeps our RKBA intact as is, but it doesn't move us forward, voting for the libertarians gets us more gun control because we're just handing over the election to the stalinists.
 
LMAO

I just bet $10,000 on the San Diego Padres to win the World Series this week. I mean, they're not IN the World Series, but they're my favorite team. I'm a Libertarian haha heehee hoohoo.

That for me says it all. :neener: :neener: :neener:
 
I dont think the nra has anything against libertarians. I think the just through their support behind a candidaite that had a fighting chance of winning. I.E. I vote for libertarian and constitution paty candidtes at times, but out of all the people in my district, I was one of about 4 people last election.

mike
 
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