NRA doesn't want Supreme Court to hear 2nd Amend Case

Discussion in 'Legal' started by usmarine0352_2005, Nov 11, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,796
    Because if the 2nd Amendment is declared an "Individual" right, then the NRA will no longer be needed.

    This is what the Anti's are saying.

    However, this is false.

    Because, if it is declared an "Individual" right, there will be years, decades of court battles to be fought to over-turn existing gun laws.


    We should hear by Tues, if they are going to grant cert (take the case). This will probably be the most important 2nd Amendment Case, ever, if taken.
     
  2. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Messages:
    5,441
    Location:
    Allentown, Pennsylvania
    I'll bet that even the Supreme Court Justices are sweating bullets about this case.


    It could change the status quo of our entire society considerably.
     
  3. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,796
    If they do grant cert....which it seems they will, why would they be scared?
     
  4. Thain

    Thain Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    704
    Location:
    Lansing, Michigan
    Yes, clearly if the Second Ammendment is declared an individual right just like the First Ammendment then the NRA can fold its tent. After all, the ACLU was no longer needed after those First Ammendment rulings.

    The "Antis," and even many shooters, also forget about the myriad other things the NRA does besides lobby. Hunter safey, basic marksmanhsip, Eddie Eagle, competitions, conservation... There is so much more to the NRA than the NRA-ILA.

    I mean, when was the last time Handgun Control, Inc. sponsored some fun family weekend activity in your town? When was the last time the NRA held a local trap shoot? (With church fundraiser BBQ lunch, and Boy Scout popcorn snacks!)
     
  5. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2007
    Messages:
    4,828
    Location:
    South Western, OK
    "I mean, when was the last time Handgun Control, Inc. sponsored some fun family weekend activity in your town?"

    Bingo. You would think that at the very least, HCI would teach gun safety to kids.
     
  6. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,940
    Location:
    Metro Detroit, Michigan
    The NRA was around a LONG time before political lobbying became necessary, they will survive the ruling OK.
     
  7. tasco 74

    tasco 74 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    855
    Location:
    iowa u.s.a.
    U.S. MARINE
    if it happens the way you mentioned about the courts turning over rediculous gun laws i'll join the N R A again...
     
  8. Big45

    Big45 member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2007
    Messages:
    619
    Location:
    behind enemy lines...NO MORE. Made it to Free Ari
    Oh please, they can declare absolutely whatever they want, not much is going to change.

    Guns are big business, and money still does all the talking around here, not silly, old people in black robes.
     
  9. ronwill

    ronwill Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Georgia
    From the mailings I've received the NRA does want the case to be heard by SCOTUS. The anti's will just start looking for loop holes if the decision comes out an individual right.
     
  10. Ohen Cepel

    Ohen Cepel Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2003
    Messages:
    4,224
    Location:
    Where they tell me to go
    I think the NRA doesn't want it heard since they win that way.

    If the court doesn't hear the case, then the lower court ruling striking down the DC law stands. It would be foolish for the NRA to want it heard.

    If the court doesn't hear it we win automatically. If they hear it we risk losing.
     
  11. CNYCacher

    CNYCacher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,043
    Location:
    Auburn, NY
    Ohen, it sounds as though you believe that the ruling being allowed to stand will make a national precedent. I am not sure but I think it will only be a valid precedent for the areas covered by the DC circuit.
     
  12. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2006
    Messages:
    5,356
    Location:
    Oregon
    Then the NRA can go back to it's original purpose, building riflemen.
    I'd be way more excited about the brady bunch and HCI no longer being needed (if they determined "shall not be infringed" means exactly that and tell them to pound sand).
     
  13. armoredman

    armoredman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    18,220
    Location:
    proud to be in AZ
    Hear, hear!:cool:
     
  14. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,796
    I think they will, sadly, always be here.

    Just as if it was declared a collective right, the NRA wouldn't just pack up and leave.
     
  15. mack

    mack Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    513
    As has been documented the NRA did not initially want this case brought because they were afraid of a supreme court ruling that would go against them for a collective not individual right. The NRA tried to talk Levy, (the atty who put the case together), from taking it to court. When that didn't work they tried to bring their own suit, one that involved alot of other issues, issues that the court could use as grounds to make a ruling on the case without involving or addressing the issue of the second amendment. They then tried to get the court to join their case to Levy's case so it would muddy up the waters and allow the court to bounce both cases a once without having to address the second amendment. The judge involved didn't go for it and instead kept the cases seperate. The NRA's case then got bounced on issues of I believe standing. The Levy case didn't get bounced of course. On appeal after losing initially, the veridct of the appeals court supported an individual right in the Levy brought Parker, now Heller case. After that precedent breaking verdict the NRA then tried to use their political muscle to get the senate and house to pass a bill repealing the DC gun laws at issue in the court case. If they would have suceeded the case would have been moot and there would be no precedent set in the DC circuit affirming an individual right and there would have been no appeal to the supreme court. Levy and a number of NRA members, (myself included), at this point became quite livid at the attempt to sabotage the case by the NRA. When it became clear that they could not prevent the case from being appealed the NRA seems to have decided to go along with the case and support it, albiet kicking and screaming.

    So, no the NRA at least initially did not want this case to be brought or heard by the court. The reason, or so I am told, is that they were afraid of losing and because they felt that politically they would/could/were/or have made progress and that they would continue to make progress. That if the supreme court found the second amendment to be a collective right then the NRA and the pro-gun movement would lose a lot of precious support and political clout and the door would be wide open for any and all gun control.

    Publically at least the leadership of the NRA is now supporting this case and if this case is won, i.e. the second is established as an individual right, then the NRA -even if they did try to initially prevent this case, will have to have some of the credit because of the work they have done on changing public and political opinion and in supporting second amendment scholarship.
     
  16. Gunnerpalace

    Gunnerpalace Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,092
    Location:
    Somewhere in Michigan
    Interesting story, just proves other things I already knew about them, I found it strange when it all started to develop why the NRA was not going in but rather the SAF was there, it is situations like mack describes that I don't support the NRA, SAF is where I go, IMO(stressing the IMO part) I feel the EO's of the NRA should not be making 500,000 a year and wanting more funds But...that's just me. They do good things (the new shooter education part is the best),but for some reason they just seem Zumbo-ish to me but as long as they overall support the RKBA I'm fine, it is a big change from the "2nd Amen applies to hunting" mentality they had years ago.
     
  17. glennv

    glennv Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    Messages:
    233
    The NRA will have plenty of things to do if the case goes our way. A pro 2nd ruling won't protect us against UN backed gun control.
     
  18. alucard0822

    alucard0822 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,229
    Location:
    Westminster, MD
    In a perfect world, heller would win the case on monday, and I would be able to walk into my neighborhood gun shop and walk out with a suppressed m-16 with nothing more than a flash of my Driver's Liscence, and an ear to ear grin. That isn't going to happen from heller. The case is basically centered around the fact that Dc has a complete ban on handguns, and the constitutionality of that ban is to be challenged on the basis of the 2A stating "the right of the people", actually meaning that people have a right. If Won, I think the media, and gun control groups everywhere will squeal like the pigs they are, it will put similar bans in Chicago and NY under the microscope, and once those bans are challenged, they will become de-facto, more so than actual bans. This is the back and forth nature of the debate, get hit with an AWB and gain CC rights, gain protection from lawsuits and lose the right to own new production machine guns. This will always be a struggle, there will be new and innovative ways to ban more people from owning guns, or ban guns themselves, regulate ammunition, tax components into oblivion, and so on. It doesn't really matter where the law stands today, the harder we push, the more rights we restore, the more comfortable and complacent we are, the more we will lose. Can't recall who said it but appropriately "the price of freedom is constant vigilence"
     
  19. Thain

    Thain Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    704
    Location:
    Lansing, Michigan
    I don't think the NRA is "Zumbo-ish," just very cautious.. sometime overly so.

    But, I'd rather send my dollars to the National Federation of Fudds then let the Brady Camapign dominate the issue. The most adamant beleiver of "guns-are-for-pheasants-get-off-my-private-estate-you-dirty-peasant!" is still more closely my kin than Sarah Brady.

    A slightly dimwitted, inbred, poorly dressed, and funny smelling Third Cousin, twice removed... but he's still part of the RKBA family tree, and not standing next to it with a chainsaw like the Antis.
     
  20. SoCalShooter

    SoCalShooter Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,091
    Location:
    That's for me to know and not you!
    I disagree with your assessment if the SCOTUS rules in our favor groups like GOA and the NRA will always need to stand vigilant. Just because it is a law or a ruling does not mean that it is not subject to loss.
     
  21. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    24,038
    Location:
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    Leftist extremists thrive upon lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, and the occasional shamelessly distorted fact.

    That said™, I see no reason for us to assume the Supreme Court will rule in favor of the Second Amendment. I sincerely hope my fears prove unfounded, of course, but government always seems to look after the interests of government first, last, and always.
     
  22. Deavis

    Deavis Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2003
    Messages:
    1,423
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    Joining the team after the win sort of defeats the purpose, doesn't it? Don't judge someone by what they do in the good times but what they do in the tough times. The NRA made mistakes in this matter but they do a LOT of good outside the legal sphere as well. Many close minded individuals or conspiracy nuts miss that point, but why should that suprise anyone?
     
  23. cavman

    cavman Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    1,002
    Location:
    Maine
    Assuming the Supreme Court takes the case and declares that it is an individual right not a "collective right".

    How would that change the myriad rules and regulations that are out there. To name a few:

    1. Maryland State Police now says that they can look into one's health records before deciding if one get a firearm.
    http://www.myguns.net/Articles/mental3.htm

    2. Fingerprinting

    3. May Issue (at the discretion if the Sheriff) rather than Shall Issue.

    4. etc etc

    I don't see how a positive ruling affects any of the prohibitions that keep people from "freely keeping and bearing arms" across any broad spectrum at all.


    Perhaps someone could enlighten me?

    The NRA, SAF, GOA, JFPO, and the like will have their work doubled as firearm ownership continues to be regulated out of reach.

    I don't see how all the hoops, which will be thrown up and will be continued to be thrown up, will be stopped by Heller.
     
  24. Gun Wielding Maniac

    Gun Wielding Maniac Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    466
    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    Yes, the NRA wants Heller to win. Yes, initially they were opposed to the lawsuit on the grounds that they thought it was unwinnable. However, they changed their minds.

    NRA has filed Amicus briefs along with Heller. They're providing lawyers, funding, and legal council as well. I'd say that is pretty strong support.
     
  25. Maximum1

    Maximum1 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Messages:
    284
    Really? NRA link please which shows Us that position?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice