NRA Headquarters…deteriorating???

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by OneFreeTexan, Sep 12, 2021.

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  1. Insignificant bill

    Insignificant bill Member

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  2. Insignificant bill

    Insignificant bill Member

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    Unchecked power always leads to corruption. History bears it out.
     
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  3. kwguy

    kwguy Member

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    Well, virtue signaling in any form, even the type that gets “minorities, etc, blah blah” into the 2A is ridiculous, shallow, and is easily seen through for what it is: patronizing pandering, and is very insulting. If someone can’t see the value of armed resistance against tyrants with just the most rudimentary of basic explanation, then they are lost.

    One of the things I do like about certain organizations, including the NRA, is that they don’t pander simply because someone is a minority. That being said, I can understand why that is seen as having value, because it can rally more people to the “cause”. My personal “perfect world” take on it is that they shouldn’t need to be patronized and pandered to, in order to see the value of the 2A. Not just getting groceries (hunting) or home defense (really?!), but as a stand against tyranny. However, my “perfect world” view and “the real world” aren’t the same. I get it.

    Unfortunately, for the same reasons that some
    feel that the NRA, or other pro 2A organizations need to pander and patronize minorities, we also need to “pander” to swamp creature politicians who couldn’t care less about the 2A, only their political greed. I thought this is where the NRA and WLP might have an advantage. It shouldn’t have to be that way, because the Constitution isn’t hard to read, and some truths are “Self Evident”, yet here we are, debating over “hunting”, and “sporting use” and 30 round magazines. What a joke.

    Along that line, anyone who actually tries to downplay the 2A against tyrannical resistance simply isn’t living in, or is anywhere remotely aware of, the real world. Not the gilded world of social media and online shopping, but the actual world of violence, conflict, and oppression resolution. For all of our tech: nukes, jets, gunships, etc, wars are prosecuted, at the real bottom level, by individuals with rifles. I’m sure many on this forum have first hand experience of what I mean. That fancy gunship is really nice, but when 20 people with rifles open up on you from 500 feet, the reality of technological vulnerability sets it. Pistols let people shoot each other in the streets. That’s not a threat to .gov power. Rifles let people fight against tyranny.

    All that being said: WLP. I haven’t really seen any of his speeches. Other NRA spokespersons, like C. Noir, have it right. If WLP is indeed selling out the real reason for the 2A, and not defending it as a defense against tyranny, then he can go; however, if his “heart is in the right place” as to the true intent of the 2A, and he’s effective at defending it, then I don’t care about the other stuff. I consider it “Pay to Play” for our rights. As sad as that is, that is the world we are in. But if he’s not, then he can go, which, is apparently the case?
     
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  4. GEM

    GEM Moderator Emeritus

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    I do not regard being inclusive as pandering. Enough said about that world view.

    I also do not accept immoral behavior as acceptable even it benefits me. We will differ on that , especially when the solution is easy.
     
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  5. kwguy

    kwguy Member

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    That’s the nice thing about world views. They’re regarded differently.

    Generally speaking, from the NYAG lawsuit and obvious political targeting of the group, (which is also corruption between the NY political machine and the AG), I see corruption being brought to light about yacht use, clothing budget discrepancies, airplane use, some rent for property. I’m not saying that’s cool, but it’s really just budget dust. More has been spent on the lawsuits by now.

    I also saw mention of some infighting among some of the upper echelon members of the group.

    I see that WLP has a multi million dollar Golden Umbrella deal. That’s to be expected of a CEO-Lobbyist.

    I see they didn’t take any federal Covid money, unlike some anti groups. And that they were in the “black” budget wise last year, which seems surprising, but not necessarily bad.

    Unless my quick internet search missed something big, I’m not seeing the huge level of criminal behavior that everyone else seems to be in tune with. Am I missing something else?

    It seems this is a targeted political-legal hit, along the same lines of cancelling lines of credit and bank accounts for pro 2A entities, etc. They’re going to bleed them to death, and then dance on the grave and crow about their victory. Someone earlier mentioned Ollie North instead of WLP. That’s cool. Think it’ll stop them? No way. I can only imagine the negative press on that one. All of a sudden, everyone in the media will be experts on stuff that happened in the ‘80’s.

    The organization is in their sights. It doesn’t, and won’t matter, whose in charge, the targeting won’t stop. To them, the NRA is THE symbol of their hate for the 2A. They don’t actually care about the petty corruption that they themselves also partake in. It doesn’t matter that there are other groups that may pick up the torch and run with it. It doesn’t matter that the internet and social media (for now, at least) have helped us band together and bring more people into the pro 2A fold than any targeted ad campaigns could have.

    Once they take down the NRA, they will be able to use that as a symbol against the RKBA. That’s what they really want with their targeting.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
  6. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    Peruse the 189 pages of the NY attorney generals summons and find considerably more than yacht use, clothing and airplane use:

    Microsoft Word - Amended and Supplemental NYAG Complaint - 8.16.2021 (FINAL FINAL) - 2.48pm (state.ny.us)

    After the NRA dumpster fire lit off at the convention the NY attorney general began looking at the NRA dirty laundry.
     
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  7. kwguy

    kwguy Member

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    Not really gonna.

    I fully expect there to be a lot of “horrible” stuff in there, but at the end of the day, it’s completely politically motivated. There are way more important things for the NYAG to go after. If it was THAT bad, there’d be arrests and criminal charges filed by now, I’m sure.

    All political.
     
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  8. mcb

    mcb Member

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    WOW, nice way to put you head in the sand...

    The biggest evidence that at least some of those accusations, that you refuse to read, are true is the growing list of people that have resigned or been driven out of the NRA leadership since all this broke out in the open in early 2019 (just before the annual meeting), for standing up to WLP and his cronies and their mismanagement of the organization and its funds:

    Oliver North, President
    Pete Brownells, Board of Directors
    Chris Cox, Chief Lobbyist
    Esther Schneider, Board of Directors
    Sean Maloney, Board of Directors
    Timothy Knight, Board of Directors
    Julie Golob, Board of Directors
    Craig Morgan, Board of Directors
    Richard Childress, Board of Directors
    David Lehman, Deputy Executive director and General Counsel
    Dan Boren, Board of Directors
    Duane Liptak, Board of Directors

    I am not say the NY Attorney General is doing what they are doing for the pro-2A community's benefit but the NYAG actions do not somehow make what WLP et al is doing acceptable or ignorable. They are both in the wrong. I will not support WLP and the NRA just because the NYAG is irrationally anti-2A and going after them, the NRA has to have earned my support and right now they have not.

    The enemy of my enemy is sometime my enemy too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
  9. kwguy

    kwguy Member

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    Fine. It’s because none of that stuff really matters.

    In the end all this really is, is the downfall of a powerful 2A organization, orchestrated by powerful anti groups. That’s pretty much it. Sure, the organization had weaknesses that were able to be exploited by NY. What organization doesn’t? If it wasn’t those weaknesses, it’d be something else. There’s always a weakness able to be exploited. The how, why or whatever doesn’t really matter, and all the political-legal intrigue about it is pretty boring. It’s a loss for us, and a win for them. And putting in new “leadership” won’t stop them. They must destroy the name “NRA”, and they will. It’s a symbol, and has to go. They’ve got all the time in the world, and all the marbles. And we chase the bouncing ball.

    It doesn’t matter if a race is lost because the driver sucks or the engine throws a rod. A loss is a loss.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
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  10. GEM

    GEM Moderator Emeritus

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    The 'downfall' so to speak was because of issues of vulnerability generated by the organization's leadership. Without that, they might have this line of attack. That is very simple.

    If a leader generates the flaw which the enemy exploits, how can one not say that the leader needs replacement?

    It does matter that one can fix the flaw, be it mechanical or personnel. Lincoln replaced a general whom was well supported by a coterie of followers. McClellan wasn't doing the job.

    Do you not think that if someone of perceived integrity and a new staff replaced WLP and cronies, we would be in a better position?

    If you want to 'win' an individual is expendable. Why argue to keep a negative asset.
     
  11. kwguy

    kwguy Member

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    I’m not arguing to keep him. Y’all have proven the point about that. I’m saying that it doesn’t matter. The anti’s have mobilized against the organization, and they will find a weakness, regardless who is in charge. They’ll keep doing what they do to wear things down. All that will change on the complaint documents are the names. They’ll keep grinding. This is different than in the past, because the forces arrayed against them are more organized. NY State and the AG?! Really? With the cohorts and power of Bloomberg and the Gifford’s stuff all in the background?

    When membership jumped up to 5 million or so about 10 years ago, that made them take notice, and that’s when they really got serious about bringing it down. I’d like to hope I’m wrong, but they’re working to bring it down through attrition.
     
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  12. GEM

    GEM Moderator Emeritus

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    That doesn't make sense. Basically, you are saying that it is hopeless and leadership doesn't matter because the cause is lost? The enemy is implacable and cannot be defeated.

    So better to spend your dues on another organization or beer!
     
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  13. kwguy

    kwguy Member

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    I’d like to see it recover. That is our most powerful political symbol, but I don’t see how.

    For instance, how did they vote WLP back in with all this going on? Clearly my lack of understanding of the architecture of the organization is apparent, but I’m curious...
     
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  14. GEM

    GEM Moderator Emeritus

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    Sigh, with no offense - you really need to read up on the goings on and how the board and elections work. Someone else might post the links for that, if they please.
     
  15. kwguy

    kwguy Member

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    I know, I just haven’t time, and didn’t really feel it was necessary (OMG!! I sound like my kids!). I did my membership and hoped they would just advocate for our 2A rights. As sad as it is to have to even NEED such an organization, but that’s another discussion.

    So what is their plan? To fight and win the lawsuits? They did relocate right? But that was to no avail for the court stuff?
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
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  16. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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  17. kwguy

    kwguy Member

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  18. Tirod

    Tirod Member

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    Whether or not it was intentional, the WLP regime created an environment of corruption which will lead to its dissolution. If the NRA survives, it may well be at the local levels where members still do what they signed on for - training, range operations etc.

    At the national level its past time to clean house. If the NYAG can see issues - even if they are only relevant to their political exploitation, then it's the current administration's failure to keep things running that resist scrutiny.

    It's past time to let it go as there is nothing but gain for our political enemies to harvest. We need to be siphoning off the field activities and get them out from under the control of Hqs. Before things like the national shooting ranges are permanently closed or sold off.

    We had a similar situation, brand new dirt track on the periphery of town. It was in operation but a very wealthy individual took exception to the noise level, and the public wasn't pleased with it either. Instead of being responsive, they continued to ignore the problem - because "race cars don't use no mufflers, you fools."

    After enough pressure the track sold to the wealthy man, who abandoned it completely, and the street car crowd broke into it - among others - trashed the facility and it's now in ruins. But, it's quiet. I can remember hearing it run on Friday night - 9 miles away.

    They didn't have the advantage of being there before the rich man complained, and didn't have the money to fight him. The result was complete failure, which as a business entity is labeled incompetence.

    The NRA is exhibiting massive incompetence and it's likely past the point of saving it.
     
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  19. N9NWO

    N9NWO Member

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    What many of these folks fail to understand is that if the NRA goes down so does GOA, SAF, NAGR among others.
     
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  20. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Expound on that. How does the corruption and poor management of the NRA leadership that has jeopardized the NRA as a whole also jeopardized other non-affiliated pro-2A groups. I don't see it.
     
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  21. GEM

    GEM Moderator Emeritus

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    And how does keeping that crew save the NRA?
     
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  22. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    Neither do i
     
  23. kwguy

    kwguy Member

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    Hmmm. Seems like a house of cards.

    So, what does the NRA do, that the other groups cannot? Influence politicians? Money? Influence?
     
  24. N9NWO

    N9NWO Member

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    huge influence. no other olefination has that
     
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  25. kwguy

    kwguy Member

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    Yeah, that’s what I figured. Losing that would really hurt.
     
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