NRA

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by army_eod, Feb 20, 2021.

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  1. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Question: how separate are these two organizations? How involved is WLP and the rest of the NRA board with the NRA-ILA? A very clearly documented separation would need to be illustrated to me, because currently in my mind the NRA-ILA is as tainted to me as the NRA in general is due to WLP and his cronies. This may be a mistake on my part but I have not done the research to know either way. At current my support is going to FPC because I really like what they are doing and the way they are doing it.
     
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  2. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    They are separate from a corporate standpoint as is the Foundation. I doubt anyone can answer the question of which influences the other without looking at the boards of each.
     
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  3. hps1

    hps1 Member

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    Member since 1952, Life/1962......Benefactor 2000, as is my wife. Son & grand-kids all Life members. 1994-2000 Chair, 2001-2010 Co-Chair, 2011-2016 Member of county FONRA Committee raising funds used for range construction, youth firearms training. Membership recruiter for years........you might say, I'm committed.

    NRA, even with the current issues, is still the most effective organization in our corner. If you do not believe it, just pay attention to which organization is constantly in the sights of the anti-crowd as illustrated by the NY AG's attempt to destroy the organization. You never hear a legislator mention the other organizations in their anti-gun rants, do you?

    So, to OP, and all others interested in preserving our 2A rights, which are under attack as in no time in the past, the obvious answer is yes. Come on in, the water's warming up fast; help fix the problem from within, it's a lot more effective than sitting on the sidelines and sniping.

    For the naysayers, there have been many NRA 2A victories over the years, if not for which, you would not be enjoying our chosen sport as we know it today.

    NRA's strength, their clout, so to speak, lies in sheer membership numbers, followed very closely by their budget. As has been mentioned above, NRA is made up of many different branches. NRA, NRA-ILA, NRA Foundation (FONRA), etc.

    I've been privileged to be involved in many NRA battles to preserve our 2A rights for may years, the most memorable of which was the 1986 Firearms Owners Protection Act. This is the bill that has allowed us all to purchase firearms, ammunition, loading components via mail for the past 35 years.

    There were sufficient votes in the House to pass the bill, but it was being held captive in committee. We lacked one vote to force the bill out of committee for full vote. My congressman was sitting on the fence. Made numerous phone calls to his office and, long story short, he did sign the discharge petition and the bill was passed.
    This is how NRA members affect the 2A, plain & simple, NUMBERS COUNT.


    As kwguy says, join and support the other organizations, such as GOA, TSRA, JPFO, etc; the more the merrier, but it is NRA's 5 million members + that trumps the combined membership of all the others combined, and the simple fact is,it is the numbers that count.

    Regards,
    hps
     
  4. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    All that is true. However, as I said the solution is simple. Have a real vote for real leadership - that would make the numbers count for an effective organization. The attacks would not have the effects they have having now, if not for failed leadership.
     
  5. Jack63

    Jack63 Member

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    Back in the 80s I was a member but in the 90s and 2000 no! Not until they get new blood and let the old leave like wayne he been there since I graduated H.S and done nothing!!!!
     
  6. hps1

    hps1 Member

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    Absolutely! We're on the same page; not defending WLP, just pointing out the opposition's use of "divide and conquer" very effectively, making it all the more important for us to present a united front.

    ETA: For the benefit of the naysayers who believe NRA is doing nothing for their states rights, do your research. Check out this thread to keep up on what is going on legislatively, and learn what NRA is doing on your behalf, both in court and in legislatures across the nation.

    Latest NRA-ILA ALERTS in Activism thread here:
    https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/latest-nra-ila-alerts-this-thread-is-for-your-information-only-no-comments-replies-please.849343/page-12

    Just a few examples of NRA's participation in various state infringements picked at random from that thread:


    LEGAL & LEGISLATION
    NRA Applauds Attorneys General Amicus Brief in New York Carry Case at the Supreme Court
    In December, The National Rifle Association’s Institute for Legislative Action (NRA-ILA) partnered with the New York State Rifle and Pistol Association and asked the Supreme Court to hear a challenge to New York’s restrictive process for issuing concealed carry licenses.

    [​IMG] Virginia
    Virginia: NRA Sues Fairfax County Over Parks Ban
    Virginia: House Passes Anti-Gun Bills

    [​IMG] Maryland
    Plaintiffs in NRA Backed Lawsuit Ask Court to Hold Maryland Handgun Law Unconstitutional
    Maryland: Senate Committee Passes Wear & Carry Preliminary Approval

    [​IMG]

    Regards,
    hps
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
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  7. Commader47

    Commader47 member

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    Wayne LaPierre is the most cost effective leader the NRA has ever had. People who bad mouth him have no clue as to what the NRA is doing. Folks who say the NRA is mismanaged don't have any sense of real world business.

    Some folks say the NRA mismanages funds....Really? REALLY? Who do you want representing us in DC? The Big Lebowski or a well dressed lawyer? The whole mismanaged money thing was a ploy by New York liberals to split the membership of the NRA. And it succeeded. The anti gunners love it when we are divided. United we are strong. Divided we are weak. We are strong with NRA.

    If you want to influence government Congressional reps do you take them to Golden Corral or Ruths? It is not that complicated.

    The other gun organizations are no where near as influential, powerful or successful as the NRA. Simple as that. And it costs a lot of money to run a multi million dollar organization.

    https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/nra-waynelapierre-newyork-texas/2021/02/17/id/1010469/

    Wayne LaPierre has single handedly, with help of the NRA organization, done more to protect and expand legal gun owners rights than anyone on this forum, or probably the entire U.S. They have the most clout and most savvy, most contacts, full time lobbyers, lawyers and legal machine to deal with the CONSTANT attack on our freedoms. Libs love to plus up the NRA CEO's salary. He gets travel expenses medical and a retirement package. LIKE ALL CEO"s and most employees!!!!

    For what he has done.....WLP is a BARGAIN.

    Wayne LaPierre NRA CEO base pay: 985,000
    United way CEO: 1,578,000
    Wildlife Conservation CEO 1,300,000
    St Judes Childrens CEO 1,200,000
    Goodwill Ind.CEO 2,000,000
    CEO of the Boys and Girls clubs of america is paid 1.8 million.
     
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  8. Phydeaux642

    Phydeaux642 Member

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    Not everyone in the gun industry holds your view of Wayne. He's just a politician that found a way to make himself wealthy by playing on the other side of the fence...and figured a way around having himself booted out.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
  9. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    I think someone mentioned the idea of contributing to either NRA-ILA (Lobbying efforts) and/or NRA-PVF (PAC-Political Action Committee to help get candidates elected) as a middle of the road alternative to joining the NRA. My question to that is aren't contributions to PAC's recorded and made public by Federal law?
     
  10. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Remember all the wasted spending he is accused of is far and above that base salary. If he had spent part of his 985k on all those suits, well that is his money to do with as he likes but the funds he has misused are funds that lie outside of his compensation. The funds were money members thought were going to be use to further 2A issues not buy expensive suits and wine and dine WLP and his cronies.

    In addition to a lot of rank and file members not agreeing with his use/waste of memberships' donations the following people high in the NRA organization also objected and were either forced out or resigned due to the behavior and spending of WLP and his cohorts.

    Oliver North, President, 04/27/19
    Pete Brownells, Iowa, Board of Directors 05/30/19
    Chris Cox, Chief Lobbyist 06/20/19
    Esther Schneider, Texas, Board of Directors 08/01/19
    Sean Maloney, Ohio, Board of Directors 08/01/19
    Timothy Knight, Tennessee, Board of Directors 08/01/19
    Julie Golob, Missouri, Board of Directors 08/12/19
    Craig Morgan, Board of Directors 08/20/19
    Richard Childress, Board of Directors 08/20/19
    David Lehman, Deputy Executive director and General Counsel 08/20/19

    WLP is a tainted leader and by extension so is the NRA as long as he is still in power for a growing number of 2A supporters. He is also untouchable by the organization's membership. There is no way for the membership to "vote" him out his position of power. Through manipulation of the bylaws of the NRA over the years WLP is now in a position that in not directly answerable to the rank and file members or even the elected board or directors elected by the rank and file members. A leader of such an organization that is no longer accountable to its membership is a very bad thing even if he was a "perfect angel" and all indication are that he is far from angelic. So not only does WLP need to leave but the power structure of the NRA needs to be restructured so that all of its leaders are answerable to the membership before I will give another dime to the organization. Without the restructuring we will simply replacing WLP with WLP version B.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
  11. Hokkmike

    Hokkmike Member

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    Guess it depends on how much money you got... I LIKE the NRA but have a few concerns. I do believe, however, that it is probably the most effective outlet for gun rights. I suppose that if I could afford a lifetime membership I would get one. If they promised to stop the constant appeals for yet more money from me I certify would...
     
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  12. Insignificant bill

    Insignificant bill Member

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    Unfortunately corruption and holding on to power seems to be more important, that's what makes being a member so tough of a decision.
     
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  13. JERRY

    JERRY Member

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    wlp and his bod have to go before I sign up again. however, wlp won't do that because his ego is bigger than the NRA.
     
  14. jamesinalaska

    jamesinalaska Member

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    To continue to support the NRA is like betting on a crippled racehorse. Fire Wayne LaPierre, retire Oliver North and reshape the NRA into a reformed organisation that can win some races.
     
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  15. JERRY

    JERRY Member

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    the only people that can save the NRA at this point are wlp and the bod by stepping down.
     
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  16. P5 Guy

    P5 Guy Member

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    Keep repeating the main stream media's propaganda, Bloomberg thanks you.
     
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  17. kwguy

    kwguy Member

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    Exactly
     
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  18. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Even if we assume the media is lying to us, and set aside the stories of those I listed above the were forced out or left the NRA leadership due to the misuse of members funds. This scandal (true or otherwise) has cause me to research and realize that the NRA as an organization is broken. An organization that is suppose to represent a membership has a leadership structure that is not answerable to the membership, this is a fact and not a lie from the media. This is unacceptable for such a political lobbying organization and that alone is reason enough for me to not support the NRA even if there was no alleged misconduct by the organization's untouchable leadership. Such an organizational system invites poor behavior and it appears we might have gotten it with WLP and his cronies.

    And more directly to the OP original question. Despite being a life member of the NRA I have come to the conclusion that a life membership in a lobbying organization such as the NRA is a bad idea in general even if the organization is a well run one. Your single loudest voice to influence the organization is with your continued financial support. If you become a life member you give up some of that voice since they have your support for life whether you give another dime or not, they get to always count you as a member. A membership that must conscious be renewed periodically gives you the ultimate voice of taking your wallet and membership somewhere else were if they no longer represent your belief due to changes you or they make. So I support other pro-2A groups financially but I personally will never be a life member of any of them. I am not going to give up my ability to walk away again.
     
  19. crestoncowboy

    crestoncowboy Member

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    I was going to point out the same. But knew the backlash you would get. And it's highly unlikely anyone changes their mind.

    We didn't find out from Cooper. We found out from other LONG TIME, HIGH RANKING NRA OFFICIALS who thought the body of members should know and demand action. They are just as rich and just as high Browed as Wayne. But they thought the spending was excess. They are also "lawyers in suits" and not fudds. Nobody is saying to put the Nuge in charge. We need leadership who can get the message out there..... not get the message kicked off every social media platform and TV channel. I get that too. I agree we need lawyers in suits.

    Believe it or not sometimes they (CNN, NBC, ETC) say something that is accidentally true. Even if they didn't mean to or recant later. Same for FOX.... contrary to popular belief they also spin some things and flat out lie. Do your own research and figure out any story that matters to you. If they tell you it's raining (FOX or CNN)( or especially the weather Channel) go outside and see before you put on your rain suit. If they show a video that starts or ends abruptly, it's likely to skew the context. Never pay attention to quotes unless you have the whole transcript. One could make "the Gettysburg address" and the "dream speech" say some pretty funky things if they just pick and choose things out of context like BOTH sides of the media do now. It's truly pathetic that we have to say "both sides of the media" That's just where we are now.

    His buddies and folks who were around him outed him THEN the mainstream media picked it up. It did NOT get dreamed up by someone like many of the media stories did. I never seen a story on CNN or any others because I do not watch them. I read WLPs own piece in the NRA magazines and researched it from there.

    I still contribute. I'm a member. Doesn't mean I like what I've read.
     
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  20. Robert

    Robert Administrator Staff Member

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    If I want to continue to be a member of my range I have to be a member of the NRA as theirs insurance covers the range. I have no choice if I want to go to the range.
     
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  21. mcb

    mcb Member

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    That would be a hard place to be. I personally would go the the leadership of the club and ask/suggest that in light of the current situation that they would allow membership in other leadership approved pro-2A groups to be used in place of an NRA membership. Barring that I personally would also start looking for an alternate place to shoot. But you may not feel as strongly or not have any other options. Like I said that would be a hard place to be and I am thankfully not in that position. Good Luck!
     
  22. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    I used to loyally maintain 4 annual NRA memberships, one for myself and three others for my family. I’d fund them a couple times a year, once on my membership anniversary and another when Cabelas had their annual membership drive.

    all but mine are lapsed. I am now an annual member of NRA until it lapses next year. I’ll not renew until WLP goes.

    I joined GOA and SAF on an annual basis. They are not as large, but they are growing. I’ll gladly go back to the NRA when I see evidence it’s making progress.

    I do believe they are under attack from many sides, but the stuff I heard from the members inside the organization is what bothers me the most.
     
  23. Buzznrose

    Buzznrose Member

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    I don’t personally see having an NRA membership to belong to a shooting range to be an issue. And leaving a great range just to spite an organization hurts that local range way more than it hurts the NRA...they are likely using the NRA membership as a way to reduce costs.

    I support anyone’s right to join the NRA. I simply decided to spend my money elsewhere for now. But this current anti-gun environment is making me consider holding my nose and rejoining...just because...

    Just my opinion...which may be mine alone.
     
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  24. hps1

    hps1 Member

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    Ollie stepped down from NRA two years ago because of the internal problems he had become aware of at that time. The facts are:

    April 27, 2019 10:09 AM
    Updated 2 years ago

    Oliver North steps down as NRA president amid dispute over 'damaging' information


    By Lucas Jackson

    4 Min Read

    INDIANAPOLIS (Reuters) - Retired U.S. Marine Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North will step down as president of the National Rifle Association, North said on Saturday, adding he was being forced out due to his allegations that NRA leaders engaged in financial improprieties.

    In a letter read to the organization’s annual meeting in Indianapolis by an NRA board member, North, a conservative commentator best known for his central role in the 1980s Iran-Contra affair, said he had hoped to run for re-election when his term ends on Monday.

    “I am now informed that will not happen,” North said in the letter.

    His departure came after NRA Chief Executive Wayne LaPierre accused North of trying to oust him by threatening to release “damaging” information about him, according to a letter from LaPierre to NRA board members that was published by the Wall Street Journal on Friday.

    NRA officials did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

    The New York Times reported on Saturday that the New York attorney general, Letitia James, opened an investigation into the group’s tax-exempt status, sending letters on Friday to the NRA and affiliated entities, including its charitable foundation, telling them to preserve relevant financial records.

    Read rest of story here:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-guns-nra-idUSKCN1S30EQ

    AMEN!


    No organization, especially one as large as NRA, can please all of their members, all of the time.

    There is a lot of smoke around WLP and, guilty or not, the sooner we get this chapter behind us the better off we shall all be. A major change in the BOD, would also clear the air. Term limits seem like a good idea to help prevent recurrence of this bad situation.

    Just my humble opinion, but FWIW, it is far more productive to try to reform the organization from within, than to sit on the sidelines and fan the flames.

    One of the most common reasons I heard as to "why I don't belong to NRA" for years as a recruiter was all of the fund raising calls and letters. If you call membership @ (800)672-3888 and ask to be removed from fundraising list, the will honor your request.

    Regards,
    hps
     
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  25. Seamaster31

    Seamaster31 Member

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    There will always be people that bash organizations like the NRA. It has become very fashionable to pretend to know the inside workings of organizations or corporations and educate the masses with their personal opinions. The NRA has worked for gun owners for many years and certain groups (political and social) will rejoice if it is weakened.

    One of the levels of Life membership is a good way to support our rights in the coming years.
     
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