NY Bill Sets Up Ammo DB - Requires Manufacturers To Register & Report

[dc dalton]

Proposed New York bill A08108 sets up ammunition tracking database, requires manufacturers to register and report to the state.

From the bill:

THE MANUFACTURER REGISTRY. (I) EVERY MANUFACTURER SHALL REGISTER WITH THE NEW YORK STATE POLICE IN A MANNER PRESCRIBED BY THE NEW YORK STATE POLICE, AND SHALL MAINTAIN RECORDS ON THE BUSINESS PREMISES FOR A PERIOD OF SEVEN YEARS CONCERNING ALL SALES, LOANS, AND TRANSFERS OF AMMUNITION TO, FROM, OR WITHIN THE STATE.

EVERY MANUFACTURER SHALL CODE ANY AMMUNITION FOR HANDGUNS AND ASSAULT WEAPONS SOLD OR MANUFACTURED AFTER JANUARY FIRST, TWO THOUSAND FOURTEEN.

http://amgoa.org/Proposed-New-York-Gun-Law-A08108/State-Law/9649

 

[Art Eatman]

"I know that this won't reduce violent crimes with firearms, but WE MUST DO SOMETHING!"

"Ignorance is no excuse for a law." -- Tamara Keel.

 

[Speedo66]

Does this include home hand loaders?

 

[wildbilll]

OK, I'll bite. Isn't just about all ammo sold able to be used in something that is either a handgun or some long gun that can be classified as an "assault weapon"?
And what is "coded" mean? Is that microstamping?

 

[Speedo66]

Yup, since there are those manufacturers that make the rifle caliber single shot pistol barrels, just about any rifle cartridge could be classified as a pistol cartridge.

 

[MErl]

very bad bill bill text
"coded"

1 (II) EVERY MANUFACTURER SHALL CODE ANY AMMUNITION FOR HANDGUNS AND
2 ASSAULT WEAPONS SOLD OR MANUFACTURED AFTER JANUARY FIRST, TWO THOUSAND
3 FOURTEEN.
4 B. THE VENDOR REGISTRY. EVERY VENDOR OF AMMUNITION SHALL REGISTER WITH
5 THE NEW YORK STATE POLICE IN A MANNER PRESCRIBED BY THE NEW YORK STATE
6 POLICE, AND SHALL RECORD THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IN A FORMAT
7 PRESCRIBED BY THE NEW YORK STATE POLICE:
8 (I) THE DATE OF THE TRANSACTION;
9 (II) THE NAME OF THE TRANSFEREE;
10 (III) THE PURCHASER'S DRIVER'S LICENSE NUMBER OR OTHER GOVERNMENT
11 ISSUED IDENTIFICATION CARD NUMBER;
12 (IV) THE DATE OF BIRTH OF THE PURCHASER;
13 (V) THE UNIQUE IDENTIFIER OF ALL HANDGUN AMMUNITION OR BULLETS TRANS-
14 FERRED;

50 8. FOR PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, "CODED AMMUNITION" MEANS A BULLET
51 CARRYING A UNIQUE IDENTIFIER THAT HAS BEEN APPLIED BY ETCHING ONTO THE
52 BASE OF THE BULLET PROJECTILE.

oo, a bullet tax:

28 4. THE COST OF MAINTAINING THE DATABASE SHALL BE FUNDED BY THE AMMUNI-
29 TION CODING SYSTEM DATABASE FUND ESTABLISHED PURSUANT TO SECTION NINE-
30 TY-ONE-G OF THE STATE FINANCE LAW. VENDORS SHALL CHARGE AN ADDITIONAL
31 $.005 PER BULLET OR ROUND OF AMMUNITION TO THE PURCHASER. SUCH MONEYS
32 SHALL BE DEPOSITED INTO THE FUND.

applies to ALL Existing Ammunition:

1 A PERSON IS GUILTY OF UNLAWFUL SALE OR POSSESSION OF UNCODED AMMUNI-
2 TION WHEN HE OR SHE:
3 1. SELLS ANY AMMUNITION THAT HAS NOT BEEN CODED PURSUANT TO SECTION
4 THREE HUNDRED NINETY-SIX-GG OF THE GENERAL BUSINESS LAW; OR
5 2. POSSESSES ANY AMMUNITION THAT IS UNCODED, OR THE CODE OF WHICH HAS
6 BEEN RENDERED UNREADABLE, EXCEPT IF SUCH POSSESSION IS WITHIN THREE
7 YEARS FROM THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS SECTION AND THE PERSON HAS A VALID
8 HUNTING LICENSE; OR
9 3. POSSESSES ONE HUNDRED ROUNDS OR MORE OF AMMUNITION THAT IS UNCODED,
10 OR THE CODE OF WHICH HAS BEEN RENDERED UNREADABLE, DOES NOT HAVE A VALID
11 HUNTING LICENSE, AND SUCH POSSESSION TAKES PLACE AT LEAST ONE YEAR AFTER
12 THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS SECTION.
13 UNLAWFUL SALE OR POSSESSION OF UNCODED AMMUNITION IS A CLASS A MISDE-
14 MEANOR.

Handloaders are probably not considered Manufacturers since there is mention of business premises but the possession rule would apply.

15 A. THE MANUFACTURER REGISTRY. (I) EVERY MANUFACTURER SHALL REGISTER
16 WITH THE NEW YORK STATE POLICE IN A MANNER PRESCRIBED BY THE NEW YORK
17 STATE POLICE, AND SHALL MAINTAIN RECORDS ON THE BUSINESS PREMISES FOR A
18 PERIOD OF SEVEN YEARS CONCERNING ALL SALES, LOANS, AND TRANSFERS OF
19 AMMUNITION TO, FROM, OR WITHIN THE STATE.

 

[backbencher]

So New Yorkers are to be disarmed by making the ammo so expensive they can't afford to shoot w/in the state. Of course, the NY taxpayers are going to have to pay high $ to keep their police in boolits, as well. There will be a single ammo manufacturer supplying the People's Republic of New York.

 

[Torian]

Is there support for this in the legislature? I wonder how many of the liberals who are in favor of such legislation cited the movie "Judge Dredd" as supporting evidence.

In the movie, firearms were DNA coded to whomever was holding the weapon, and each bullet had a identifier unique to the shooter.

 

[AirForceShooter]

Nyers will just drive over the state line.
Going on vacation will now include a budget to buy ammo and drive it back.

Remington was trying to stay.
Now???

AFS

 

[dc dalton]

So New Yorkers are to be disarmed by making the ammo so expensive they can't afford to shoot w/in the state. Of course, the NY taxpayers are going to have to pay high $ to keep their police in boolits, as well. There will be a single ammo manufacturer supplying the People's Republic of New York.

You have to remember, with this comes the micro stamping requirement for all guns. So it's not just ammo it's guns.

They could in fact piss off manufacturers to the point no one will ship ammo OR guns to NY, effectively banning new gun sales without actually banning them.

 

[jlucke69]

Soon it will be more profitable for thieves to steal ammunition than guns.

 

[Speedo66]

From what I'm reading, in the future if you have 100 rounds of ammo over a year old, unstamped, and don't possess a hunting license, they've just made you a criminal. Hunters have 3 years before they're a criminal.

This is such BS!!

To even think up such a bill is a travesty.

 

[PavePusher]

Interesting.

1. Are there any ammo-manufacturers based in NY? If so, does this apply to ammo they sell/ship out-of state?

2. Ammo vendors in Vermont, southern NH, Penn. and north-east Ohio just won the lottory, unless this gets rejected. You've seen the fireworks tent-stores near states that 'ban' fireworks, yes....?

 

[Midwest]

I believe with the 1968 GCA there was a requirement to have a FFL to sell ammo. I think it was done away with FOPA 86 ? I think the FFL was a FFL 4 or FFL 5 license to sell ammo only. I believe anyone buying handgun ammo had to have their names written down in a register, this was federal law at at one time. From what I understand it was done away with as being too onerous and didn't solve one crime.

I can't find much information on how much the FFL 4 (or 5) license cost or what were the exact regulations at the time. Most sites seem to have the revised regulations of the the 1968 GCA and not the original text.

Maybe someone can add in the exact details or could point me to where I can find this information. My whole point is that if it was done away with because it didn't solve crime and created too much paperwork...maybe the politicians in NY need to know that it turned out to be a useless regulation ....(for what it is worth).

 

[MErl]

From what I'm reading, in the future if you have 100 rounds of ammo over a year old, unstamped, and don't possess a hunting license, they've just made you a criminal. Hunters have 3 years before they're a criminal.

worse than that actually.

after 2014 you may not have >100rnds of unmarked ammunition.
after 2017 you may not have any unmarked ammunition.
(unless you have a hunting license which seems an odd thing to totally nullify possession of any amount)

This one we sure don't want going anywhere. Talk about a horrible model for the rest of the country.

 

[heyjoe]

this bill was first introduced 12/31/69

 

[Twiki357]

Quote:
50 8. FOR PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, "CODED AMMUNITION" MEANS A BULLET
51 CARRYING A UNIQUE IDENTIFIER THAT HAS BEEN APPLIED BY ETCHING ONTO THE
52 BASE OF THE BULLET PROJECTILE.

Now exactly how are they going to determine that the ammunition is "Coded" if it is on the base of the projectile?
If the "Code" is also on the box, what's to prevent a person from refilling an old box with uncoded ammo if the code is on the bullet base inside the case?

 

[Old Shooter]

I can see the NY State Police going around with an inertia bullet puller to pull the bullets from your pistol to see if the base of the projectile is coded.....

They do have random traffic check points, mayby this would be included.

How is an individual to know if his ammo is, in fact, coded?

Who was the genius in New York that introduced this bill?

 

[dragon813gt]

I realize this will hurt the residents of NY. But this is where the manufacturers have to stop selling to NY. They have 49 other states and the rest of the world to sell to. So why bother with all the hassles in one market. NY has realized they can effectively ban firearms by making it cost prohibitive. I know it's a battle which is ongoing. And it seems the residents are losing ground every day. This is something that can only be stopped by the residents of NY.


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[Torian]

I realize this will hurt the residents of NY. But this is where the manufacturers have to stop selling to NY. They have 49 other states and the rest of the world to sell to. So why bother with all the hassles in one market. NY has realized they can effectively ban firearms by making it cost prohibitive. I know it's a battle which is ongoing. And it seems the residents are losing ground every day. This is something that can only be stopped by the residents of NY.


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As a last resort...possibly. However, the residents of NY need help. Giving up on an entire state in terms of firearms and ammo is losing a big piece of this war.

If we give up this state, they will just move along to another one. There can be no compromising with this type of legislation that is just designed to harass lawful gun owners.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I believe with the 1968 GCA there was a requirement to have a FFL to sell ammo. I think it was done away with FOPA 86 ? I think the FFL was a FFL 4 or FFL 5 license to sell ammo only. I believe anyone buying handgun ammo had to have their names written down in a register, this was federal law at at one time. From what I understand it was done away with as being too onerous and didn't solve one crime.

I can't find much information on how much the FFL 4 (or 5) license cost or what were the exact regulations at the time. Most sites seem to have the revised regulations of the the 1968 GCA and not the original text.

Maybe someone can add in the exact details or could point me to where I can find this information. My whole point is that if it was done away with because it didn't solve crime and created too much paperwork...maybe the politicians in NY need to know that it turned out to be a useless regulation ....(for what it is worth).

Actually, the politicians in NY need to know that their CONSTITUENTS believe this to be a useless regulation...and said constituents need to voice this loudly and proudly when they VOTE.

If that doesn't happen, then there will be no countering of this bill until someone successfully challenges it in the courts sometime years down the road...IF it's ever challenged at all.

 

[Deanimator]

Manufacturers should just stop shipping to New York.

Let the NYPD carry clubs. Everybody will be safer in the end.

 

[Ryanxia]

If something like this passes which is as clear a violation of your Second Amendment Rights as can be, and just about all out bans shooting, it's pretty obvious what choice NY folks have to make. When the system fails to protect your Rights, you'll either take it or you won't, that simple. It's why we have the 2A to begin with.

In any case, good luck.

 

[dragon813gt]

As a last resort...possibly. However, the residents of NY need help. Giving up on an entire state in terms of firearms and ammo is losing a big piece of this war.

If we give up this state, they will just move along to another one. There can be no compromising with this type of legislation that is just designed to harass lawful gun owners.

The only people that can help are the residents. Yes people outside of the state can contribute money to any organization/person on the pro side. But at the end of the day it's the residents who pull the levers at the voting booth. I can not vote to help them out. It doesn't help that NYC and the surrounding area runs the entire state. Because upstate NY is very conservative. I wish there was more that I could do as I'm not that far away from NY. I have a feeling that if manufacturers stopped shipping there they still wouldn't get it. But law enforcement would start crying at some point.




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[RetiredUSNChief]

If something like this passes which is as clear a violation of your Second Amendment Rights as can be, and just about all out bans shooting, it's pretty obvious what choice NY folks have to make. When the system fails to protect your Rights, you'll either take it or you won't, that simple. It's why we have the 2A to begin with.

In any case, good luck.

It's pretty obvious to people like US what choice NY folks SHOULD make. However, like it or not, this is a choice THEY have to make. And to make it, THEY have to get off their keisters and do something politically in order to acheive that goal, just like dragon813gt said. Those of us who are not NY residents have little political say in the matter, and rightfully so.

(NOTE: We do have some political say...but not as much as NY residents do.)

History is replete with plenty of examples of peoples who, through one means or another, acquiesced to being disarmed. If New Yorkers collectively decide this is what they want, then this is what they will get. And this collective decision doesn't just include "those in power". It includes people who don't care enough about the subject to get involved, people who are too lazy to organize effective political rebuttals, people in cities vs people in rural settings, and more.

For what it's worth, I agree that this is a violation of our Second Amendment RKBA. HOWEVER, enough residents must agree with this point of view to shoot it down before it becomes law. And should it become law, enough people must care enough to successfully challenge the law in the federal courts through an appropriate case.