Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

NY) Parents claim courts were responsible for robber's death 09-22-03

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by WAGCEVP, Sep 23, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. WAGCEVP

    WAGCEVP Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    864
    NY) Parents claim courts were responsible for robber's death 09-22-03
    Date: Sep 23, 2003 2:40 AM
    Address:http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20030922/1016717.asp
    Courts criticized in death of robber
    By VANESSA THOMAS
    News Staff Reporter
    9/22/2003

    The parents of an 18-year-old who was gunned down while trying to rob a
    Northland Avenue convenience store earlier this week say their son might
    still be alive if the court system had not failed.

    Last Monday, Jason A. Cramer entered a store at 882 Northland Ave. with
    a pistol, demanded cash and fired two shots into the wall, police say.
    The clerk, who was not hit, hastily grabbed a handful of money from the
    cash register and placed it on the counter. Seconds later, the store
    owner came from the back room and shot Cramer in the head, killing him
    almost instantly.
    The event has sparked mixed reaction.

    Some gun advocates are praising the store owner - a 67-year-old
    Vietnamese man - for using his registered gun to defend the family-owned
    store.

    Others are questioning the court system and asking why Cramer was
    repeatedly given light penalties for committing violent felonies.

    A month ago, Cramer had been arrested for the gunpoint robbery of a
    Fillmore Avenue grocery store, but he was released from jail on a legal
    technicality when prosecutors failed to hold a hearing within the
    required time.

    "Something went terribly wrong," said his father, Jeffrey Miller, who
    lives in Boston. "How the hell did he keep on getting out of jail?"

    His mother, Vindella Cramer, believes the courts were way too lenient on
    her eldest child.

    "Not that I wanted him to stay in jail forever, but I didn't feel
    releasing him was the best thing for him," said Cramer, who raised her
    son on Gibson Street.

    Officials at the Erie County District Attorney's office said Cramer was
    released from jail in the August robbery because the victim - their
    principal witness - failed to appear at a felony hearing.

    Last month, Cramer was arrested for robbing the New York Grocery at 1372
    Fillmore Ave.

    According to police reports, Cramer was wearing a black ski mask and
    gray, hooded sweat shirt when he entered the store on Aug. 10, pointed a
    handgun at two employees and fled with $202.

    Cramer was charged with six felonies - two counts of robbery, two counts
    of criminal possession of stolen property and two counts of criminal
    possession of a weapon; he also was charged with three misdemeanors -
    resisting arrest, reckless endangerment and obstructing governmental
    administration.

    On Aug. 11, City Court Judge David Manz held Cramer on $100,000 cash
    bond or $200,000 property bond at his arraignment.

    But when he appeared at a felony hearing on Aug. 15, he was released on
    his own recognizance under a provision of the state law because
    prosecutors failed to conduct the court proceedings in a timely manner.
    Under that provision, anyone charged with a felony must have a hearing
    within five days of arrest, but if that does not occur, the suspect must
    be released.

    Assistant District Attorney Paul S. Piotrowski, who is in charge of
    violent crimes by juveniles, said the hearing didn't happen because the
    robbery victim did not show up in court.

    Family members say they were shocked and disappointed when he walked out
    of court a free man. They had refused to post his bail and thought he
    might learn a lesson by sitting in a jail cell, possibly inspiring him
    to lead a more positive life.

    Cramer was arrested again on Aug. 26, 11 days after his release from
    jail, when officers found him with 20 bags of marijuana at Fillmore
    Avenue and Sydney Street.

    That time, Cramer was sentenced to 15 days in jail. Family members said
    he served 10 days and was let go.

    About 10 days later, Cramer was shot to death. Police did not release
    the identity of the store owner, and they say the shooting will likely
    be considered a justifiable homicide.

    Vindella Cramer, a single mother raising four other children on public
    assistance, said her son was a caring and gifted teen who bought potato
    chips for his siblings, worked a brief stint at Darien Lake operating
    amusement rides and graduated from School 11 with the second highest
    grade in his class.

    His funeral was held today in Love Alive Fellowship Full Gospel Baptist
    Church, 1787 Genesee St.
     
  2. dinosaur

    dinosaur Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,036
    Location:
    NE Pa
    Oh,.......Never mind.:banghead:
     
  3. greyhound

    greyhound Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2003
    Messages:
    1,665
    Location:
    Birmingham, AL
    Well, dinosaur, someone had to say it!:)

    The irony in that quote is just unbelievable.
     
  4. feedthehogs

    feedthehogs Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2003
    Messages:
    1,801
    Nothing went wrong.

    He's out of the system forever before he killed someone.
     
  5. Futo Inu

    Futo Inu member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    731
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    They're right - he should not have been let out.
    It's not actionable though.
    Prolly good riddance in any event, IMO.

    (you see that - now I'm starting to write Sam-haiku-style :) )
     
  6. jsalcedo

    jsalcedo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    3,683
    Yeah, the alternative school detention class for troubled kids with violent
    tendencies.
     
  7. C.R.Sam

    C.R.Sam Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,632
    Location:
    Chino Valley, AZ., USA
    Fault.....Parents raised a hoodlum.
    Fault.....System coddled hoodlum.
    Good.....Hoodlum gone.
    Worms..Getting fatter.

    Sam
     
  8. Futo Inu

    Futo Inu member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    731
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Sam

    lol

    obviously, it'll be some time before my haikus are up to snuff. :)
     
  9. capt_happypants

    capt_happypants Member In Memoriam

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Messages:
    304
    Technically, the courts didn't kill him, it was the big, gaping hole between the eyes that resulted in Jason Cramer's departure from this mortal coil.
     
  10. Grey54956

    Grey54956 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2003
    Messages:
    632
    Location:
    IN
    A haiku contest? Hmmmm... very gruesome subject, but hey, what the heck.

    Hmmmm. I'll try my best:

    Give me your money,
    And some potato chips, too.
    Bang! Food for the worms.

    If I remember correctly, Haikus should have a 5-7-5 syllable format. Can anybody confirm this?
     
  11. Carlos Cabeza

    Carlos Cabeza Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,523
    Location:
    Okie City, OK.
    Not a haiku but,

    Live fast,
    Die young,
    and leave a handsome corpse.
     
  12. STW

    STW Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    391
    Location:
    MT
    Your fault says the mom
    Real issue parental control
    No, blame the system
     
  13. HankB

    HankB Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2003
    Messages:
    5,226
    Location:
    Central Texas
    Seems like a lot of things went wrong up until the end, when - thanks to a 67-year-old Vietnamese man - something went right.
     
  14. Keith

    Keith Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    1,784
    Location:
    Kodiak, Alaska
    Excellent shooting! A single shot in a moment of high stress and he tags this gollum right in the head!
    I would suspect that any Vietnamese man of that age has a military background.
    Just outstanding!

    Keith
     
  15. Jake

    Jake Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2003
    Messages:
    374
    Location:
    Central Florida
    " Family members say they were shocked and disappointed when he walked out court a free man. They had refused to post his bail and thought he might learn a lesson by sitting in a jail cell, possibly inspiring him
    to lead a more positive life. "


    So let me get this straight. Now it's OK to not only let the TV, schools and goverment raise your kids but we can depend on the prison system too? Oh joy of all joys!!!!
     
  16. BluesBear

    BluesBear member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2003
    Messages:
    7,672
    Location:
    The Great Pacific NorthWet
    only one word will be needed on the scumbag's tombstone..

    KISMET
     
  17. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    24,041
    Location:
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    Voted for Liar Gore.
     
  18. Kenneth Lew

    Kenneth Lew Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    534
    The court system did work! It scumbag get what he deserved (a bullet to the head) rather than have the tax payers pay $30,000+ a year for his incaration. :banghead:

    Hoo yahhh.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page