Quantcast

NYC gun collector arrested

Discussion in 'Legal' started by batjka, Mar 6, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Seenterman

    Seenterman Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    192
    Ok the dude is a moron. Im sorry not many other words to use when you BREAK THE LAW. If I saw off the barrel of my shotgun to be more "tactical" and then get arrested I doubt anyones going to defend me because the govs infrindging on my RKBA. You probably dont live in NYS, so I doubt you know its laws very well, Hell I live here and I've spend countless hours reading them just to cover my a$$.

    Its not defined differently its just when you have the ammuniton and power to make an antique firearm fire you have an operational pistol in NY eyes, and that needs to be registered on a permit.

    His muzzleloaders are fine if if he has no ammo for them, but the rimfires would have to be on his permit too. And yea, the SAA's and .38s are "illegal handguns" which carry a 5 year sentance.

    The couple that got me into shooting has over 40 handguns spread over something like 4 pistol permits, so I would assume if they kept going they could get like 80 on 8 permits, this is in Westchester County, but permits apply for handguns here, not rifles. And jezzus dont get me started on how many rifles they have. I defend both, nothings going to change if all gunner move out of NY.
     
  2. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Messages:
    12,465
    Location:
    Rocky River, Ohio
    Nothing's going to change, PERIOD.

    Nothing changed when Jews moved out of Germany. Think things were better for the ones who stayed, even before 1942?
     
  3. Duke of Doubt

    Duke of Doubt member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,863
    taprackbang: "Another reason I loathe such a craphole as New York."

    Hey, don't dishonor my private craphole by comparing it to a place like New York.
     
  4. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    5,288
    Two things led police to figure out he guns without permission:

    Private sales records on an internet gun site which became available to police.
    When a single customer that used a private gun websites is under investigation on a totaly unrelated situation they can physicaly copy or take a look at all electronic records for all other customers.
    If the website "fully cooperated with the investigation" meaning they did not stand up for the rights of other uninvolved customers' privacy, and do not have sales records compartmentalized then all records are available. (Even if they do try to stand up for them, if the LEO can easily aquire the records, they already have them by the time it would go to court to be challenged.)

    That means anyone who buys or sells online should be aware various agencies both state and federal likely have records of any and all online gun transactions.
    When Bubba from another state was being investigated they obtained your records and everyones' records at the same time.


    Second, this guy was known to likely have guns by the government of New York City because he tried to aquire a permit and comply with the law.
    His attempt to aquire permits showed he was likely into firearms, and red flagged him to authorities. Since he was not approved his guns did not become legal, but it did enter him into a database.
    So he self incriminated himself by attempting to comply with the law.

    That is not to say he should not have tried to comply with the law, merely that it helped bring about his downfall because he lives in such a bad place.
     
  5. Duke of Doubt

    Duke of Doubt member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,863
    Excellent point, Zoogster. Another reason I've never purchased a gun online. The records last forever.
     
  6. SpecialKalltheway

    SpecialKalltheway Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2009
    Messages:
    325
    Location:
    Colorado
    I rather move there and do my best to help those poor people out by pushing for gun owners rights. I never knew a man that was happy with every single law on the books or not on the books before, so I don't see why I can't live there and bitch too. At least NJ won't infringe on my 1st Amendment rights as well. Laws can be changed and complaining about them is the first step to doing so. People like to complain, so I just need them to join in with me.
     
  7. SpecialKalltheway

    SpecialKalltheway Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2009
    Messages:
    325
    Location:
    Colorado
    besides if I want to become a paid gun rights advocate, staying here in Colorado would be pretty silly.
    Me:"Everyone like all their guns?"
    Coloradans: "yeah!"
    Me: "ok good then"
    it's not a hard battle here.
     
  8. Seenterman

    Seenterman Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2008
    Messages:
    192
    ROTF I love the comparisons of New York to Nazi Germany. Bloomberg is going to blitzkrieg your guns!!
     
  9. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    5,288
    Which also means if someone currently lives in a free state and later moves to someplace like NYC they will very likely have records of previous purchases you made before you moved or were within thier jurisdiction.Records obtained while they were investigating one of thier own citizens.
    It is not difficult to just copy down entire electronic databases (like sales records) during an investigation, and with entire anti firearm units who make a career from such activity in places like NYC such information is valuable.

    They may not know which firearms you still own once you move there, but they will have suspicions once they realize you live in the state or city.
    Of course trying to obtain a permit, like a pistol permit, is sure to remind them.


    The "worst" gun the guy had was a pump action shotgun with a pistol grip! A pretty standard gun.
    There is no indications he broke any laws other than not having a permit.
    Permits he was denied.
    Imagine moving to NYC for a new job, bringing only guns legal in the state with you, and then trying to obtain a permit.
    By not having the permit you are in violation of the law, but they will not issue you a permit, and by trying to get one you attracted thier attention.


    Yet a few posters here are just ready to pounce on him.
    "Well..he must be ...one of those...unlawful types! The kind not like us! Burn him at the legal stake!"
    I am always disappointed at the reaction by some to such stories.
     
  10. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Messages:
    12,465
    Location:
    Rocky River, Ohio
    The "Sullivan Law", et al are the Nuremberg Laws for gun owners and those who want to effectively defend themselves.

    I wouldn't live some place where I was BY LAW expected to be a passive victim of violent crime.

    There's simply NOTHING in New York, New Jersey, California or Illinois that I'd trade either my life or one iota of my freedom to have. My relatives have already tried to get me to move back to Apartheid Chicago. I tuned them down FLAT.
     
  11. Duke of Doubt

    Duke of Doubt member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,863
    You and I ought to form a duet, Deanimator. I've had family try for years to lure me back to Chi.

    NFW.
     
  12. esquare

    esquare Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Messages:
    305
    I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet, but this could wind up being a decent case to test state incorporation of the 2nd amendment now that heller is here. The fact that he tried twice to get a permit is going to be interesting.
     
  13. batjka

    batjka Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    289
  14. batjka

    batjka Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    289
    I sure hope he will sue the City under Heller. Should be a great case.
     
  15. bumm

    bumm Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    546
    Location:
    small town Iowa
    I sure hope he will sue the City under Heller. Should be a great case.

    That would be nice, but it takes MONEY...
    Marty
     
  16. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Messages:
    12,465
    Location:
    Rocky River, Ohio
    I go back once a year, to see my elderly mother. When she dies, my trips to Chicago end, forever. Can't stand the city. Can't stand the people. It's the next best thing to Somalia.
     
  17. kendradad

    kendradad Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    83
    Why do I get the idea these guns won't be destroyed, but will end up in some cops personal collections, or sold and the money pocketed. Sorry, I don't trust cops that don't view gun holders as their ally instead of someone they have to fear. :fire:
     
  18. DAVIDSDIVAD

    DAVIDSDIVAD member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2007
    Messages:
    1,455
    Location:
    Coast of Texas

    I could be wrong, but I think the lawyer in Heller did it pro bono.
     
  19. mordechaianiliewicz

    mordechaianiliewicz Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,719
    Location:
    Western Missouri
    Okay, few things here.

    One: He has every right to own those guns. That right is described in the 2A.

    Maybe I'm being a little preachy here, but a City team of people committed to violating civil rights violated his civil rights. They may put him in prison, they might do all kinds of things to this man, but he did nothing wrong. It's the city of NY which is in the wrong. I personally refuse to concede that. Unconstitutional laws are not laws at all. Laws that violate people's freedoms have no more legitimacy than an armed robber demanding your wallet or purse. You might give the item to the robber, but not because it's his right, but because he used force.

    NYC committed a violation of this man's rights for which the city down to the individual officers involved in this travesty ought to serve jail time for, and have to fully recompense this man.

    But, all of that isn't practical.

    The second thing, Do you give up the wallet, or fight? By living in a place that he knew was determined to rob him of his rights, he is a man of immense principle, but that sometimes, discretion is the better part of valor.

    I determined long ago that I would never live in a state which violated my civil rights so blatently. Am I handing over my wallet? Yes. But, hopefully, I can get it's contents back. I can't do that if I'm dead.

    Now, this man has a chance to get back civil rights for everyone in NYC. If this case goes to the Supreme Court, and even a ruling requiring license for non-felons comes off the bench, it's a huge coup.

    One final note: Firearms Suppression Teams? In my mind I thought of Religion Suppression Team, or Free Speech Suppression Team, or Privacy Suppression Team. I've known for a while that several big cities have been engaged in this activity but.... when I first read this article I had to calm down a little. We truly have fallen down.

    We won't be back to right until the people that set such programs up, and those evil men who carry these orders out are in jail where they belong.
     
  20. tpaw

    tpaw Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2007
    Messages:
    787
    Many moved to escape, hunger, imprisonment in camps, joblessness, no rights and squaller. It was necessary for survival.
     
  21. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Messages:
    12,465
    Location:
    Rocky River, Ohio
    Precisely. By leaving New York City or Chicago you are escaping enforced victimization, both by private sector criminals and by the governmental agencies which wish to FORCE you to be a submissive victim of those aforementioned private sector criminals. NYC and Chicago abjure any responsibility to protect you and actively work to prevent you from protecting yourself. In either place, you're a "dhimmi" in a secular society.
     
  22. deano186

    deano186 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2009
    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    arizona
    >>> In the beginning laws have a noble purpose like that.

    There was never any noble purpose behind U.S. gun control laws. They began as way to keep newly freed blacks from trying to defend themselves or exercise their rights after the civil war. In the beginning they were local laws, locally and selectively enforced. Eventually they moved up the ladder as a means of controlling everyone.
     
  23. Deltaboy1984

    Deltaboy1984 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2008
    Messages:
    7,033
    Location:
    Johnson County Texas
    What a mess nothing like the Communist state of NY.
     
  24. AKElroy

    AKElroy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    3,425
    Location:
    Past & Future Republic of Texas
    Agreed. In addition, though--Customer service extends to making sure patrons are fully informed regarding blatant legal jeopardy they may be exposing themselves to. Like it or not, they are selling a highly regulated item, and they would have been doing a service to ask a 77+ transaction customer a few questions relative to the state & city he was having them send guns to. This sounds like a good guy buying curios, and they should have cared that he was opening himself up to this.
     
  25. SCKimberFan

    SCKimberFan Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2008
    Messages:
    1,229
    Location:
    South of the Mason-Dixon Line
    PA is friendlier to guns. Why not live in PA and commute?

    I've said it before, I'll say it again: It ain't about GUN control, it's about PEOPLE control.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice