Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Nylon bullets. Practical?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Balog, Feb 13, 2004.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Balog

    Balog Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,955
    Location:
    Directly below date registered
    So I've been re-reading Unintended Consequences and I keep thinking that the nylon bullets Mr. Ross describes would be a perfect match for my situation. You see, I live in an apartment :barf: and I have to be very concerned with overpenetration. I currently use a shottie loaded with birdshot (at any range inside the apt it won't spread), but I'm looking to get a pistol to use as well.

    I'm going to get a .44 as soon as I can afford it, and then get into reloading for it. I know in the book it specified that a fairly hot load had to be used to get a good result, but I'd been thinking about a lower recoil and muzzle blast/flash load. More of a .44 Special than a magnum. Would that rob me of the velocity that gives these loads their lethality?

    Also, since I don't have a lathe, would it be a problem to get the components? I've never seen a source, but I've never really looked either.

    I had been considering using heavy soft cast wadcutters at low velocity. I thought this would give me enough penetration to get through a BG without going too far, as well as the lower recoil (faster follow up shots) and lesser flash/blast (less likely to blind me or ring my own bell in the enclosed space) that I was wanting.

    So what say you THRers? It's gonna be a while before I can do this (darn lack of money), but I like to plan in advance! Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
     
  2. cordex

    cordex Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,714
    Location:
    Indiana
    Well, I don't know about nylon barstock, but I do know a guy who cast some resin bullets in .451. I've got a baggie on my reloading bench that I've been meaning to trim and load up.

    I might be able to convince him to cast something in .429 if you were interested in paying for materials.
     
  3. critter

    critter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,167
    Location:
    southeast AR
    I have an old Speer reloading book that has loads for soft round ball loads in the .44. Could work up a load for multiple balls that ought to be good for inside an apt.

    I did make some loads with multiple balls for a .357. Speer shot capsules will hold three #1 buckshot stacked. Makes a nice 'trifecta' group at inside the house ranges. I also stacked two #000 buckshot (without the capsule) in the .357. Makes a good 'two-fer'. (I do not remember the weight of the triplex load but each #000 is 70 gr so two is 140 which is very near a normal payload for the caliber.)

    I would imagine either would make a good anti-personnel round without too much penetration into the neighbor's abode.

    USE EXTREME CAUTION AS THESE ARE NONSTANDARD AMMO LOADS AND YOU PROCEED INTO THE DARK SIDE AT YOUR OWN RISK!
     
  4. Balog

    Balog Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,955
    Location:
    Directly below date registered
    cordex: Isn't resin a hard, fragile substance? I wouldn't have thought it would hold up to firing. Or am I thinking of a different material?
     
  5. swifter

    swifter Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    395
    Location:
    Southern CA mountains
    the best way to avoid "overpenetration" is to shoot 'em in the thick part!:what: :D

    Tom
     
  6. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    22,348
    I would not depend on a novel for firearms selection.

    The old Thunder Zap plastic bullet was a resounding flop as were several other designs of trick bullet.

    There are Glaser and Magsafe that might reduce the danger of wall penetration if you plan to miss a lot.

    I dunno about the RBCDQ or Nuttrillium gimmicks. Do you want to beta test them or your own notions?

    The FIRST consideration has got to be stopping the assailant.
     
  7. cordex

    cordex Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,714
    Location:
    Indiana
    'Tis rather brittle, but it apparently shot well enough for the guy who made them. I'll load up a few and give them a shot (as it were) when I get the chance.

    Note: I'm not suggesting these for defensive uses, just something to toy around with.
     
  8. g56

    g56 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2004
    Messages:
    716
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    I used to be a Deputy Sheriff and we looked at personal defense and the over penetration problem in depth. Any lead bullet will over penetrate unless it is fired at such low velocity it wouldn't work for defense, we studied the problem and our recommendation was a 12 ga riot gun loaded with #4 Duck & Pheasant shells, that's not buckshot, it's Duck, bird shot. At close range #4 Duck & Pheasant shells are incredibly effective, but they don't penetrate walls very well, in our testing we found they will use most of their energy destroying the first layer of sheetrock, very little will penetrate a second layer and none will penetrate a second interior wall.

    Based on our testing we found that load to be very effective and have the least chance of injuring someone in an adjoining room, any rifle or pistol bullet will penetrate several interior walls, and can easily kill someone in an adjoining room. Buckshot will over penetrate and we didn't recommend it for indoor self protection.
     
  9. Balog

    Balog Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,955
    Location:
    Directly below date registered
    Jim Watson: I wouldn't normally either, but Mr. Ross knows what he's talking about. In fact, he posts on this board.
    If I ever have to shoot in my apartment, I'll be breaking one of the four rules since I don't have a backstop and I don't know what's behind the target. Would you shoot at a range with only a human sized backstop and a house right behind it? After all, it's only dangerous if you miss. :rolleyes:
     
  10. Surely

    Surely Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2004
    Messages:
    79
    shotgun

    If you already have a shotgun you already have the best close range self defence weapon made. You could experiment with some less penetrating shotgun loads, you can stick just about anything in a shotgun shell. Try split peas, rice, glass beads, rock salt or whatever. Some of these harder substances can wear a barrel tho. They all will hurt like hell at close range and could even be lethal, Sure to scare the hell out of any perp and you can leave a few rounds loaded with lead behind them just in case the dude is strung out.
     
  11. Balog

    Balog Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,955
    Location:
    Directly below date registered
    My only problem with my shottie is length. It's a pretty small apt with a lot of tight angles. I'd like something a bit easier to maneuver.
     
  12. Surely

    Surely Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2004
    Messages:
    79
    Sounds like you need a hacksaw. Drop 10 inches off your barrel and it will be alot better, haha
     
  13. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    24,041
    Location:
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    There's nothing wrong with .44 special loads. I'd stake my life on a .44 special wadcutter target (light) load a lot sooner than just about any nine millimeter load. My pre-agreement Smith & Wesson is uncannily accurate with very light .44 special loads, mid-range loads, and full house .44 magnum loads, all of which are good for home defense.

    All that saidâ„¢, the shotgun with g56's recommended load probably makes the best sense.
     
  14. Highland Ranger

    Highland Ranger Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Messages:
    2,299
    Location:
    New Jersey Highlands
    Nylon begins to get soft (melt) under 500 degrees, need to go get a materials book to be sure but that's my recollection.

    I'm thinking that the charge in the cartridge would flash up higher than that so even if the bullet wasn't near the charge long enough to melt, I gotta think there'd be some goo involved in the barrel i.e. not practical?
     
  15. Mikke

    Mikke Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Sweden
    I didn't notice any "nyloning" from the nylon .357's I shot (only 10 in total).

    Dunno if they would be useful, but it's kind of nifty shooting a revolver doing 1000+ m/s (3300 fps). :D
     
  16. John Ross

    John Ross Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2003
    Messages:
    503
    Location:
    St. Louis
    "The old Thunder Zap plastic bullet was a resounding flop as were several other designs of trick bullet."

    A commercial flop, yes. They didn't sell, for whatever reason. My belief is that lack of marketing was a big factor. Anyone who ever shot anything with them had no doubt about their effectiveness.

    "There are Glaser and Magsafe that might reduce the danger of wall penetration if you plan to miss a lot. "

    Agree completely.

    Think about whether you really want to use handloads for defense. I do it, but there are arguments against it. I wrote an article discussing this issue:

    http://www.john-ross.net/hldefense.htm

    JR
     
  17. Balog

    Balog Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,955
    Location:
    Directly below date registered
    Hello Mr. Ross, it's great to see you. A very thought-provoking article. However, since I intend to use my pistol (for the time being) solely for home-defense, I don't expect to encounter any legal problems. Anyone in my small apt is almost certainly within 21 feet.

    Do any of the reloading manuals give information on using nylon bullets? Do any reloading supply houses sell them?
     
  18. John Ross

    John Ross Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2003
    Messages:
    503
    Location:
    St. Louis
    No to both questions.

    IMO in a quality gun you cannot overload a nylon bullet. T-Zap was a 20-ish grain slug with a case full of Bullseye that went 2700 out of a 2" Chiefs Special. My 44s were a 37 grain projo that went 3600 out of a 5" 29. Cases fell out of the gun.

    Go to a friendly machine shop with a Swissomatic and have them run you some.

    JR
     
  19. Balog

    Balog Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,955
    Location:
    Directly below date registered
    Do you prefer a full-wadcutter shape, or shall I have them shaped?
     
  20. John Ross

    John Ross Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2003
    Messages:
    503
    Location:
    St. Louis
    It doesn't really matter. Mine were Keith shaped, FWIW.

    JR
     
  21. Owen

    Owen Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    5,928
    Location:
    Georgetown, TX
    If you are going to be using speed loaders, putting a round nose on them, or at least a bevel will make life easier.
     
  22. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    Messages:
    7,850
    Location:
    Ava, Missouri
    Fragmentable bullets for apartments. Do damage to perp but will stop in a average wall....
     
  23. Gung-Ho

    Gung-Ho member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    185
    Location:
    Undisclosed. Somewhere West Of The Rockies
    Mr Ross...what kind of crimp did you use. And did anyone ever ask if they were legal to make?
     
  24. jlseagull

    jlseagull Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    Phx, AZ
    How about a Serbu Super Shorty? it's an AOW, so there's only a $5 transfer tax, not a $200.
     
  25. BluesBear

    BluesBear member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2003
    Messages:
    7,672
    Location:
    The Great Pacific NorthWet
    Why would you think there mught be a question of legality?
    After all it wouldn't exactly be armor piercing.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page