Discussion in 'Legal' started by Remington788, Oct 22, 2006.
Re the senators "admission" on Meet The Press this A.M., is anyone surprised?
That fits most politicians these days. Most of em are bought and sold like pigs going to market.
Obama is a great "New America," "diversity rules" candidate. He will appeal to young people who have been brainwashed, guilty liberals, and everyone who puts appearance before substance.
We keep thinking an Obama can't be elected. Wrong. He can and will be (if not this Obama another Obama down the road). Our job is to find a way to save the essence of America before it gets swamped by what the last forty years hath wrought.
Barak Obama can work a crowd like nobody I've ever seen. Even folks that don't agree with everything he says love him. He can connect with the "common man" even better than Slick Willie Clinton.
Watch him, and watch out!
I was in a packed room (gun owners filled the hearing room plus the rotunda walkway outside) for a committee vote in the Illinois legislature when Obama was on the committee. I'd never heard of him before, and he came off as a reasonable, educable man who simply didn't understand the issue--he actually stated at one point that there must be some compromise position whereby people couldn't shoot assault weapons, but gun collectors could keep their machine guns. It has since become clear that he's not interested in learning anything or hearing anything that might point up problems with banning guns. He's not interested in doing anything that might be controversial to the big-time Democrats out there--ever. But when I was in a room with him, he had me convinced.
His charisma and persuasion are formidable. The importance of his "one big speech" is that it proved to the Democrat power players that his charisma comes across on TV and in giant halls. That was only his demonstration that he's ready for prime time. The important groundwork was all laid long beforehand; otherwise he never would have been given the chance to speak at the DNC convention.
The fact that he's black and has an Islamic-sounding name is not going to matter much to most people, nor should it. Counting on something like that to save the day is going to lead to disappointment.
Obama is just like Ted Kennedy on guns. In fact he voted for his ban on '30-30 (all centerfire) ammunition.
I'll tell you why you're all going to have your a$$e$ handed to you on election day.
It's guys like me. Second Amendment-supporting, gun-owning guys like me.
I've owned and run a small business and that'll make you conservative more quickly than anything.
However, I cannot abide the complete contempt and lack of understanding of the Constitution shown by the President and his supporters. Bush can declare the Democratic nominee for President an enemy combatant and have him held without trial for life. I am not exaggerating one bit.
I'm sick to death of these page-lusting hypocrites passing discriminatory laws against my gay friends and family. At least my friends and family are honest about their sexuality, unlike the congressman and his coverers.
Keep your God out of my government.
As much as I will want to vomit with Polosi as Speaker of the House, I am morally compelled to end this madness and will vote these bums out without reservation.
So when you're licking your wounds November 7, 2006, now you'll know why.
your reply is all over the place. Exactly what is all of that supposed mean?
FYI, I own and run my own business (actually three if you count the farm) and I'm as solidly pro 2A and conservative as anybody you'll find in middle america.
and by the way, I have an openly lesbian adult daughter, but I cannot make sense of your post in the context of this thread.
Help me see what I must be missing.
you are willing to let extremist homophobes have guns while making sure
your gay and lesbian friends can not?
I think what he's saying is the Dems arent as bad as the Republicans. Everyone here is having fun teeing off on Obama and calling him a socialist and other names, when it's the Republicans who have been steadily chipping away at civil liberties for the last few years.
Come on now. I think America is passed that. The fact that Obama is black shouldn't be an issue to anyone. It makes me lose respect in ANY American, no matter how old, or how patriotic if they simply don't vote for someone based on their race.
With that said, I will not vote for Obama. I like some of the things he has said, he seems to be one of the most moderate Democrats out there beyond Lieberman. But the fact is that a Democrat as President will still have to submit to the will of Democrats in Congress, and as we all know Democrats overwhelmingly are morons.
I would vote for Obama if he was running on the Republican or independent ticket for sure if he was to actually adhere to what he has personally claimed his policies are. But Democrats are Democrats, they are a hivemind for the most part. Barrack Obama's policies would be shoved aside to further the liberal agenda. Thats why I won't vote for him.
If anyone uses the fact that he is black as a reason not to vote for him than those people shouldn't be vote wielders IMO.
chipping away what rights?
spying on terrorist ??
It's far more likely Billary would declare a repub an enemy combatant then vice/versa.
i don't agree with the republicans on many issues, and things are grim for gun owners if our so called moderate repbs like ghoulianni and mcclib get in power
but if the gov't goes as haywire as the leftymoon bats say it is, I would think they would want more guns not less
I woke up one morning and found out I was living in a foreign country. God is dead, Gay marriage was invented, everyone was stoned on drugs, guns were banned and I was working for the government. The family unit had been done away with and the Village had taken my children. But somehow my civil rights were intact. I found out I could go to a government library and check out governemt owned books and the government could not find out what book it owned I was reading. The librarians were happy. So my civil rights were intact. I went to the government physician and got placed in a government psychiatric ward cause they said I was non social and needed just a little drug treatment. Then the .gov decided I was just to dang old and not worth the time so I was euthanized for the common good. But my civil rights were intact. Yea Obama and those like him are what are needed so my civil rights will be intact. Does this sound nutty? I expect so. Just like the drivil from the left sounds nutty today about all the civil rights the evil Bush cabal, regime, PNAC and God are taking away from us. Get a grip on reality sometime before it is too late.
Reading threads like this make me seriously reconsider my membership in this forum.
Let's get real here.
They haven't been chipping away at any that impact me in the least. That's what matters to me, and I think that's what matters to most Americans.
The Democrats did over the last decade, and they want to some more. "Fairness Doctrine", gun bans, speech codes, racial quotas,"hate crimes", "hate speech" laws, smoking bans, erosion of property rights, higher taxes, laws governing exactly what I do with my children, dog bans, etc. These all impact me. Someone listening to overseas phone calls does not, and I expected that it was happening anyway.
And I drove the mosque where two of the 9/11 hijackers worshipped their false god, and guess what? It was business as usual. I didn't see any jack-booted thugs surrounding the place, and I never did. That's a pretty sharp contrast to Waco.
BTW, here's the NYT saying, essentially, "Well, the SWIFT program is legal, and it hasn't been abused. So now we think it's okay."
That is a load of crap. It's simply not true. The fact that you and others believe it just argues in favor of the axiom that, if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.
I'm with gunsmith and armedbear. Remember, the NSA ran the Eschelon program under Clinton, which was MUCH more intrusive, even than the Patriot Act, the only difference was, you didn't know about it at the time.
Using every electronic surveillance trick in the book to listen to your enemy when you are at war is just good strategy. (You're crazy if you think the enemy didn't take it for granted that we were doing it.) Passing comprehensive legislation to close the gaps in the current law is part of being at war. Doing these things AND BANNING GUNS TOO is something to worry about. Again, as long as they trust me to be armed, I will trust them to be my government.
You know what you get when you protest vote to hand control over to the Democrats? You get the Patriot Act AND the renewed, revised, Assualt Weapons Ban.
On the surface O'bama is an awesome candidate.
Good looking, good talking, great background.
But underneath a total lightweight.
Armedbear: the Patriot Act didn't impact your civil liberties?
Perhaps you could point out something to me that I might have noticed?
In California, I'm looking over my shoulder because I'm probably breaking some trivial law or other a lot of the time. I have done horrible things like having a beer in the park, or even playing fetch with my dog in an empty field. When we have the kid, I figure I'll probably be breaking a lot of laws regarding childrearing, like the state law that makes it a crime to leave your kid in the car when you step to the ATM to get a 20, or your dog in the car for a little bit longer. An acquaintance got a ticket for SMOKING IN HIS OWN ENCLOSED CAR. THAT stuff, I notice.
Last I checked, Miranda rights were still in force. I still have freedom of speech, at least "subject to community standards of decency" and other such disgusting twisting of the BoR, none of which have anything to do with USAPATRIOT.
My home is not safe from seizure by profiteers because of a vile SCOTUS ruling not USAPATRIOT, and this has happened to people around me in San Diego, recently. I am not allowed to buy a pistol magazine that holds more than 10 rounds, to defend my home. I am an instant felon if I put the wrong muzzle brake on my plinker. I know otherwise law-abiding schoolteachers whose lives could be wrecked if they're ever found with the pot they smoke.
So, in all seriousness, I DON'T feel particularly free here, because I'm not. But USAPATRIOT, whether I like it or not, has nothing to do with it.
How many people here have actually read the patriot act? If read how many decided on their own what it meant legally? Or did everyone who is saying MY civil liberities are being shreaded get their info from the ACLU, Daily Kos or MoveOn. org or the NYT editorial page? How many Democrats voted for the patriot act? Is everything these groups say always right? Do you think their is any bias? Do you think the ACLU really cares about anything but THEIR legal theories of civil liberities? Who made the ACLU the Lord of all that is legally correct? I call BS. They are just another special interest group with their own biasis and agenda. I just got through watching some left wing International Human Rights group panel on c-span. The guy recommends reinstating Saddam as President cause the war is illegal and his trial does not fit his great ideas of international human rights theory. In other word he was not tried at the very honorable ICC. Yea the one that that is nothing but a hot bed for lefty thought and has never seen a typrant they did not love. Except Bush. They think he is an international war criminal. I do not want these people to rule the country where I live. They are dangerous and ignorant and a enemy of all that is good.
"simply not true" eh?
The first prong of the Military Commission Act of 2006 definition is unjustifiably broad. But the second prong of the definition is far worse. It appears to delegate to the President or Secretary of Defense unrestricted power to deem anyone an unlawful enemy combatant. All it requires is that a "competent tribunal" like a Combatant Status Review Tribunal (CSRT) make the determination. (CSRTs are the administrative boards that review detentions at Guantanamo.) The bill itself says nothing about the substance of the criteria that the tribunal should apply.
Check facts before typing, please.
Im trying to tell my fellow gun-owning conservatives why they are going down to defeat in a few days. I cannot turn my back on the rest of the Constitution to defend the Second Amendment. The religious bigots, the American Taliban if you will, (Dobeson, Falwell, etc.) are a much larger threat to freedom than the Democrats.
Hope that helps,
It seems you didn't even read what was written HERE a few days ago.
Check your own facts.
The Constitution overrides this law, for Americans. Laws that described the treatment of prisoners in past wars over the past 200+ years didn't apply to Americans, either, unless, perhaps, they were found wearing German uniforms or something.
I took a seminar on The Patriot Act. Mostly fill. All subject to judicial review. honestly mostly a token effort, with little that isn't either duplicated or almost duplicated by existing law.
I personally believe that instead of Bush/Chaney or Gore/Lieberman, it should have been Powell/McCain.
Separate names with a comma.