Obsolete/little used cartridges

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by HowieG, Aug 6, 2021.

  1. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Reloading/Reloading%20Manuals/

    Download the Lyman's 44th edition, but like the others said, it is the rimless 30-30. I have downloaded all the manuals they have here.
     
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  2. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

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    I do t think anything I own is obsolete… but a few are fading a bit as time marches on…

    .32 H&R
    .257 Robert’s
    6.5x55
    .35 Remington
    .41 Magnum
    28 gauge
    16 gauge
    Not all that common but not really fading:
    .300 Weatherby
    Aging mil surps:
    .30 Carbine
    7.92x57
    .303 British

    Stay safe.
     
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  3. JDinFbg

    JDinFbg Member

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    I like ugly rifles that shoot insanely accurate. In my book it's how they shoot, not what they look like, that counts.
     
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  4. Toprudder
    • Contributing Member

    Toprudder Contributing Member

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    I just got into loading 7.62x38mmR (7.62 Nagant). The brass is not easy to find, except in factory ammo. The factory ammo I have seen is .308” bullets instead of the proper .310” which doesn’t help accuracy. I have even experimented with forming 223 cases into full-length Nagant brass. Very little load data exists for it. It has been challenging.
     
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  5. Hasaf

    Hasaf Member

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    I have a 22tcm bolt action rifle. I suspect that it will eventually be hard to find ammunition for it. Unfortunately, the guy that was doing 9mm conversions on them is out of business.
     
  6. mokin

    mokin Member

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    I've got a couple .303s I load for. I shoot one of them regularly. It's hard for me to think of it as obsolete. I also have a 6.5 Carcano. I don't shoot it much but I really enjoy it when I do.
     
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  7. Austin Albright

    Austin Albright Member

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  8. Austin Albright

    Austin Albright Member

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    Interesting you should mention the 7mmTCU. I just bought a Thompson Contender 10 inch barrel in that caliber yesterday. Scouring my loading manuals for load data today.
    The 300 Savage in a model 99 was the rifle I used for my first deer. That was a couple days ago. Did that in high school and graduated in 1971. Thanks for bringing back a fond memory.
     
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  9. JDinFbg

    JDinFbg Member

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    The 'parent' case for the 280 Remington is 30-06. It should be fairly straight forward to form once-fired 30-06 brass (generally fairly available) into 280 Remington. Just a suggestion.
     
  10. WVRJ

    WVRJ Member

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    The 280's datum length is .050 longer than the 30-06.This was done to keep someone from putting a 280 round in the 270,which has the same datum length as the 06.Making 280 brass out of 30-06 isn't just a matter of necking down the 06 brass.
     
  11. twarr1

    twarr1 Member

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    @Toprudder, Is your brass long enough to create an effective gap seal in the Nagant M1895?
    I’ve toyed with the idea of loading the 7.62x38R. I seems like a good challenge.
     
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  12. EricBu

    EricBu Member

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    I've got a couple pieces of new Starline 45 Cowboy Special brass. Gonna play around with them and make some mouse fart loads for 45 Colt. I'm really hoping they will run in my Henry X, because that would be a super cool suppressed load.
     
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  13. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    Can you make .45Cowboy from .45AR and if you can, is it easier than starting with .45Colt? Should just be turning down the rim thickness on an AutoRim.
     
  14. EricBu

    EricBu Member

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    Yeah, you could....turn down rim thickness. But buying brand new Cowboy Special brass from Starline is even easier;)

    I'm going to start with 10% off start loads for 45 AR and 45 ACP. My goal is to create a ~ 750 240 RNFP from my Henry X Lever using a fast powder like TiteGroup or AA2 for shooting suppressed. I'm thinking it will be scary quiet, and a fun 'yote load, but without the huge empty space of the 45 Colt. Plus I think I will get 2 or 3 more in the tube.
     
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  15. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    No.2, definitely. I like it for big bullets in revolvers for pushing cans around and thumping pins. :D TG I'm not so crazy about in big cases.

    @bigpower491 introduced me to Ramshot Competition for .45ACP - he's got a buddy who uses Berry's 200gr hollow points over 4.5gr. for right about 850fps, very clean he says - and I adapted that to .45AR for my Smith 1917 - X-Treme 200gr. PHP over 3.8gr. of R.Comp for right around 720fps from the 6" barrel. I wanted something I could hand the kids or ladies that's a big gun with no boom, no flash, and not much smoke. R.Comp is faster than TG, as fast as Nitro 100 and N310 - IF you can find either one of them they'd be good, too. Let us know how the TG works out.
     
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  16. JDinFbg

    JDinFbg Member

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    You are correct that the 280 case is longer (actually, 0.046" longer) than the 30-06. However, I disagree with your statement that one could put a 280 cartridge in a 270 and that overall cartridge length has any bearing on this. The 280 case has an outside neck diameter of 0.315", whereas the 270 outside neck diameter is 0.310" so on that basis I don't think it would easily fit. Further, the 280 has a dimension from the base to the shoulder of 1.999", whereas on the 270 this dimension is only 1.948". This would clearly preclude putting a 280 round in a 270. The 280 and 270 have the same overall case length of 2.540", and 270 brass might be easier to find than 280 brass. Thus, it should be very straight forward to fire-form 270 brass into 280 brass using the "Cream-of-Wheat" process.

    Relative to forming 30-06 brass down to 280, when forming brass for a smaller caliber from a larger caliber case, the brass 'grows' in length since one is constricting the diameter of the case (the brass has to go somewhere). How much growth one would get would be the question, but it would be easy enough to experiment on to find out just exactly how much length gets added when squeezing a 30-06 case down to 280. Further, the length data given for cartridges are the maximum length, and the trim-to length is usually recommended to be 0.010" less. So now we are only talking about a potential overall length difference of 0.036" between the 30-06 max length and the 280 trim-to length. I think it would get close enough for government work. I got the dimensions mentioned above from the Lyman 50th Edition Reloading Handbook.
     
  17. EricBu

    EricBu Member

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    I'm writing those down. See, I personally love TG in big cases....it's not position sensitive, it's crazy consistent, and I've not found a powder yet that burns cleaner on suppressor hosts.....just zero blow back. Not that it's a concern on the wheel guns, lol......but in the carbines it's nice.

    I would dearly like to try some more fast powders, and those you listed are ones I'll look out for. I think the biggest reason to make it work with TG is that I bought 2 8lb jugs of it in 2019....and TG goes a LOOOONNNNGGGG way.

    Funny enough, I just got done shooting my Ruger Blackhawk 44 Mag with 240 RNFP Hi-Tek coated MBC bullets over 4.5 grains of TG. That was a nice, fun, pleasant shooting bullet right there.
     
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  18. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    I guess my dislike of TiteGroup is a little silly but it doesn’t seem to expand the cases and seal quite as quick so I end up with flame scorched case mouths. They clean up fine but well it just annoys me. I burn enough TG and enjoy shooting it. Mostly in semi autos.
     
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  19. EricBu

    EricBu Member

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    This is true. TG does seem to do that, less so as you go up on the charge. That doesn't bother me so much, it comes right off in the tumbler....
     
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  20. Toprudder
    • Contributing Member

    Toprudder Contributing Member

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    Yes, my brass is full length. One nice thing about the brass forming a gas seal in the barrel is that the cylinder stays clean. I did my normal routine for cleaning revolvers by taking the cylinder out, and noticed there was no powder residue in the cylinder. All I had to do was clean the barrel. :)

    I've refined my process a little more now. I bought some bullet sizing bushings from NOE and now size the bullets down to .311. I also bought a rifle expander from them, .313-.309, to expand the case before seating the bullet. The crimp operation, though, was bulging the case behind the crimp, enough that they would not chamber. I now run them back up into the case sizing die just enough to remove the bulge.

    It is a long process to load them, but I take satisfaction in knowing that I made rounds that perform better (at least in my gun) than any factory ammo. I wish I had a small lathe, I would start turning 223 cases into x38 brass, just for the hell of it. :)
     
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  21. GW Staar

    GW Staar Member

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    I only have one rifle with an odd/obsolete caliber......one I got out of an abandoned self storage unit. (I own a facility) It's a 22-243 Middlestead, that shoots like a laser, and re-chambered from a FN 7mm Mauser. Brass made by necking down .243W. brass, forming a tighter angled shoulder and longer neck. I was able to buy a Redding die set for it, and rebuilt the poorly done feed box, but I have to be honest....I'm too lazy to do much with it, since I don't hunt varmints any more. Warning: Getting old does that.;)

    IMG-2551.jpg
    Yep, set and hair trigger FN.
    Middlestead.jpg
    Nope, not my group. Just a good picture of the round. Hmmm, I think mine is as accurate....I should take it out and photo shoot my own group....huh!
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2021
  22. burrhead

    burrhead Member

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    Obsolete? Here's a 722 in 244 Rem with a Balvar 8 scope. For you young'uns, the scope has no turrets but instead the mount is adjustable for elevation and windage. The first pic shows the adjustment screws. The scope was made in 1956 and I still use it for deer hunting.

    Good brass (Norma) is hard to get and over a $1 a piece when you find it. PPU and Hornady, the only other sources, are junk.

    IMG_20210911_122736771_HDR (2).jpg

    IMG_20210911_122702994_HDR (2).jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2021
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  23. JmacD

    JmacD Member

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    I shoot a 250-3000. I’ve shot reloads out of it since I’ve had it. But now I live 1200 miles from my grandpa who loaded for me. But I’m now working on starting in on reloading myself.
     
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  24. .308 Norma

    .308 Norma Member

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    Now that I think about it, I guess I've only been "loaded" once. Every time I've been "loaded" after that, I was actually "reloaded.":D
    Just clowning around, JmacD. I think loading for the good ol' 250-3000 would be a lot of fun if I had one.:thumbup:
     
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  25. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    7.7 Jap. I pull down 54r & use powder grain for grain & seat the LPS bullet right on top. Makes a spectacular flash, but surprisingly accurate in my 20.5" bbl.
     
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