Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Odd "bulge" case head area of 30-30?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Rule3, Jun 20, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    4,935
    Location:
    Florida
    I noticed something I have not seen before. I load most all calibers in handgun and a lot of 223 Rem.

    The pictures are full sized, cleaned and trimmed 30-30 brass I have been using some new Win brass and have not seen this bulge or bump on any of that brass.

    I posted 2 other brands to show what I am referring to. I did not name the brass to avoid any brass bias.:)

    So, is this just do to a heavier case and varies due to the brand? Nothing changed other than these few pieces of other brass I got from a friend.

    I hope you can see in the pictures, about 1/4 inch above the case head.

    3 different brands, the first group of three is the most obvious.

    [​IMG]

    Close up of the first 3 cases.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,082
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    Perfectly normal in a lot of calibers.

    The case expanded to fit the chamber.

    Until it got to the thicker tapered case web, which didn't expand.

    The ones that did it worse were either softer brass, or loaded to higher pressure.

    [​IMG]

    rc
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  3. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    8,651
    Location:
    Hopewell Big Woods
    The first 3 web area may be smaller in diameter then the others when new & unfired. The thinner body expands Normal for some.
     
  4. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    4,935
    Location:
    Florida
    Yes, I understand the stretching when fired, but the resizing die does not return it back to the same size? Or the resize die does not go down that far?

    The first brass is Remington, the second is Win and the the third is Fed.

    The Win which I have loaded and resized 2 or 3 times, the other I believe (99% sure) it to be once fired that I cleaned and resized.
     
  5. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    8,651
    Location:
    Hopewell Big Woods
    The resizing die does not return the thick web area back to the same size. The resize die does not go down that far. The part below the shell holder can not be sized.
     
  6. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    21,955
    Yes and yes.
    The sizing die does not reduce the case all the way down to new.
    The sizing die does not size all the way to the rim. There is .125" buried in the shellholder and the die has an easy entry flare or radius that does not touch.

    I think it likely that the Winchester brass is a bit smaller than the others.
     
  7. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    45,586
    Location:
    Alabama
    The guys have it right. They look just like this .35 Remington cases that has been fired nine times and has no sign of an internal rut but shows the same expansion just above the solid web where it swelled to fit the chamber.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    4,935
    Location:
    Florida
    Thanks all.
    Rather than some of the brass being softer, could it also be the opposite and some of the brass has thicker or heavier web area and thus a little stronger??

    The brass that shows the bump is much older and perhaps made better? Just a WAG.;)
     
  9. jr_roosa

    jr_roosa Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2007
    Messages:
    980
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    My Garands have GI cut chambers that are a little more generous in the rear and they do this to commercial brass. GI brass not so much, and who knows why...maybe thicker walls, harder brass, or larger at the base.

    Cut one of yours in half that has the step and one that doesn't and see for yourself what's going on. Maybe even take some calipers to the case heads and see if the ones without the step started out bigger.

    The case head separation rings for me show up about 1/4" above that step off, by the way.

    Sizing dies are not designed to get you back to "new" size, just enough to get you back in the chamber. "Small Base" dies will get you closer to where you started, but still not all the way.

    -J.
     
  10. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    9,832
    Location:
    SW Arizona
    If you haven't already done this, I would use a paper clip with the tip sharpened and bent to feel the inside for incipient separation signs. A good light to look inside also. I don't know how many times that brass has been resized, but it is never a bad idea to inspect a few that look the most defined.
    Other wise, it's just where the die stopped during sizing.

    GS
     
  11. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    4,935
    Location:
    Florida
    Good tip. I do not think the brass I just got has ever been reloaded but never hurts to check.
    My brass (Win) was new and has only seen 2-3 reloads of Cowboy fart loads.:D

    Thanks
     
  12. HOWARD J

    HOWARD J Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    Messages:
    2,117
    Location:
    S/E Michigan
    I have that problem on a Savage Edge in win 243
    I now use Prvi-Ppartizan brass & I do not get a bulge or stretch
     
  13. jeeptim

    jeeptim Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2010
    Messages:
    573
    Location:
    California
    Really good tip!!!
    I have access to lots of brass and I would pass on reloading brass that looked like that. Would rather use it less trimming.
     
  14. kayaks

    kayaks Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    Valdez, Alaska
    I reload the 30-30 and agree that most of what is being seen in the pictures is just the limit of the resizing die. For what it is worth, I used have trouble with denting the cases, using a lube pad and getting too much lube on the case. The spray on products work really well and so far I haven't gotten one stuck :)
     
  15. RainDodger

    RainDodger Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,693
    Location:
    Great Northwest
    You have likely already done this, as it sounds like you're an experienced hand loader... so don't take offense... :)

    I'm going to assume that your sizing die is also adjusted all the way down so you're at least full length sizing as far as possible.

    (The only reason I mention this is that I have numerous presses mounted for specific purposes and on a rare occasion I have moved a die to another press and had to actively think about having to re-set the die adjustment, as I do it so rarely.) (boy, that is one run-on sentence, isn't it?)
     
  16. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,082
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    That is not the limit of the sizing die.

    The sizing die will size the case down to about 1/8" of the case head, when the die is properly adjusted to contact the shell holder.
    The shell holder thickness keeps the die from sizing any further down then 1/8" of the flat of the case head.

    What you are seeing 1/2" up the case, is thicker unexpanded case web taper that didn't expand for whatever reason I outlined in post #2.

    So the sizing die didn't need to touch it.
    Because it was smaller then SAAMI spec to start with.

    That's my story, and I'm sticking too it.

    rc
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2013
  17. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    8,651
    Location:
    Hopewell Big Woods
    +1 what RC said. Walkalong, your brass looks like its loaded a little on the hot side?
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2013
  18. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    45,586
    Location:
    Alabama
    I would say mostly fat chamber, but it has had some near max/max loads fired in it. It is a test case with nine firings on it after I found it at the range. No sign on an internal rut. I have pushed a 180 Gr jacketed bullet between 2250 to 2275 FPS from a 20" barrel using the max TAC data for a 200 Gr jacketed bullet. I also went a little over "max" with H335, but backed off. Not usually, but with some loads I will push them pretty good and then settle on something a bit lower.
     
  19. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    8,651
    Location:
    Hopewell Big Woods
    A 180gr at 2275 out of a 20" is moving them along. After 9 firing, that would expand the brass well.
     
  20. hang fire

    hang fire Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,089
    What gun were they fired in? If a lever gun, many had very generous chambers.

    Just me, but if the cartridges will chamber without FLS, I would NS only to prevent over working the brass.
     
  21. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    45,586
    Location:
    Alabama
    That was the hottest, they were not all up there. ;) :)
     
  22. jr_roosa

    jr_roosa Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2007
    Messages:
    980
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I have tried minimally resizing 30-30 and not only is my accuracy no better, but I have trouble closing the action enough to disengage the safety system on the model 94 on some rounds. My brass doesn't get case head separations anyway and usually fails with neck or shoulder splits, so I now push the shoulder back .005" or even a little more for .30-30. I'll trade brass life for reliability since I don't really shoot high volumes of .30-30 anyway.

    J.
     
  23. DeadFlies

    DeadFlies Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2011
    Messages:
    394
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    All of my 30-30 brass, about 200 pieces, looks like that. Its all been reloaded numerous times. Mixed headstamps, no worries. I load 'em rather on the light side though and th few that ive had the toss have all been due to neck /shoulder splits.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page