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(OH) Customer In Bar Charged With Shooting Would-Be Robber

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Drizzt, May 9, 2003.

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  1. Drizzt

    Drizzt Member

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    Customer In Bar Charged With Shooting Would-Be Robber

    2 hours, 11 minutes ago Add Local - WLWT ChannelCincinnati.com to My Yahoo!


    Two young men allegedly tried to rob a bar late Thursday, but the attempt ended when one of the bar's customers shot one of the robbers, according to police.

    The shooting happened just after 11 p.m. at Junkers Tavern on Langland Avenue in Northside, WLWT Eyewitness News 5 reported.

    Police said Joseph Person and Demico Hester, both 18, came into the bar armed with handguns.

    According to police reports, Person pointed a gun at a 68-year-old woman who was tending bar and said, "This is robbery. Nobody move. Give us the (expletive) money."

    Moments later, bar customer Harold McKinney, 54, shot Person in the head, police said.

    Person was taken to a local hospital. The extent of his injuries is not known.

    Hester allegedly hid in the back of the bar until police found and arrested him.

    Person is charged with two counts of aggravated robbery, and Hester is charged with one count of aggravated robbery.

    McKinney, who is a member of the Northside Citizens On Patrol, is charged with having a weapon inside a liquor establishment and felonious assault.

    Additional details are not available.

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=410&ncid=410&e=1&u=/ibsys/20030509/lo_wlwt/1611208
     
  2. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    I was going to say something about Problem #2 but I know from the Internet that it does not exist.:uhoh:
     
  3. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    The radio report I heard this morning said that the good guy was also being charged with CCW. Seems dumb to do here in Hamilton County when the liquor establishment charge would be less controversial and easy to prove.

    BTW- from my office window I can see a guy threatening to jump from a bridge into the Ohio River. Cops everywhere. No word on whether he walked from the Ohio side or the KY side.
     
  4. Shaggy

    Shaggy Member

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    Unbelievable. A guy foils a robbery and possibly saved some lives and the cops arrest him. I would love to sit on that grand jury. :fire: I'd indict the prosecuter for trying to bring the case.
     
  5. Geech

    Geech Member

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    What's Problem #2?
     
  6. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Shaggy, not unbelievable at all. It happens every day. Not all states have grand juries. Some are information states.

    Geech, Problem #1 is the threat in front of you. Problem #2 is what happens next, criminal/civil/administrative. It is widely believe among the gun culture, even here on THR, that if you use your deadly weapon against a fellow human being that you will be treated as a hero. As you can see, that is not always the case.:uhoh:
     
  7. Geech

    Geech Member

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    I see, thanks.
     
  8. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    He should be given a civic salutation for valor and good citizenship, not an orange jump suit.
     
  9. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    So ... it is only okay to bring a weapon into a liqour establishment if you are planning on robbing the place ...?

    (Guess I shouldn't have eaten those mushrooms)
     
  10. jsalcedo

    jsalcedo Member

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    I know at least here in Texas a bar owner, employee or agent of can get around the 51% rule and carry or use a gun in a place that serves alcohol.

    Hopefully the same would be true for Ohio and the bar owner can claim Mkinny was acting or working on his behalf.
     
  11. Nightfall

    Nightfall Member

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    But, but, I thought gun laws banning carry in bars and everywhere else the gov't can get away with was for our protection?! I thought someone with a gun around liquor will pull it out and start killing people (especially kids!)... was I lied to by the leftists?! :rolleyes:

    Give this man a medal and all the ammo he wants. Tar and feather anybody involved with prosecuting this good citizen. :fire:

    Everyone pushing gun control say they want to fight crime, but then they push laws that punish anybody who defends the lives of those around them, and stops violent crimes in progress. This makes me physically ill. :mad:
     
  12. Desertdog

    Desertdog Member

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    Gun laws gets the GOOD GUY arrested also.

    I hope this guy has enough money to make a 2nd Amendment case out of this.

    Robbery attempt was not a joke
    http://www.cincypost.com/2003/05/09/subrob050903.html
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    By Roy Wood
    Post staff reporter

    Todman Emmons initially thought it was a joke when two men came into Junkers Tavern in Northside late Thursday night wearing disguises.
    "It was a like a scene out of 'Scary Movie,'" a spoof of horrorfilms, said Emmons.

    Within a few seconds, however, one of the men was pointing a gun in Emmons' face and grabbing $16 off the bar while the other gunman ran behind the bar trying to get money from the cash register.

    About that time a customer sitting on the barstool next to Emmons pulled out a handgun and shot the nearest robber in the head.

    "The bullet went right past the back of my head," said Emmons, 39, owner of a remodeling business. "I'm still shaken up."

    Emmons described Junkers Tavern, at 4356 Langland Ave., as "like Cheers but a little kookier."

    He said he and a friend helped restrain the wounded gunman until police arrived. Despite his injury the robber continued to try to escape, Emmons said.

    The SWAT team was called in to flush out the second robber, who hid in a heat shaft.

    Cincinnati police said Joseph Person, 18 of Blair Street, Walnut Hills, was charged with two counts of aggravated robbery.

    University Hospital officials said Person was in critical condition early this morning.

    Person was out of jail on bond on disorderly conduct charges stemming from separate incidents May 2 andMarch 20.

    Demeico Hester, also 18, of Madison Road in Madisonville is charged with one count of aggravated robbery. Hester has a past cocaine trafficking conviction.

    The bar patron, Harold McKinney, 54, of Chase Avenue in Northside, was charged with felonious assault and having weapons in a liquor establishment.

    As part of the group, McKinney has no special rights to carry a firearm, and, as part of the group's agreement with police, is not to carry weapons while on patrol for the group, said police spokesman Lt. Anthony Carter.

    His status Thursday night with regard to the Citizens on Patrol is being investigated, Carter said.
     
  13. Drizzt

    Drizzt Member

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    update...

    Evidently, Harold is a poster over on FreeRepublic...


    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/908571/posts
     
  14. ImJustRick

    ImJustRick Member

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    Save the day, go to jail.

    It sounds like a joke: Guy walks into a bar. Bar gets held up by two gunmen. Guy pulls out a piece and shoots one of the stick-up men, and gets sent to jail for felonious assault!

    Here's the link.

    And for those of you who don't want to click:

    Ordinarily, the more than 500 members of the Citizens on Patrol Program walk the streets of 21 Cincinnati neighborhoods on the lookout for crime, carrying nothing more than a police radio and a cell phone.

    Thursday night, at a Northside bar, one of those patrol members, 54-year-old Harold McKinney, found some crime. And he was carrying a semiautomatic pistol.

    Police say McKinney shot an 18-year-old Walnut Hills man, Joseph Person, while Person and DeMeico Hester, 18, also of Walnut Hills, were attempting an armed robbery of Junker's Tavern on Langland Avenue shortly after 11 p.m.

    Person was shot in the head and remained in critical condition Friday afternoon at University Hospital. Hester, police said, fled the bar after his partner was shot. He was found later hiding in the heating shaft of a coin laundry next door. Person was charged with two counts of aggravated robbery. Hester was charged with one count of aggravated robbery.

    But police also charged McKinney with felonious assault and carrying a weapon inside a tavern. He remains in the Hamilton County Justice Center on no bond. He will be arraigned at 9 a.m. today in Hamilton County Municipal Court.

    Police said Friday that COPP members are told plainly that they are never to carry weapons and to never intervene in a crime in progress.

    "When he did that, he was not a member of COPP,'' said Officer Eric Franz, who trains COPP members in how to patrol their neighborhoods. "He was just a guy in a bar.''

    All the COPP recruits are told "over and over again'' that they are not to try to stop criminals themselves: They are supposed to call the police.

    The motto of the COPP program is straightforward: "See it, hear it, report it.''

    COPP volunteers go through a 20-hour training program that includes 12 hours of classroom work and eight hours of "ride-alongs" with Cincinnati police officers.

    Franz said he does not know McKinney well but said he remembers him going through the training.

    "I don't know what this guy was thinking," Franz said.

    "Whatever he did, he did on his own. It has nothing to do with what has been a successful program. These people have been our eyes and ears."

    Thursday night, McKinney was one of a handful of patrons in the bar when two men in hoods that hid their faces walked in waving handguns.

    One of them, according to witnesses, pointed a gun at a 68-year-old woman who was tending bar and shouted, "This is a robbery. Nobody move.''

    Todman Emmons, 39, of Northside was standing at the bar talking to his roommate and McKinney when the two gunmen entered.

    At first, he said, he thought it was a joke, but it became very real when one of the men wheeled around and pointed a gun directly in his face.

    "It was all over real quick,'' Emmons said. "The one guy was pointing a gun at me and the other guy was behind the bar, trying to open the register. Then, Hal (McKinney) pulls his gun and shoots.''

    Emmons and his roommate held the wounded man on the floor of the bar until police arrived minutes later. Police found the $16 one of the robbers had taken off the bar.

    Emmons said he knew McKinney was a member of the neighborhood's citizen patrol. "He's always been a real good member of the community,'' he said.

    He has mixed feeling about what transpired at Junker's.

    If the armed robbers hadn't been stopped, Emmons said, "a lot of innocent people might have been hurt. It could have been a whole lot worse than it was.

    "I can't condone what (McKinney) did,'' he said, "but I can't condemn it either.''
     
  15. Baba Louie

    Baba Louie Member

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    Interesting,

    Same thing happened here in LV a while back, except it was an off-duty officer (w/ BUG) who shot it out with the bad guy (officer got hit several times w/ a .40 S&W during the melee)...

    Perp down and out.

    Hero comes out of hospital OK. Grateful city and Bar patrons.
    The band playing at the bar that night happened to be a couple of other cops who had several of their buddies in the crowd. Wrong night to rob THAT bar.

    Officer said he wasn't gonna do anything but be a witness until the bad guy decided to get serious.

    Hero here, Locked up there.

    While it might be interesting to speculate about the bar shooting described above by a non-LEO, why bother? Shouldn't have a gun anywhere booze can mix into your blood, I've been told and I believe.

    Adios
     
  16. MJRW

    MJRW Member

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    Its a good thing that law preventing handguns from being in bars is there. Otherwise those two robbers would have been armed....
     
  17. TarpleyG

    TarpleyG Member

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    Is SWAT needed for everything nowadays or what?

    GT
     
  18. Don Gwinn

    Don Gwinn Moderator Emeritus

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    Probably not, but if you have a SWAT team, and you have a desperate armed suspect hiding out in a building that has to be cleared, the tumblers probably fall into place pretty easily. Better SWAT than the patrol cops. They clear buildings for a living, right?

    I found it interesting that there's a reference to the COP group to which the shooter belongs at the end of the story, but before it was introduced. A simple mistake, but it might mean serious editing was done at the last minute.
    Or not, of course.
     
  19. cordex

    cordex Member

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    *shrug*
    If you're a regular-Joe beat cop who maybe forgot to put on his Kevlar that morning, and you arrive at the scene of an armed robbery with one suspect shot and still fighting and the other holed up somewhere, are you going to shrug and risk your rear-end trying to pull an armed attacker from his hideyhole, or are you going to call dispatch and ask them to pretty, pretty please send the big black van loaded with men who get paid to play with people who want to shoot back.

    If you've got 'em and there's a situation that can wait for them to get together and they're better equipped to handle whatever is going on, I say use 'em.

    I know, sometimes it seems like a doctor doing a nurse's duty, but if the doctor is available, why shouldn't he pull a splinter?
     
  20. Ed Brunner

    Ed Brunner Member

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    There is no limit to stupidity.

    WOW!
     
  21. Erik

    Erik Member

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    Carrying without a permit, if that is the case, I can see.

    Felonious assault? Nope.

    Well, maybe if we're talking a suburb of Cincinatti, England. ;)

    And who cares if he's in the neighborhood watch or not? Like that makes a difference one way or another.
     
  22. Erik

    Erik Member

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    "Is SWAT needed for everything nowadays or what?"

    If not for responding to a high-risk, armed and dangerous, just commited an agravated felony, and is likely feeling pretty desperate guy holed-up subsequent to a shooting then for what?
     
  23. answerguy

    answerguy Member

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    and

    They had to restrain the bad guy who had a bullet in his head?
     
  24. faustulus

    faustulus Member

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    And that is why we will lose.
     
  25. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    I not only condone what he did, I condemn anyone who'd even consider arresting and prosecuting him.
     
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