Ok, a walking holster I may be...

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by david58, Apr 10, 2021.

  1. david58

    david58 Member

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    62, bum knee, two bad shoulders. Likely not going to be the best candidate for a Krav or Judo or whatever martial art class (one bum shoulder was almost destroyed in a handgun retention class,,,). So since I have no ground game, am not a boxer, likely not a candidate to deliver a roundhouse kick...so am I just the proverbial "walking holster"?

    Is that bad?

    How many of us are there that will never be able to win a hand-to-hand fight, and therefore rely on keeping our head on a swivel and the prime tactical approach of getting the heck out of Dodge?
     
  2. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Member

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    Count me in. Awareness and avoidance are my go-to strategies. If I ever have to go hands on again, my only chance is if the other guy is also middle aged, out of shape, arthritic, surgically reconstructed and just doesn't feel like fighting anymore. Otherwise, I'm going to stick with vigilance and caution.
     
  3. Hugger-4641

    Hugger-4641 Member

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    Yep, more than likely I'm not going to be assaulted by another middle aged man with the same handicaps. Most likely would be a younger thug who knows he has a physical advantage. If he can take me out before I can react, then I guess its my time, otherwise, I'll be relying on disparity of force as part of my legal defense.
     
  4. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    Same here, pretty much (though I'm in pretty good aerobic condition and still do some lifting), but until I retire, there's always the chance that I will again have to go hands-on, but since I've promoted up to what's basically an administrative job, not likely. I had a partner back in the day who, when we responded to fights, would always pre-emptively engage the smaller person, but if one is alone, team tactics go out the window.

    Avoidance continues to be the best tactic. Best tactic #2 is never, ever, taking one's cell phone out of one's pocket unless one is stationary and aware. Especially when walking on city streets. Or after dark. Or ever.

    I stay away from gas stations/mini-marts after midnight, try to avoid Wal-Marts (easier since they no longer sell guns and ammo), don't go to bars (unless it's with every person on my shift for a work party) and stay the hell away from Seattle...
     
  5. WrongHanded
    • Contributing Member

    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    Is it bad? Hopefully you never find out. Hopefully none of us do.

    I don't think advanced martial art training is necessary for effective self defense. If I did, I'd still be doing judo and ju jitsu. But some basic close quarters fighting experience will increase the chances of you getting to your gun in an ambush situation. From what little I've seen of Aikido and Hapkido, they seem to be very focused on hand diversion and joint locks from a standing position. Those types of skills could well increase a person's ability to make enough space to get to their firearm.
     
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  6. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Administrator Staff Member

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    Here's what I posted on the other thread.

    Here's my take on the situation. It's pretty much the same as my take on all self-defense.

    1. Learn enough about real-world self-defense encounters so that you can form a realistic picture of the things that can happen.
    2. Learn about the things a person can do to deal with the various things that happen in real-world encounters.
    3. Think through plans for the various things you might have to deal with. Don't just think about one plan or the absolute best plan for each situation--you may not be able to implement the ideal approach. By the way, I don't mean just daydream through this. I mean use what you've learned in steps 1 & 2 to see how specific real world threats can be countered.
    4. Decide which plans are within your capability. Think about your physical limitations. Think about the time you have to train. Think about the cost in materials and training expenses.
    5. Think about which plans you are willing to put into place and actually would put into place. To use a common example, there's no point in buying exercise equipment if you know you won't use it.
    6. Implement the plans you choose that you believe are reasonable for you.
    7. Don't pretend that you are more prepared than you really are. Understand the limits that your planning and preparation set and remember what Dirty Harry says: "A man's GOT to know his limitations."

    You may not be able to/willing to become an expert in hand-to-hand fighting, but you still need a plan for what to do if someone grabs for your gun. Maybe it's a really simple plan that's not great. Something like grabbing the gun with both hands, screaming, biting and kicking is better than not doing anything at all. But learning some basic retention skills might be easier than you think. Maybe you choose to bolster a miminal active retention scheme with risk reduction and passive retention. So conceal instead of carrying openly. Carry with a retention holster. Carry a gun with an unusual operating technique like a squeeze cocker. Carry a gun with a magazine safety and train to drop the mag if the gun is being taken and you can't stop it.

    The point is that doing nothing at all and just assuming that you've got the bases covered is not a plan--it's not preparation. It's a prayer for luck, and sadly, luck favors the prepared.

    I see people making two common mistakes when it comes to self-defense:

    1. Thinking that because they're more prepared than the average person, or the guy down the street, or the guy from work, that they're prepared enough.
    2. Thinking that because the ultimate level of preparation in one area is difficult or impossible to attain, they can just forget about that aspect of preparation entirely and it won't hurt them.
     
  7. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    As the old saying goes, I ain’t as good as I once was, but I’m as good once as I ever was. I’m fat, out of shape, and asthmatic. I don’t have the stamina to stay in a fight for long, and I can’t fun very far either for that matter. What I do have is strength if I were to be able to get ahold of somebody, but realistically, yeah, I’m not one for a ground and pound brawl.

    Like a lot of folks here, I do keep my senses up for things going on around me, and at times I wished that weren’t the case because people are very strange. In the last year I have clearly been able to tell twice that people were having sex in a public restroom, I have heard as much as I want to about somebody’s cousin Jimmy and his legal troubles after “shaking his wiener at some poor lady”. Oh well, I see and hear plenty of funny stuff to make up for the stuff I wish I could unhear or unsee.
     
  8. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

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    Well, I'm an old fat alcoholic. I hope to some day get back to the Muay Thai gym, but I'm honestly kind of afraid that I'll have a heart attack if I do. I sure as hell can't win an extended hand-to-hand encounter, especially if there are rules involved.

    But I'm still completely comfortable throwing an elbow or sweeping a leg to earn the few precious seconds I might need to get to my gun.

    So I really don't buy the general argument that a fellow is too old or too infirm to take a Krav lesson. A lot of gun men seem to have the idea that non-gun defense is some kind of far East mystical crap that takes a lifetime to learn. The real truth is that any Krav instructor worth his salt is going to be delighted to have an old invalid asking to learn a few things about winning a fight.
     
  9. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    I just had surgery on my right shoulder. If everything works out ideally I still probably will never have the mobility and strength I had before. It really sucks as I'm not even super old (51), just had a freak injury.
     
  10. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    The white tail deer buck is an example of a critter that has great situational awareness, whose primary defense is avoidance and vigilance. When something doesn't feel right, they waste no time getting out of the area. Very elusive. The older they get, the sharper their skills. This is an effective defensive strategy to mimic.
     
  11. Dibbs

    Dibbs Member

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    The way I see it, thugs are far more likely to pick some inattentive schmuck walking along with earbuds and his/her face glued to their phone.
    I keep my phone in my pocket, and have good SA, So I figure that still puts cripple old me ahead of about 75% of the pack.
    Make it a habit to stay away from bad places, stay away from bad people, and stay close to home at bad times.
    We had a saying, back in the Urban, where I come from "If you go looking for trouble, you will find it."
    Google "The Interview" , usually you can spot thugs looking for a mark.
     
  12. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    I dont care how much gun you carry, or how black your martial arts belts are....the best defense is to remove yourself and your loved ones from danger.
    Leave your pride.
    Walk away.
    Move on.
    As my great-uncle would say, "even if you win....you lose".
     
  13. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

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    You sir, are the EXACT reason the framers made the Second Amendment. Everyone has a right to defend themselves in situations they are forced into, ESPECIALLY you @david58.
     
  14. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    Well-said. I'm at the point where I can beat some of these youngsters like a rented mule, but it will take me longer to heal up as a "winner".
     
  15. Hangingrock

    Hangingrock Member

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    At the middle of my seventh decade avoidance of stupid people, places and things is primary. The fight that you never have to fight is the fight that you win.
     
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  16. snowman357

    snowman357 Member

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    your not a walking holster if you carry concealed properly, nobody should know you are armed. For the karate kids if you get jumped unexpectedly your probably a walking holster also. A good concealed carry holster and situational awareness can get you far.
     
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  17. OneFreeTexan

    OneFreeTexan Member

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    Just this morning at my small church we instituted a ‘security committee’, I have been carrying concealed, legally, with belt holster at 3 o clock,, or a shoulder holster, which I have carried for over 30 years. I feel confident, that where I sit, I’m ok. One of the other members is going to carry his 357 magnum in his brief case, asked him how fast he can get it out,, he thinks ‘fast enough’, A lady listening to the conversation pointed at me and said “i’m going to sit by him.”
     
  18. jag1954

    jag1954 Member

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    Yep, same here. I didn't survive cancer and major surgery, multiple broken bones back in my hey-day on motorcycles, 3 wives and various other run-ins with nefarious individuals to all of a sudden at 66 become a hero. I do get exercise both at home and at work (part-time out doors and lots of walking and light continual motion labor that keeps me from tightening up), the cell phone is always in my pocket, I keep the noggin on a swivel, avoid places that may be conducive to rowdiness, practice situational awareness, practice practice and more practice with my EDC and gobble a lot of vitamins. I might be a walking holster, but should the situation arise I pray that I'll have the wherewithal to do both the correct and intelligent thing.
     
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  19. Terry G

    Terry G Member

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    I would like to add that I learned one indisputable fact after 23 years as a LEO. If you go hands on, no matter how big, tough or skilled you are your going to get hurt. It may be minor, a bruised elbow, a banged up knee, or a scratched face but you are going to come away with some damage. It's pretty much guaranteed.
     
  20. loneviking

    loneviking Member

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    Yeah, I saw that walking holster comment and it really pissed me off. There was a time I could handle myself just fine in a scrap. But age takes its toll and to have someone sneer down their nose ignores that there’s something In that holster that I’ve spent a lifetime using.
     
  21. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    I don’t believe the OP meant anything derogatory towards members who were no longer fit enough to get in the cage with an MMA fighter. I’m sure he was just reminding everyone that in a close in fight you may need to know some HTH to open up enough space to use your firearm.
     
  22. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    Winning and surviving is more of a mindset than a skill set.

    Kick them in the nethers. Gouge their eyes or whatever.

    Don’t give up until you win or you die.
     
  23. gyp_c2

    gyp_c2 Member

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    I quit fist fighting fer' fun years ago.
    What I didn't quit, is the awareness that goes along with it. You see things differently after you've trained and fought for real.
    And yes, even when you WIN, you're gonna' hurt after a fight. :thumbup:
     
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  24. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    Right, it was from another thread referencing a comment made by a guy at a martial arts studio when that OP was seeking information on their classes... basically, the youngster told our member that people with guns but no martial arts training were just "walking holsters."

    Which only goes to show that some folks just don't know what they don't know -- joke is on them, though -- most everyone gets old eventually.
     
  25. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Member

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    FL-NC, you nailed it in post 14. In my opinion. Just a few years ago (maybe two), I plowed some kid (looked early 20's) who was hassling an elderly man. Two things I learned: I had the element of surprise because he was focused on the old man but I still was winded and almost out of gas. Second, it took me weeks to get rid of the aches and pains. I must have looked rough because the cops that responded asked me if I wanted to go to the hospital.

    JohnKSa, you, also, made a really good point. Have a plan. Sure, an excellent plan flawlessly executed in great, but even a rudimentary plan marginally executed is better than no plan at all. And in the real world, sometimes we have to do things we'd rather not. You touched on retention. If you carry a gun, this is one of the more important skills.
     
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