Ok, is it really as bad as I think?

[EvilGenius]

I originally purchased T7 to shoot with because I was under the impression that it was less corrosive, or at least more forgiving about how long you waited to clean and how thorough you were than the holy black.

Is it really that bad?

I'm not anal about how historically accurate I am with my use of BP stuff, however I do like to follow the historically accurate camp in a lot of respects because it's just plain simple. I'm the same way with safety razors and shaving ( a few ears perked there...).

I'd like to use real black powder, but I'd hate to miss one little spot and have a permanent reminder of it, also last time I bought a pound of T7 was about $10 less than a pound of Goex at basspro (closest place that sells it), but I get the feeling that may have been abnormal. If it was normal, is it worth the extra cost?

 

[BullSlinger]

I shoot subs and the holy black. I clean my guns after I shoot them. I do not have any of my revolvers or smoke poles falling apart in my hands as a result of missing a spot or two.
Black powder is corrosive, some subs not as bad others as bad or more but it does not happen 15 minutes after you shoot them. Clean when you can but don't put off for days.

 

[Prairie Dawg]

If you spray the bore & gun down with WD-40, you can wait a few days to clean.
It neutralizes BP fouling so it will not corrode your guns
At the end of every cleaning session, I hose the guns down with WD-40 (I buy it by the gallon at Lowes).
Then I set it aside to drain & wipe it down with a towel.
I've been doing it this way since I started shooting black powder in the 1980s.
Never had a rusty gun yet.
--Dawg

 

[rodwha]

There was a thread on one of these forums where a fellow did a side by side comparison of powders. He took a piece of steel and burned a pile of Pyrodex, a pile of Goex, and a pile of T7 and left it in the garage for 3 days.

The Pyrodex looked horrible! The Goex roughed it up a bit, but the T7 didn't leave a spot. That made me wonder what more time would have done with T7.

I find it odd that Goex was more costly.

Do you shoot just because it's fun or are you after hunting type performance? If a little more oomph is wanted try Goex's Olde Eynsford. And if you don't care about a little more power you may want to try it over standard Goex as it's cleaner and only cost $1 more at Grafs.

Check out Grafs cost vs where you go. I bought my T7 from BassPro, but when they were out for months I went there and found that if I bought 3 lbs I broke close enough to even without going anywhere.

 

[EvilGenius]

If you spray the bore & gun down with WD-40, you can wait a few days to clean.
It neutralizes BP fouling so it will not corrode your guns
At the end of every cleaning session, I hose the guns down with WD-40 (I buy it by the gallon at Lowes).
Then I set it aside to drain & wipe it down with a towel.
I've been doing it this way since I started shooting black powder in the 1980s.
Never had a rusty gun yet.
--Dawg

Will Ballistol do the same?

 

[EvilGenius]

There was a thread on one of these forums where a fellow did a side by side comparison of powders. He took a piece of steel and burned a pile of Pyrodex, a pile of Goex, and a pile of T7 and left it in the garage for 3 days.

The Pyrodex looked horrible! The Goex roughed it up a bit, but the T7 didn't leave a spot. That made me wonder what more time would have done with T7.

I find it odd that Goex was more costly.

Do you shoot just because it's fun or are you after hunting type performance? If a little more oomph is wanted try Goex's Olde Eynsford. And if you don't care about a little more power you may want to try it over standard Goex as it's cleaner and only cost $1 more at Grafs.

Check out Grafs cost vs where you go. I bought my T7 from BassPro, but when they were out for months I went there and found that if I bought 3 lbs I broke close enough to even without going anywhere.

I'll keep an eye on prices.

Mostly for fun, but maybe for hunting later.

Which is more powerful? I was lead to understand that T7 was more powerful than Goex.

 

[Fingers McGee]

Will Ballistol do the same?

Absolutely. That is my go to cleaner; although I do use Birchwood Casey BP solven to clean my nipples.

BP is not corrosive. The residue is hygroscopic which causes rust over a period of time - Pyrodex is corrosive - as displayed in the test results Rodwha posted - T7 is probably the cleanest of the bunch; but can be erratic in C&Bs, so I only use it on occasion in cartridges.

Cant understand you having to pay more for BP than T7. BP at most shops around here and by mailorder from Powder Inc or Grafs is half what the going price for T& is.

 

[rodwha]

Triple 7, Swiss, and Olde Eynsford seems to all run similar velocities with the same charge. All of the other powders seem to run at a much reduced, but similar velocity, though I've heard of Pyrodex pellets giving good results too.

For me I have 1 1/2 bottles of 3F Triple 7 and 3 1/2 bottles of 3F Olde E, as well as 1/4 lb of Pyrodex P that'll likely just sit there as I dislike the stuff.

 

[snakeman]

I've been using black mz in my percussion hawken. So far it works great!

 

[EljaySL]

A lot of it depends on your local humidity. The residue from all of these substances attracts moisture and it'll rust your gun. Same day? Next day? Next week? Depends on local conditions. I find it easier just to schedule in cleaning that same day and get it done.

777 is a little easier to clean, but I do mean "a little".

 

[MEHavey]

- delete -

 

[MEHavey]

Good Lord, folks. Black powder is not the boogeyman under the bed waiting to find the least
bit of exposed little toe to pull you under and destroy your soul.

- Just clean the barrel w/ soap & water (3-4 sopping patches) w/ the gun upside down to drain out the nipple
- Pull the nipple and clean the flash channel/threads w/ a soapy patch or two on the end of a screwdriver
- Dry patch out everything (2-3 patches/one pipe cleaner)
- Run an oiled patch down the bore a few times then use the same patch on the screwdriver/in the flash channel
- Same patch to clean off the nipple.
- Oiled pipe cleaner in the flash channel itself
- One fresh/oiled patch to then wipe everything down (barrel/lock/hammer).

Residue (if any) will be neutralized by the oil which will creep all over/under by itself.


~~~~~~~~~~
You can wait to get home to do this, but don't even start a shooting session if you can't at least get
an oil-soaked patch down the barrel and squirted through the flash channel before you leave the range.

 

[Hellgate]

I only use T7 in the .357mag for my Rossi '92. T7 is murder on brass if you don't soak, rinse and dry it within a day or two. For that reason I only use nickeled brass with T7. Regardless it causes a torquoise verdigris in and on the brass if not promptly cleaned off.

 

[BowerR64]

Its funny sometimes ill shoot 18-24 shots ill come home clean it all up and then the next day do it all over again.

I only do it because i want them to shoot as good as they can.

When i first started shooting these guns of my dads i didnt clean them as good or as often because i was so spoiled by smokless powder.

Since i didnt clean them very well my first month or so of shooting these things my shots were all over the place i coudnt hit a thing with em.

I found this little kit at walmart and i swear my shots got better almost over night.

The bore cleaner stuff seem to help break up the fouling better or something i was so happy with it i instantly went out and bought another package incase they sold out or something.

I have since worked it into my cleaning regimen where i use the bore cleaner every couple of cleaning sessions.

I use hot water, the TC bore cleaner and ballastol. I think the TC bore cleaner is simmilar to the ballastol/water mix. Its milky like the ballastol water mix

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

To answer the OP's question, no it is not as bad as you think.

I have stated this numerous times on the pages of this forum. The reason Black Powder was so bad for guns many years ago was the combination Black Powder fouling and residue from corrosive primers. We don't use corrosive primers or caps any more, and the fouling from Black Powder alone is not as corrosive as many think.

Regarding WD-40 'neutralizing' BP fouling; neutralize is a chemical term and it means to bring the pH to 0. Folks tend to throw the term around a little bit loosely in Black Powder circles.

The reason Black Powder fouling creates rust is, as somebody has already stated, it is extremely dry. Anything that dry can wick moisture out of the atmosphere. BP fouling will then hold the water in intimate contact with the steel, and that will cause rust. What I have discovered over the years is that if you saturate the fouling with oil, and Ballistol is an excellent example, the fouling looses its ability to suck any more moisture out of the air. It is like a wet sponge that has been saturated with water. It cannot absorb any more. BP fouling that has been saturated with oil only holds the oil against the steel, it cannot absorb any more water. The oil soaked fouling will not cause any rust.

I do most of my Black Powder shooting at Cowboy Action matches. After driving home and putting everything away I am usually too tired (or lazy) to clean two revolvers, a rifle and a shotgun of Black Powder fouling. I seldom clean my guns the same day I shoot them, I try to get to it within a week. I have sometimes gone a bit longer. My guns already have a coating of Ballistol down inside. If I am attending a two day match I do not clean them the first day. I don't spritz them with anything, I just put them away dirty and shoot them the next day.

So far my guns have not crumbled into unrecognizable piles of rust. If you prepare them properly, you can get away with waiting a few days before cleaning BP fouling from guns, even in the humid New England summer.

 

[Jaymo]

If New England summers are as humid as GA summers, it can almost make gold rust.

 

[Skinny 1950]

I have never noticed any corrosion from black powder or substitutes, most of my guns were bought used and had damage from previous abuse. I have a few guns that I bought new and have used for a few years and they still look like new after I clean them. A fear of corrosion is normal..it can ruin all that we hold dear ie: cars, boats, aircraft and guns.

 

[rodwha]

My Lyman's rifle corroded badly and became a real bear to clean when I listened to the advice of a few CASS type shooters who claimed they brought theirs home and cleaned them whenever they got around to it.

My first day out with my rifle ended up taking me 6 hours (shooting the pistol and rifle), and it took much longer than I anticipated. Got home well past dinner time, and so I put them off 'til the morning. My stainless pistol, shooting T7, was A OK, but my blued rifle was TERRIBLE! It took me over 6 hours! And ever since it's rusted on me after clean up.

But that was my fault. I still don't like Pyrodex because of the residue and stickiness, plus how bad it can be.

I've only used Pyrodex P and RS, 3F Olde Eynsford, and 3F Triple 7 though. I'll take the latter two any day!

 

[MEHavey]

...but my blued rifle was TERRIBLE! It took me over 6 hours!
And ever since it's rusted on me after clean up.

What are you leaving in/on the barrel (and other steel surfaces) after cleaning?

 

[rodwha]

At that time I filled it with WD-40. This was after I realized I wasn't getting it all and left it overnight again. I figured it'd help work as an O2 barrier.

Now I just use Ballistol after they're clean, but I still have to go back after the rifle a week later and reswab it. It comes out a rusty like color a few times. I'm guessing my barrel is pitted now.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

My comments are based only on Black Powder. I have no experience with any of the subs. But I have been shooting Black Powder since 1968. Goex, Elephant, Wano, and Schuetzen.

 

[MEHavey]

Now I just use Ballistol after they're clean...

Forget Ballistol, water sol lube, bore butter, ...and all the
rest of the "traditional" black powder lore.

Just go with standard military grade CLP oils like BreakFree
and/or WeaponShield

Used with even a modicum of after-cleaning wipe-down,
rust is a non-event. Week-after patches should come
as clean as the first day.

 

[OcelotZ3]

I've also been using CLP as in my regular guns and so far it's working.

 

[Jim Watson]

neutralize is a chemical term and it means to bring the pH to 0.

Sorry, Driftwood; but pH 0 is ferociously acidic. Neutral pH is 7. Higher numbers are alkaline.

But correct in one part; most of the components of black powder (or chlorate primer) fouling are salts. They are ALREADY chemically neutral, or nearly so. There is a lot of potassium carbonate in BP fouling, it is slightly alkaline and not very corrosive by itself. All you are doing, what you should be doing, is dissolving and washing them out.

I shoot BPCR and clean on the range. I usually reclean at home for peace of mind, but I have skipped and not rusted a gun. Cases come home decapped in soapy water to be wet tumbled when I get around to it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I tried some Triple 7. It loaded and shot ok; the gun cleaned up with tap water as advertised. If I were to shoot a fake, that would be it.

 

[MEHavey]

45-90 Rolling Block
45-120 Sharps
38-55 HighWall
'61 Springfield (Colt's Special Model)
Enfield Musketoon
`59 Sharps
`60 Army
`51 Navy
3rd Dragoon
(...and have never used anything but black)

So what haven't I got ?
Rust.


Dishsoap, water, and BreakFree (and/or WeaponShield) over the last 39 years.
It's not rocket science guys.


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