OK, this is a new one…

[Mr_Flintstone]

I was shooting 38 special from my Henry today, and I felt a funny ejection. I got the little stubby piece above. It’s broken off well above the web. It was a standard pressure load from Lyman 50th that showed under 17,000 psi on GRT. The brass had been loaded about 5 times. The barrel was not immaculately clean, but only had about 20 rounds (loaded with IMR 4227) through it. The rest of the case is stuck in the chamber. Now, I got a couple questions.

1. What might have caused this?
and
2. How might I get the stuck part of the case out?

 

[Kaldor]

#1: No idea. Brass does weird crap once in awhile
#2: Oring pick, carefully so you dont scratch your chamber. You can probably collapse the brass and it will fall right out. Ironically the super cheap oring picks that are made from Chinesium are the better choice here as they are softer than the barrel steel.

 

[jmorris]

If you can stick a bronze brush into the case, just reverse course and the bristles will pull the case out vs folding back over.

Same reason you need to go all the way through the barrel before you can reverse the brush, cleaning.

 

[FROGO207]

A long thin needle type punch ie icepick. Put the point between chamber and brass ring. Lever and collapse the ring until you get long nose pliers in to pull it out. Do as jmorris suggestes. Get some cerrosafe and do a chamber cast it should come out with the casting piece.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Thanks. I’ll try those things. I’ve never had a 38 special separate before. I’ve had some 357 mag split, but nothing like this.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Update: I got up to go try some things, and I noticed a Placker I had on my end table and decided to trim it so I could push it through with a cleaning rod. It was plastic, so I didn’t have high hopes, but all it took was a slight touch to dislodge the broken off piece of brass.



It wasn’t seized in place like I had feared. It just simply broke off in the chamber.

I’m still concerned as to why it happened.

 

[LiveLife]

1. What might have caused this?

Incipient case head separation for pistol cases?

2. How might I get the stuck part of the case out?

Broken shell extractor for pistol?

Update: I got up to go try some things, and I noticed a Placker I had on my end table and decided to trim it so I could push it through with a cleaning rod. It was plastic, so I didn’t have high hopes, but all it took was a slight touch to dislodge the broken off piece of brass.

It wasn’t seized in place like I had feared. It just simply broke off in the chamber.

Nice!

 

[nofendertom]

I had the same thing happen with a .357mag case. Load was 6.0 Unique and 158gr LSWC. Both pieces came out when I pushed the ejector rod. No idea why, I just chalked it up
as stuff happens." It only happened once in almost 50yrs of reloading.

 

[reddog81]

That’s a weird one. Do you have a bunch of brass form the same lot or was it mixed with a hodgepodge of various brass?

It was probably just a one in a million occurrence and won’t happen again.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

These were PMC brass that I had shot factory and reloaded about 5-6 times. I’ve had other 38 special that has been loaded 20+ times and still good. Maybe it’s like was said and it’s just one of those things.

 

[mdi]

My first thoufht was old, defective brass. The other thing is a levergun lockup is sometimes weaker than other action types, alowing case stretch. Toggle action was known for stretching especially with upper loads. I would try to repeat the failure with known "good" brass...

 

[jmr40]

Reloaded 1time too many. While 5 times doesn't seem like a lot, it was in this case. I've had 30-06 and 308 brass do this before. I've pushed a 9mm or 40 caliber cleaning brush into the chamber from the breach. When pulled out the rest of the brass came out with it.

 

[Mal H]

I find it very odd that the head end of the separated case has a ragged edge, while the mating end that was left in the cylinder appears to be very smooth.

 

[.38 Special]

I've seen that occasionally, always at the cannelure. I knew one old timer who avoided reloading such cases as he had too many failures. I personally have never experienced one myself and treat cannelured cases the same as everything else, but there you go.

(If this is not a cannelured case, then I have no idea beyond "weird stuff that sometimes happens".)

 

[AJC1]

I unfortunately had the same failure in a 357 marlin with a nickle 357 case. As your experience I easily extracted mine with a dental pick.

 

[dannyd]

New Case or Range pickup, corrosion in the case from being outside in the weather.

 

[Charlie98]

If you think about it... and for those of you who shoot rifles like the Garand or M1a... this is no surprise. Unlike shooting those in a revolver, with a lever-action, you are typically jacking the fired case out as soon as it is fired, and sometimes with a bit of gusto, if you see what I mean... and not unlike the violent cycle of a Garand or M1a. If the brass is weakened in any way... the weakness will be exploited. Brass can be weakened in any number of ways, to include too hard of brass (from manufacture or overworking brass while handloading.)

Funny story... the first case head separation I had in my M1a... shut me down at the range. I pack the rifle up and wag it back home, ordered a stuck case kit and waited a few days for it to arrive. I'm all set up to remove the stuck case... I open the action... and the case falls out on it's own! Welllll... shoot! My guess is... after everything cooled off, the brass shrunk back down, at least more than the steel chamber, and lost it's grip on the chamber wall.

 

[.45Coltguy]

If you think about it... and for those of you who shoot rifles like the Garand or M1a... this is no surprise. Unlike shooting those in a revolver, with a lever-action, you are typically jacking the fired case out as soon as it is fired, and sometimes with a bit of gusto, if you see what I mean... and not unlike the violent cycle of a Garand or M1a. If the brass is weakened in any way... the weakness will be exploited. Brass can be weakened in any number of ways, to include too hard of brass (from manufacture or overworking brass while handloading.)

Funny story... the first case head separation I had in my M1a... shut me down at the range. I pack the rifle up and wag it back home, ordered a stuck case kit and waited a few days for it to arrive. I'm all set up to remove the stuck case... I open the action... and the case falls out on it's own! Welllll... shoot! My guess is... after everything cooled off, the brass shrunk back down, at least more than the steel chamber, and lost it's grip on the chamber wall.

You're first paragraph makes sense; never thought of it like that. 2nd paragraph, yep, heard of and have seen that happen. We handloaders run into any matter of "things".

 

[FROGO207]

Never had that exact type of failure in all the years of shooting 38 SPL In handguns. As the OP found out most times the piece left behind is easily removed. I use the oversized brush method first then escalate to cerrosafe. Never needed more than that. To me I would let this fall into odd stuff happens category unless it repeats.

 

[gwpercle]

Brass wears out and sometimes it's just a defect in the brass when the case was formed .
Inspect each case for cracks ... around the case body and long way cracks too .
You can usually get 12 to 20 reloadings in 38 special case ... annealing will help with mouth splits .
That case that seperated looks like it had a manufacturing defect in the brass ... it wasn't anything you did .
I have had a few like that ... one in a 357 Magnum that needed a Brass Bore Brush and a soaking in penetrating oil to get out !

Pick up some brass brushes ... they clean much better and grab onto stuch case separations Much - Much better !
Glad you got this one un-stuck so easily ...
Keep On Keeping On !
Gary

 

[jmorris]

I've seen that occasionally, always at the cannelure.

It's a great process to propagate a failure point from but I couldn't remember any that low. A peek into a 38spl bucket of brass and they are all over the place, some even more than one.



Have one with a deep cannelure like that 2nd case from the left and I think it would let go before an "as struck" case.

 

[Pat Riot]

I have had several .38 Special cases do this. In my case it was brass that had been reloaded 5-7 times and in every instance the brass was either cannelured or had some type of ring etched or stamped into the case when loaded at the factory.
This happened to me over 25 years ago when I was shooting in CAS matches.
My simple fix?
All cannelured or ring stamped brass was either not used or only used in revolvers.

The hardest one to get out was a cannelured nickel case that seperated. That thing was stuck fast in my Winchester 94 Trails End. I am pretty sure I invented some new cuss words on that one.

I used to use dental picks to get them out. You have to be careful not to scratch your chamber.

EDIT:
On the nickel case I mentioned above I had to get crafty. I tried modified snap ring pliers - the kind with replaceable tips. I made long tips for them using 1/8” brass rod with the ends flattened and bent 90°. These were too flimsy. The rods bent with force. My wife was watching me and she said “What if you put your plier things in and grabbed the front of the case then pushed from the other end?” Motioning toward the muzzle.
So I tried several .38 cal brushes on a cleaning rod. That didn’t work but when I tried a .30 cal rifle brush it apparently pushed out on my makeshift brass rods and I was able to get that piece of case out.
To this day cannelured brass is set aside and I do not use nickel plated brass at all for rifle rounds.

 

[buck460XVR]

This can be an issue with lever action .357s when brass is used too many times, or is loaded heavy with brass that has been shot several times. Has to do with the way that a lever action bolt locks up at the rear, allowing the blot to flex and causes an issue similar to as loose headspace. Because of this, the case stretches and will separate. I'm guessing if it was loaded with IMR4227, it was a stiff load.

 

[Walkalong]

Incipient case head separation for pistol cases?

Enough pressure and enough room to stretch and it can happen.

This can be an issue with lever action .357s when brass is used too many times, or is loaded heavy with brass that has been shot several times. Has to do with the way that a lever action bolt locks up at the rear, allowing the blot to flex and causes an issue similar to as loose headspace. Because of this, the case stretches and will separate. I'm guessing if it was loaded with IMR4227, it was a stiff load.

A member shared this with us years ago. Too much pressure.