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Okay - Fingerprints worn away - FBI declines permit (so far)

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Ironbarr, Mar 13, 2004.

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  1. Ironbarr

    Ironbarr Member In Memoriam

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    This is a friend's problem. There should be no hangup since there are 20 or more years of naval career involved. But I have never heard of this before.

    Anyone out there have suggestions/experience?

    -IB
     
  2. pax

    pax Member

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    Weird.

    Suppose an affidavit from his doctor would help?

    pax
     
  3. Backwoods

    Backwoods Member

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    Finger prints don't wear off, exactly. They can wear smooth from the right(wrong?) type of usage, but given a chance they'll grow right back. I suspect that your friend won't have too much of a problem.

    Don in Ohio
     
  4. Shanghai McCoy

    Shanghai McCoy Member

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    I had a buddy in OK with the same problem.He had to get them re-taken a couple of times but he did get the OK .It's not that rare for folks who have worked around acids or hot metal to have scar tissue that messes up the prints.
     
  5. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    I used to be a finger print guy quite a few years ago. People who did lots of metal and wood working often had prints that were hard to read, as did some people who handled paper all day long. Having people was their hands and apply a generous measure of hand lotion usually did the trick.

    Arches. Tents. Loops. Whorls.
     
  6. Ryder

    Ryder Member

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    I was reading some health articles last week. Can't recall the specific disease offhand but I was surprised to learn that there is an illness which can cause your fingerprints to go bye-bye.
     
  7. Ironbarr

    Ironbarr Member In Memoriam

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    Ryder...

    If you can find that, please pass it along... this feller is older than me - he may have something he doesn't know about.

    If it was on internet, please look in your history files. 'Course, he was in naval aircraft maintenance since '49 till retiring. That might contribute.

    Like me just a couple years back, he's just now enjoying his new companion - the H&K in .40.

    -IB
     
  8. Ryder

    Ryder Member

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    Sorry Ironbarr,

    Tried a few searches and can't find it. The internet is a bigggg place and I delete temporary files daily. I read so much that I wouldn't even want to guess as to the specific illness. I don't feel that it was anything imminently terminal but serious enough that I examined my prints.
     
  9. J Jones

    J Jones member

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    I've read about at least one family, in England IIRC, that has no fingerprints genetically.

    Leprosy can make fingerprints go away, but it usually does that by making the fingers go away first. Seriously, why couldn't a skin condition cause loss of fingerprints?
     
  10. orangeninja

    orangeninja Member

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    Ironbar, I take fingerprints all the time. I use either ink or go digital with some type of infrared scanner. I will tell you, fingerprints may be "ALTERED" but even scarring has a uniqueness to it. Why? Because you still will have sweat pores, which may be measured and counted. I suggest your friend:

    1. Use Cornhuskers lotion as often as he can, this will build up the moisture and oils into his skin.

    2. Find a print taker that uses a scanner instead of ink. Sometimes it is the ONLY thing that will work correctly. If he cannot get his prints to take even with a scanner, have the print taker mark each print as "scar" which will help the problem a bit and the print recipiant will note that this is his "actual" print.

    Hope this helps, and yes, Corn Huskers lotion is a brand, it is specifically designed for worked through hands, not like that Jergens stuff or the crap our wives use. The Corn Huskers is the only way to go.
     
  11. BlkHawk73

    BlkHawk73 Member

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    No offense but this shouldn't give the go ahead mearly because of his service time. As has been stated even when prints aren't :normal" there is still unique characteristics for each individual. Follow the lotion suggestions and try again.
     
  12. Doc

    Doc Member

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    finger prints can go away, be worn away
    or even damaged beyond recognition.

    barring scarring (ie acid) they will USUALLY
    become more printable after a hiatus from
    the offending process.

    IMHO, digital would be the way to go...
    our state PD has the system here
     
  13. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Iron, had problems with prints after a period of iron palm training. After I stopped, my prints "reappeared."

    I was told to moisturize my hands and wait a few days.:)
     
  14. Doc

    Doc Member

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    yep, i got 'printed about 6 years ago for an offical purpose
    and one of my prints didn't/wouldn't.
    the tech was unimpressed, said it happens alot
    with surgeons who scrub their hands.

    i guess i don't scrub hard enough!
     
  15. c_yeager

    c_yeager Member

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    The older he is the harder it may be to fix this. It isn't a unique problem so i would imagine that the fed's have a work around. The same thing happened to my granmother when she applied for a volunteer job at our local sherrifs office. She was a nurse for about thirty years so probably managed to scrub them away.
     
  16. Mulliga

    Mulliga Member

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    Why should this even be a problem? I'd venture to say that the vast majority of people have fingerprints, so wouldn't people with worn, scarred, or even non-existent prints be readily identifiable anyway?

    Arghhh...we shouldn't have to printed at all.:fire:
     
  17. Doc

    Doc Member

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    some uses for fingerprints of 'innocent' individuals
    would SEEM appropriate
    how about INS issues?
     
  18. MarkDido

    MarkDido Member

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    I agree that he should use someone who uses a scanner (such as a Livescan) vice inked prints.

    If I get a crummy print on the scanner, I can always delete it and try again until I get an acceptable one. People who do inked prints are less likely to keep trying.
     
  19. treeprof

    treeprof Member

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    This won't help your friend, but I have a question. I remember watching an old Hawaii Five-O episode as a kid where there was a criminal who wasn't leaving any prints, and McGarrett deduced that the person was a pinapple worker whose prints were lost due to the acid in the pineapple. Fingerprint guys, is this possible?
     
  20. carpettbaggerr

    carpettbaggerr Member

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    El T -- Is that the one where you drive your hands into the pots of hot rice to toughen them? (Love all those old kung-fu movies :p )


    And what type of permit is he trying to get from the FBI?
     
  21. MarkDido

    MarkDido Member

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    Not sure about the pineapple juice but I kinda doubt it. If it were true every two-bit hood would be down at the local supermarket ripping off cases of Doles.

    People who work in certain jobs, such as roofers, cement/concrete guys can really screw up their prints. But I have seen some really horrible prints come off my printer at work and get a good, solid AFIS hit. The new technology is pretty amazing.
     
  22. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    What El T is talking about is thrusting his hands into a vat of molten iron (Warning: don't try this with molten steel -- too hot!) and then cupping the liquid in his palms until it solidifies. This is an intimidation technique which, when properly employed in the courtroom, virtually assures a legal victory for the party he is representing. At least that's my experience. And yes, it can affect the clarity of your fingerprints. :rolleyes:
     
  23. cxm

    cxm Member

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    Problem Prints

    Over the past few years of recording prints I have encountered a few with hard to record prints.

    When that happens I was told to make about three sets (cards) and attach a note explaining the prints were the best that could be recorded and the accurately reflected the prints left by the applicant's fingers.

    It was explained to me the finger print requirement was to accurately record a person's prints as they appear at the time of recording. If that is done a correct set of prints has been provided.

    I started doing that, and have not had any rejected since then.

    Might be worth a try.

    FWIW

    Chuck
     
  24. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Henry, no, just sand, sir!:D
     
  25. BigDan

    BigDan Member

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    worn fingerprints

    I work for Brinks Armored Car. My fingerprints failed the "live scan" three times because I'm 57, I guess. One of the old hands at Brinks said "Don't worry, the FBI has to accept after three times." The next thing I knew, I got a gun card in the mail.

    So don't worry.
     
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