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Okay - What's So Bad About Profiling???

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by CAPTAIN MIKE, Jul 4, 2005.

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  1. CAPTAIN MIKE

    CAPTAIN MIKE Member

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    I must admit - my Situational Awareness went UP a couple of notches two nights ago when there was a report on the local news about the number of gang members of different ethnic groups. It was an 'equal opportunity' report with all races covered. The part that concerned me was the dramatic rise in one particular statistic about the rise in Latino gangs because the sheer number and percentage of increase in the last year stood out from the rest.

    The very next day (yesterday), my little boy and make a stop at FatBurger for our "usual" ritual (what he likes to call 'boys night out') on our way home from the movies (saw the new Batman movie). As is my custom, I choose our seats so I can see everything and everybody, with my back towards a wall and near enough to a side exit.

    In comes 4 'homies' with lots of baggy clothes, headbands, goatees, attitude, open shirts long enough to cover weapons, acting all "bad" and swaggering around the place like they want to be noticed. The clothing, walk, look and attitude all spelled 'gang members' to me. So while sipping my drink, I survey the counter help guy (he's in Condition White) and the other customers (two of whom seem to be making an effort to avoid making any eye contact with them, and with the rest of whom are in Condition White).

    My little boy has his back to the Homies and is in between me and them. I figure that if their entry is a first step to a robbery, it's time to get my boy and head out the side door for cover and to get him (as my first priority) out of harm's way. I also figure that if they are here to "do" the two Latino guys that appear to be avoiding eye contact, I might just have enough time to get my son out the door.

    I was wearing my 1911, and had my BUG w/me (Para Ordnance Warthog in an uncomfortable ankle holster) and I knew that if something was to go down, they'd be in for a big surprise from me if needed. But I knew my 7 year old Cub Scout son was my first priority. So I came up with a suggestion that we head to an arcade (which he gladly accepted) and we bagged our food to eat on the drive there. I figured that once we were outside, out of the immediate line of fire, I can cell phone 911 if needed and stand by to render help if needed.

    Turns out it was NOT needed. They were just hungry and ordered food with no problems. Just the same, I feel I took the right steps: got my loved one away from possible danger without making him scared, put myself in a covered position to call for help and engage if needed but I had to wonder if I was wrongfully typecasting young Latino males. I have mixed feelings about it and wonder what my friends here think about profiling and situational awareness.
     
  2. Remington788

    Remington788 Member

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    I profile people all the time. If a guy is wearing a suit and tie, he is less likely to rob me than a guy wearing gang colors and baggy pants. Besides, profileing is only bad if you are the government and are trying to stop the terrorist from blowing up planes.
     
  3. MAUSER88

    MAUSER88 Member

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    What you did was called "smart". Always know what's around you. I have to be twice as careful in situtations like that because I'm in a state where I can't carry.
     
  4. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Member

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    I got a kid, too.

    You responded to a situation that could have gotten ugly. It didn't, but how were you to know? A room full of business men can go to &*%, too, but it's not as likely. So these fella's ordered food and left. Great, but what if you stuck around because you didn't want to be "insensitive" and something happened and your son got hurt? I'm sure you feel the same way, but I'll take on Hell with a squirt gun for my family. Offending somebody isn't even a concern.
     
  5. trooper

    trooper Member

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    Nothing, really... :)

    Profiling is a valuable tool of my trade. It never ceases to amaze me that American police officers are restricted from exercising their professional experience in fighting crime just because someone might feel offended.


    Regards,

    Trooper
     
  6. Ransom

    Ransom Member

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    Call me crazy but I dont like the idea of the cops stopping me when I've done absolutly nothing to deserve it. It just seems too much like fishing for a bust to me.
     
  7. 1 old 0311

    1 old 0311 member

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    Isn't profiling another word for common sence? I live in a semi rural condo community that has a 100% white population.If I see a "home boy" standing in front of my house at 11:00 p.m. I can assume he is not here to visit his grandmother.Give the Police the tools they need to do their job.

    Kevin
     
  8. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Member

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    Ransom,

    In a way, I agree with you. However, the guys in question here didn;t come in and behave like everyone else. I really don't care what color, nationality, etc., you are. Since you're a regular poster here, it's a safe bet that you are part of mainstream society. Hold down a job, take care of your family if you have one, etc. If you don't dress like a gangbanger, act aggressive, etc., most folks will look right at you and not really see you. If you act like a threat, you will be treated like a threat.
     
  9. trooper

    trooper Member

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    There you go. If I see a car with Eastern European license plates driving around our rural small town at 3 a.m. I'm damn well going to stop it.


    Trooper
     
  10. Norton

    Norton Member

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    Captain Mike,

    What you did wasn't really based on any prejudice....it was based on behavior. If people, whether they be black, white, hispanic or asian, behave in a thuggish or intimidating manner then you have every reason to react to that behavior in a way in which you will best be able to prevent harm from coming to you or yours.

    You did the right thing.
     
  11. Marshall

    Marshall Member

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    It was common sense, good for you, you did well!
     
  12. GT

    GT Member

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    Mike you did the righ thing, I have made similar decisions.

    If you walk, talk, dress and act like a killer you should expect to be treated as a killer.

    And anyway I thought you would get more respect from your peeps if you were stopped by the man.

    Seems to me that this profiling nonsense is part of the whole Urban Get Out of Jail Free Card™.
    Along with "I dint do nuttin", "Police bootality" and "I was jus holding it for a fren".


    G
     
  13. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    Racial profiling= do as I do, act as I do, speak as I do, dress as I do.
    If you do not conform you are automatically labled a threat to me, my family and my way of life even though you may have no intention of ever commiting any form of crime and have no desire to inflict pain, suffering, or death on any living thing.
    You just look, act and talk "funny",,,,,,,,,
     
  14. Ky Larry

    Ky Larry Member

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    On occasion, I've been around people who make the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Something is telling me that something isn't right. When this happens, I get my loved ones and myself out of Dodge City. This isn't profiling, just trusting my instincts.
     
  15. Taurus 66

    Taurus 66 Member

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    and ...

    [ACLU]: "Well that just goes to show how bigoted you are ..... that's all." :rolleyes: [/ACLU]
     
  16. Marshall

    Marshall Member

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    I think you missed the point. No one has suggested you have to look and talk like them. But, if you're dressing like gang bangers, be prepared to be treated like one. You have to take responsibility for your own choices too and yes, your appearance comes into play whether you like it or not.

    Matter of fact, you're expecting too much. You would be asking people to not evoke a protective mindset when in the presence of people that have chosen to appear like potentially harmful people. If I am in a bank and a man comes in with a hanky over half his face, you can bet your ass I'm instantly going to form an opinion based on his chosen appearance.

    Trying to keep folks from using common sense and calling them racist is ridiculous. Don't like it? You have choices.
     
  17. obiwan1

    obiwan1 Member

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    You did the right thing for the right reasons. Remington 788 and Trooper are more right than people (sheeple) will ever know. Listen to your instincts, they're screaming at you! :scrutiny:
     
  18. Mannlicher

    Mannlicher Member

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    Sounds like an overactive imagination to me, but you did have good situational awarness.
    I am always glad when nothing 'went South'.
     
  19. CombatArmsUSAF

    CombatArmsUSAF Member

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    Speaking from family and personal experience
    Large majority of dealings police have in cleveland is with minorities. it's common sense. WHo is more likely to have a criminal intent? The business man driving a 5 series BMW through my city or the Cadillac escalade with 24 inch rims filled with 5 gangbanger look alikes? Like I said COMMON SENSE
     
  20. ezypikns

    ezypikns Member

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    I think he made a good decision....

    but we need to remind ourselves that the person who robs the place and and hurts innocent people just might not be a member of a minority. We all should be alert to all possibilites.
     
  21. nico

    nico Member

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    absolutely. The thing is, a lot of kids (and young adults) dress "like gangbangers" intentionally. They like to intimidate people, even if they're not actually going to do anything, because it makes them feel tough. They LIKE it when people profile them if it instills fear. It's just when it inconveniences them that they complain about it.

    ezypikns, it's not about whether someone is a minority or not, it's about how they act/carry themselves and (less importantly) how they dress. I'm a minority, and I usually wear relatively baggy clothes, and I can guarantee I've never given someone the feeling that Mike had in the situation he described because I don't carry myself or act like I'm looking for trouble.
     
  22. Stauble

    Stauble Member

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    well lets put it thius way
    no little old white lady ever tried to hijack an Airplane
    middle age middle eastern people have

    no little old white lady ever tried too hold up a McDonalds
    young latinos (whites and blacks too) have been known to do that from time to time

    in conclusion i profile all the time
    it may be politically incorrect but i really dont care
     
  23. Mauserguy

    Mauserguy Member

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    "I live in a semi rural condo community that has a 100% white population.If I see a "home boy" standing in front of my house at 11:00 p.m. I can assume he is not here to visit his grandmother.Give the Police the tools they need to do their job."


    Hey, that's me. I left a friend's house the other night about 11:00PM. While driving home I got a call from a lady friend, just back from France. I pulled over to talk on my cell phone; I don't like to talk and drive. While sitting there on the phone, two squad cars pulled up and blocked me in. The cop came over, asked me what I was doing, asked to see my identification, said, "Good night, Sir," and left. They were very professional and courteous.
    Mauserguy
     
  24. ctdonath

    ctdonath Member

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    The problem is drawing a line between "profiling" and "prejudice".
     
  25. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Member

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    Well Said!

    The problem is drawing a line between "profiling" and "prejudice".

    Exactly. Some folks I know shy away from profiling at all, others use it as a cover for their bigotry.
     
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