Old man buys an old gun

[Col. Harrumph]

And has a question. (Internet Expert though I am, I don't know this )

About the .54 caliber U.S. pistols (1836 flint and 1842 percussion)... does anyone know (I mean KNOW) what the service load was?

I'm guessing maybe a .535 ball but maybe smaller, and the charge would be what, 35 grains?

 

[PRD1]

According to a Rifleman article on the Model 1842, the 'regulation' charge was 30 grains. I find that 30-35 grains is a proper charge in my .54 smoothbore pistols. A .530" 0r .535" ball with suitable patch should work well.

PRD1 - mhb - MIke

 

[hawg]

.535 ball with 35 grains of 2F for the 42. I'm pretty sure the 36 would have been the same.

 

[SlowFuse]

From what I've seen the 42's service charge was 35 grains with a 535 ball. These were wrapped like miniature paper musket cartridges.

I shoot a .530 bare ball out of repro 54 cal harpers ferry, 30 grains of 3F is fun, 15 grains is the accuracy load.

 

[Gordon]

If yours is original and not a good repro I'd not go over 25-30 grains if FFF and use the smaller .530 ball with a medium fitting patch well lubed.

 

[hawg]

If yours is original and not a good repro I'd not go over 25-30 grains if FFF and use the smaller .530 ball with a medium fitting patch well lubed.

Why? I use 60 grains of 2F in my 1861 dated Enfield with a 500 grain minie ball.

 

[Gordon]

Why? I use 60 grains of 2F in my 1861 dated Enfield with a 500 grain minie ball.

Enfield rifle or Harper's Ferry PISTOL?

Note I also said 3 FFF as most use that in pistols.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

My service load for my Plains Pistol in .54 is a .530" ball and 70 grains of either 3fg or 2fg. I know, that don't answer the question. The devil made me do it.

 

[Col. Harrumph]

As to 2F or 3F, I suspect that the service load was "musket powder," to avoid the logistic complication of carrying two different powders on the frontier. Units would have been supplied with cartridges, but we know there was bulk powder out there as well. And my guess is, 2F is closer to musket granulation. So start I'll with 30 gr of 2F.

 

[hawg]

Why? I use 60 grains of 2F in my 1861 dated Enfield with a 500 grain minie ball.

oops my bad. I wasn't thinking.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

As to 2F or 3F, I suspect that the service load was "musket powder," to avoid the logistic complication of carrying two different powders on the frontier.

That's an interesting question, or observation. The answer lost in time. But it could be. Or not. We'll never know. Or...?

 

[Zygodactyl]

According to Small Arms and Ammunition in United States Service by Lewis pg 222 and 223. The 1836, the charge was 50 gr. Data was taken from the 1839 MSS Ordnance Man. The 1842 percussion, charge was 30 gr. Data from 1849 Ordnance Man. The bullet for both was .525 from the same source.

 

[Col. Harrumph]

The 1836, the charge was 50 gr. Data was taken from the 1839 MSS Ordnance Man. The 1842 percussion, charge was 30 gr. Data from 1849 Ordnance Man. The bullet for both was .525 from the same source.

Wow, red meat at last! Thank you Z, for the reference. (That book ain't cheap!)
So, the ball is to be .525... I did suspect .535 was too large. But why was the flinter's charge 20 gr larger than the 1842's? Perhaps (I'm spitballing here) it was to account for spillage to be expected from chewing open the cartridge and reloading on a moving horse. Also the pan holds about 6 gr of 2F all by itself, by my measure, and that doesn't account for the spillage there.

 

[Zygodactyl]

On reviewing the chart again, they listed two loads for the 1842. The 30 grain dates from 1849. A 35gr load dates to 1842. The information on the later, Lewis credits Captain Mordecai and his report on musket and rifle charges. The report states that experiments made in Dec 1844 shows that 35 grains was greater than necessary and recommended 30 grains. One chart lists the pistol cartridges loaded with rifle powder instead of musket powder. The 50 grain 1836 charge included 10-12 grains for priming the flint pan.

 

[forward observer]

Wouldn't the M1836 require a few extra grains of powder to prime the pan or did the trooper carry a priming powder flask or horn for that?

 

[Col. Harrumph]

I do not speak from authority here (beloved Internet ExpertTM though I am ), but my bet is he first primed the pan with a bit of powder from a cartridge torn open with his teeth, just as the ground-pounder did his musket; and then poured whatever was left down the muzzle.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I do not speak from authority here (beloved Internet ExpertTM though I am ), but my bet is he first primed the pan with a bit of powder from a cartridge torn open with his teeth, just as the ground-pounder did his musket; and then poured whatever was left down the muzzle.

Yes, don't need to be an authority. !!!! (heck, I'm a legend in my own mind) But, indeed, a cartridge for any flintlock always included the priming charge, as the lock was first primed from the cartridge before ramming the whole mess down the barrel. That's a fact Jack!