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Old Revolvers

Discussion in 'Firearms Research' started by TGator1, Feb 13, 2018.

  1. TGator1

    TGator1 Member

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    I am new to the site so bare with me please in getting everything correct.

    I just inherited the attached revolvers and would like to see if anyone can help to identify them. I have been online trying to but have run into dead end. I am attaching pic of each so maybe that can help. I need mainsprings for both, showing them in pic. Would help if you could tell me where I might find them. I don't intend to fire them but would like to have them working mechanically.

    Revolver 2 - the cylinder is off timing by 1/2 hole, can this be repaired?

    Revolver 1
    Top of barrel has
    - Wm Bishop 170 New Bond St London
    Right side above trigger has - Adams Patent No. 31833 (? guessed)
    5 shot Caliber ?

    Revolver 2
    Top of barrel has
    - no. 450
    Right side above trigger has - 1654 Tranter Patent
    Left side above trigger has - N80Z
    6 shot Caliber ?

    Thank you for any help.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Dr.Rob

    Dr.Rob Moderator Staff Member

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    Wow. All I know about Adams revolvers is Custer carried one. I've heard of Tranter and both are British. Proof marks are important as a 'patent' gun could be Belgian.

    I don't much information in my reference books. This could take a while so if anyone has info please chime in?
     
  3. Dr.Rob

    Dr.Rob Moderator Staff Member

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    Adams should be a .450 boxer cartridge, standard for the British army 1867-1880. The "official" army and navy revolvers were 6 shot unfluted cylinders. But substitutes were common as officers purchased from smaller gunsmiths/shopsand the "Army Navy" stores.*

    *Prior to 1880 there were no "official' officer's pistols, They bought whatever they wanted along with ammunition (you could well understand why you'd want a common caliber The .450 Adams became a standard in 1869). Sergeants and sailors were armed with 'armory' pistols.

    I'd like to see a picture of the right side of each revolver as well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  4. Dr.Rob

    Dr.Rob Moderator Staff Member

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    It appears Wm Bishop was a sales agent for Westly Richards (a colorful character, they called him the Bishop of Bond Street). Westly Richards were still made in Birmingham. Adams revolvers were made at the London Armoury Company.

    Look it over for proofmarks. Bishop was essentially a fancy gun shop, not a maker, he could have put his mark on such a pistol made in England or abroad.
     
  5. Dr.Rob

    Dr.Rob Moderator Staff Member

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    As for Tranter he was a founder of Birmingham Small Arms (BSA) and while producing his own revolvers he also farmed out work to Webley and a few others. Lots of info here:

    http://www.firearmsmuseum.org.au/TranterHistory/wt-hist.htm#Hist

    Ian from Forgotten Weapons notes there was a book on Tranter cartridge guns published in 2007:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...SIN=B000UR8CJE&linkCode=as2&tag=forgoweapo-20

    I suspect No. 450 again refers to .450 Adams caliber.

    and here is your revolver: an 1878 model N80Z means it was accepted for the New Zealand military in 1880

    http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/29040/25294088_2.jpg?v=8D3C39CF8631750

    http://www.icollector.com/Tranter-M...4-mm-octagon-bbl-original-finish-tu_i25294088
     
  6. TGator1

    TGator1 Member

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  7. Dr.Rob

    Dr.Rob Moderator Staff Member

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    I think your Adams is a cartridge conversion from a percussion revolver. There is no loading gate or lever to pop out spent shells, the cylinder pin is removed to take out the cylinder for reloading, The barrel is a replacement, screwed into a percussion frame that has been cut down. Bishop's shop would be well suited to this kind of work. Since it has been re-barreled the caliber is a guess. The sight is remade like the original. The first example I found was a .32. You'd need to slug the barrel.

    Look at the revolver carefully compared to this example you can see how it was cut down and converted.

    http://www.icollector.com/Excellent...Percussion-Revolver-with-Accessories_i9385429

    This is a 45 cal model I found as well:

    http://www.horsesoldier.com/products/firearms/handguns/11340

    Given the amount of pitting on the left side, the missing and replaced parts I'd say that is a wall hanger. You are looking at a revolver That is 150 years old or more and I doubt an original replacement spring is available.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
    NIGHTLORD40K likes this.
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