old stomping grounds.

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If shooting and hunting are high on your priority list, it seems to me that you have to adapt your lifestyle to that. And, you have to do thoughtful and objective research.

Think of how to make a living if wanting to move to a rural or even remote area. Or what sort of work provides the income--and the free time--to partake of lease hunting on ranches or in hunt clubs. Family opinions are part of the deal.

My own memories? I remember when there were maybe a half-dozen houses along the entire length of Longboat Key, Florida (by Sarasota). Go to Google Earth to see what it's like, today. I won't even bother to comment about the demise of farming and ranching in Travis County, Texas (Austin).

My own solution? I voted with my feet and left Austin (and civil engineering) in 1983, jawboned my way into a backhoe and dumptruck and became the sand/gravel guy in Terlingua, Texas. Benchrest on my front porch. Over 40,000 acres of accessible private land to meddle around on. Old age has ended that 30 years of fun, but I've zero complaints. :)
 
Yeah, Art, out there in Terlingua, you got nothing but space. I've been there, my Dad lives in Alpine. Nice area-it a dry heat. ;) Not like the Dallas area, where I live for 2 years.....:eek:
 
It took you 45 years to look at the lots you bought?

Yep, if you've ever been to Birmingham, Ala., you may have figured out why. When I was there, the steel mills were still going and the air was orange when you topped the mountain going in. Now, it is cleaner but with congestion like you wouldn't believe. Crime is rampant too.

The taxes were $26.00/year when I left. They are $130.00 now. not enough to bother with.
I live on 60 acres 500 miles from there and like it MUCH better than B'ham. I'll leave the lots to my kids.
 
If shooting and hunting are high on your priority list, it seems to me that you have to adapt your lifestyle to that. And, you have to do thoughtful and objective research.

Think of how to make a living if wanting to move to a rural or even remote area. Or what sort of work provides the income--and the free time--to partake of lease hunting on ranches or in hunt clubs. Family opinions are part of the deal.

My own memories? I remember when there were maybe a half-dozen houses along the entire length of Longboat Key, Florida (by Sarasota). Go to Google Earth to see what it's like, today. I won't even bother to comment about the demise of farming and ranching in Travis County, Texas (Austin).

My own solution? I voted with my feet and left Austin (and civil engineering) in 1983, jawboned my way into a backhoe and dumptruck and became the sand/gravel guy in Terlingua, Texas. Benchrest on my front porch. Over 40,000 acres of accessible private land to meddle around on. Old age has ended that 30 years of fun, but I've zero complaints. :)
Or do like I did. Load your tools in your truck and move to Alaska. When it comes to hunting there's Alaska and,well, every place else.
 
At lest it has water:neener:

The southern Midwest has been getting plenty of rain the last two years. A smidge under what average is, but compared to the severe droughts we've had the prior 5-10 years it's a welcome relief. The lake I enjoy fishing (Lake Murray in S. Oklahoma) was down nearly 20 feet if I remember correctly. It filled back up last spring in two storms.
 
The southern Midwest has been getting plenty of rain the last two years. A smidge under what average is, but compared to the severe droughts we've had the prior 5-10 years it's a welcome relief. The lake I enjoy fishing (Lake Murray in S. Oklahoma) was down nearly 20 feet if I remember correctly. It filled back up last spring in two storms.
Yeah I've never been to Oklahoma or Texas but from what I read it's feast or famine down there with water.
Interesting story I heard a few months ago from my brothers mother in law. She's 92 and was born in Oklahoma but moved out to New York with her new air force husband when she was in her 20's. So I asked her how she liked Oklahoma when she lived there and she said " ok but I hated those sand storms". I'm thinking what? sand storms? In Oklahoma? Then it hit me she was old enough to remember the dust bowel!!
 
Yeah I've never been to Oklahoma or Texas but from what I read it's feast or famine down there with water.
Interesting story I heard a few months ago from my brothers mother in law. She's 92 and was born in Oklahoma but moved out to New York with her new air force husband when she was in her 20's. So I asked her how she liked Oklahoma when she lived there and she said " ok but I hated those sand storms". I'm thinking what? sand storms? In Oklahoma? Then it hit me she was old enough to remember the dust bowel!!

I don't know about the dust bowel, but I'm sure it probably stunk!
But yes, we actually still get them from time to time. We have a small desert in Oklahoma called Little Sahara and sometimes when it's extra dry a small dust storm will roll through.
 
Back in the 60's I had the run of the local farms. I could walk 100 yards and hunt quail, rabbit and squirrel. Deer were non-existent. If you saw a track you told everyone. They were that rare. I drove by some of my old haunts and it is wall to wall houses and duplex. The Drive-in movie theater where I had worked now has a McDonalds, bank and medical clinic on the property. When I left it was a mile from the city limits. Now it is 2 mile inside the city limits. Luckily I have access to a couple of real nice farms to hunt, but I still think back on the times when I could grab a gun and walk out the back door. I miss it.
 
I grew up in northern New England, so my experience is the opposite. The region has been experiencing a population decline for generations.

Near where I went to school in Southwestern Vermont, there were towns that were fairly well populated in the late 1800s and early 1900s that are now just stone foundations and cemeteries. I also know that Maine is trying to figure out what to do as young people leave the state in droves.

My prediction is that there will continue to be some creeping expansion toward the outskirts of major urban areas, but the overall population trend will continue to be rural to urban. I see huge swaths of empty land between megalopolises.
 
Near where I went to school in Southwestern Vermont, there were towns that were fairly well populated in the late 1800s and early 1900s that are now just stone foundations and cemeteries. I also know that Maine is trying to figure out what to do as young people leave the state in droves.

There will be a population increase on the northern border states as Global Warming increases. Coastal cities will be flooded and temperatures in the South, and desert West, quite miserable as is, will only get worse. I expect the Canadians to build a wall to keep the Americans out, and maybe they will make the US pay for it! There are only 35 million Canadians, there may be more people in the Los Angles area than live in Canada.

I have lots of memories of wooded and isolated areas as a kid, but they are all under concrete now.
 
I grew up in northern New England, so my experience is the opposite. The region has been experiencing a population decline for generations.

Near where I went to school in Southwestern Vermont, there were towns that were fairly well populated in the late 1800s and early 1900s that are now just stone foundations and cemeteries. I also know that Maine is trying to figure out what to do as young people leave the state in droves.

My prediction is that there will continue to be some creeping expansion toward the outskirts of major urban areas, but the overall population trend will continue to be rural to urban. I see huge swaths of empty land between megalopolises.

Well, I live in one of those "huge swaths between megalopolises" and land is outrageously expensive here. Only reason we bought here is we found a HUD foreclosure for a great deal. The population isn't great, but what was once a large ranch is now subdivided into 10-40 acre tracts. Lots of absentee land owners out here that only show up on weekends, holidays, opening day of gun season, and such. It's 2 hours from Houston's west side, close enough for the city rats to scramble to to get away from the rat race. :D I really don't see ANY of the land between San Antonio and Houston becoming an empty swath. It'd be nice, but there's always been small communities here. And, there's enough work locally to keep them here. Lots of good oil patch jobs, a gas plant here and there, and small town shops.

But, I would think the biggest growth would be in the cities. Houston is a case in point, BOOMING with growth. Sometimes I wonder if I didn't locate too close to the mess, but it's not affecting us, yet. We were considering the western hill country, and then there's Art's part of the world out in the big bend country if you're a REAL hearty soul. :D Even there, though, there doesn't seem to be a vacancy of land. It's probably because the Yankees have never quit escaping the draconian states of the north and north east looking for freedom AND a job. :D Maybe they'll start moving to North Dakota...if you believe in global warming, and escape the 180 degree heat I suppose we'll have in a few years if the doomsayers are right. :rolleyes: I'm quite skeptical, though.
 
I have a large parcel of public land that I have hunted for 50 years. Used to be between grouse, woodcock, Spring and Fall Turkey, bow hunting for deer and rifle hunting I'd spend 50 days a year there. Lately it's been one or two days a year. They place has been logged, grown over and logged again in some of the areas I hunt. I have watched mature Oaks and pine taken down only to stumble thru tops, blackberry briars and new pencil poplars for 15-20 years until it once again turns into a woods. Funny how when those areas are at their worst, is when the animals like them the best. Ain't nuttin' gonna stay the same iffin you don't own it and have control over it. Even then, trees grow, die, blow over in storms and patterns change. This year I sat in a fence row during Turkey season on private land where 20 years ago I took several Toms. 15 year ago the farmer got a bug in his butt to clean out his fence rows and it was too wide open to sit n for cover. Once was wide open, the Toms never came off the hill to see what was on the other side. It finally grew up again to the point the old patterns are back. While I didn't shoot a Tom outta that fenceline this year, I had Toms respond and come take a look. Just not a shot I wanted to take with the crossbow. It's once again a great spot to sit and see half the farm at once.

Sometimes the more things change, the more they stay the same. You can never go back.....and it's still as true today as it's ever been. That don't mean the woods can't come back. I bowhunt a old abandoned farm that back when I was a kid, it was a premier dairy operation. Fields and pastures were wide open and the woods was clean because of the cows, pigs and horses pasturing in it. Farmer died and his kin didn't farm. Farmhouse has since fallen into itself and you can't hardly tell where the barn was. Pastures have grown in and are impossible to see thru. The silo's are gone except for their concrete bases, but the old orchard within a rock throw of the old farmhouse is still there and a popular spot for deer to come to. Also a good spot to find Spring Morels. Sometimes when I sit in the orchard waiting for the deer to appear, I think of the ghosts of those that used to live and play there, and pick those apples from the same trees that only the deer, I and a few other folks know are there now.
 
Buck, it's called "succession". When they cut down the climax forest, the invader plants move in. They're good food for the game and good cover vs the forest. All of a sudden, carrying capacity goes up. Eventually, the climax growth trees take over again and carrying capacity drops back to lower levels.

Controlled burns of grasslands actually improves hunting by this same mechanism, bringing back the invaders. Ranchers use controlled burn, too, to improve pasture.

Your post does point out one constant in nature.....CHANGE. :D Most forest land is managed now days. FIRE is a factor in pine forests. Were it not for fire, hardwoods would take over as the climax. Man has moved in to cut the pines for lumber and replaced fire as the renewal factor in a pine forest. So, in a way, it's natural. :D
 
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I don't know about the dust bowel, but I'm sure it probably stunk!
But yes, we actually still get them from time to time. We have a small desert in Oklahoma called Little Sahara and sometimes when it's extra dry a small dust storm will roll through.
Kids today. No I mean the real dust bowl. 1930-1940. See grapes of wrath.
 
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I grew up in northern New England, so my experience is the opposite. The region has been experiencing a population decline for generations.
My father's side of the family comes from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan -- the very upper Upper Peninsula, a.k.a the Keweenaw. Same thing there. It used to be called "The Copper Country," but the mines started closing down in the 1930s, and now that industry is gone. There are former mining towns where only one house in three is occupied and the rest are falling into ruin.

I was born there and have been back a few times. Even though the mines were already mostly gone by the time I was born, the decline hadn't really gone so far. Now it's creepy. I walked around the town where I had lived until the age of eight. The church I was baptized in is boarded up and falling apart. The hardware store is too. There were three gas stations when I was a kid. Now there's one. The town's only restaurant is gone and its only motel has been converted into apartments. The high school has closed down, and my old elementary school has been converted into a museum. Talk about feeling old ...
 
Well, I live in one of those "huge swaths between megalopolises" and land is outrageously expensive here. Only reason we bought here is we found a HUD foreclosure for a great deal. The population isn't great, but what was once a large ranch is now subdivided into 10-40 acre tracts. Lots of absentee land owners out here that only show up on weekends, holidays, opening day of gun season, and such. It's 2 hours from Houston's west side, close enough for the city rats to scramble to to get away from the rat race. :D I really don't see ANY of the land between San Antonio and Houston becoming an empty swath. It'd be nice, but there's always been small communities here. And, there's enough work locally to keep them here. Lots of good oil patch jobs, a gas plant here and there, and small town shops.

But, I would think the biggest growth would be in the cities. Houston is a case in point, BOOMING with growth. Sometimes I wonder if I didn't locate too close to the mess, but it's not affecting us, yet. We were considering the western hill country, and then there's Art's part of the world out in the big bend country if you're a REAL hearty soul. :D Even there, though, there doesn't seem to be a vacancy of land. It's probably because the Yankees have never quit escaping the draconian states of the north and north east looking for freedom AND a job. :D Maybe they'll start moving to North Dakota...if you believe in global warming, and escape the 180 degree heat I suppose we'll have in a few years if the doomsayers are right. :rolleyes: I'm quite skeptical, though.

I should have specified that rural areas will be empty most of the year. That said, it's very possible that the very concept of vacation property might be going the way of the dinosaur, for the working classes, anyway. My generation has a hard time affording a primary home let alone that plus a property you only visit a few times a year. Even those of my generation who inherit vacation property from relatives will probably be forced to sell so we don't have pay taxes and upkeep expenses.

I hope I'm wrong, but I predict the death of the small rural town within the next century. There will be exceptions. Like you said, there will be oil patches and agricultural areas that need some human presence (although as automation continues to advance, the need for human labor in such industries will continue to decline) but these will be more outposts than towns.

I don't want it to be this way. I grew up in small rural towns and that's how I lived until recently. Rural decay makes me sad, but the writing is on the wall. We can't make it here anymore.
 
I should have specified that rural areas will be empty most of the year. That said, it's very possible that the very concept of vacation property might be going the way of the dinosaur, for the working classes, anyway. My generation has a hard time affording a primary home let alone that plus a property you only visit a few times a year. Even those of my generation who inherit vacation property from relatives will probably be forced to sell so we don't have pay taxes and upkeep expenses.

I hope I'm wrong, but I predict the death of the small rural town within the next century. There will be exceptions. Like you said, there will be oil patches and agricultural areas that need some human presence (although as automation continues to advance, the need for human labor in such industries will continue to decline) but these will be more outposts than towns.

I don't want it to be this way. I grew up in small rural towns and that's how I lived until recently. Rural decay makes me sad, but the writing is on the wall. We can't make it here anymore.

I'm not nearly so pessimistic. In the oil patch, rigs don't run themselves. Gaugers have passed to remote data acquisition, but my wife's nephew runs around calibrating the data acquisition. Even THAT doesn't run itself. Tractors may someday drive themselves, but someone has to take the shredder off and attach the bailer. And, tractors don't maintain themselves. Agriculture is a hands on business and I see that remaining so, though there's always improvements in equipment.

Actially, I wish the folks would mass migrate back to the cities. That'd leave US more secluded even than we are. But, I don't see it happening, not in Texas. People have been moving here my entire working life for the jobs, the lack of income taxation, the warmer climate, etc, etc. Actually, it's that way pretty much across the south, migration from the north. Even the gun industry is moving south for the better business and political climate. The north my wither, but I don't see this scenario in the south.

The one thing I can agree with is that less working folks will be able to buy "get away" property. But, I didn't have squat when I was fresh out of college, either. I thought I'd NEVER be able to live as I do now. Some things just take time. I've always lived in small towns aside from 2 years in Corpus Christi. Now, I don't even live close to a small town, well, no closer than 20 miles. :D
 
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I'm not nearly so pessimistic. In the oil patch, rigs don't run themselves. Gaugers have passed to remote data acquisition, but my wife's nephew runs around calibrating the data acquisition. Even THAT doesn't run itself. Tractors may someday drive themselves, but someone has to take the shredder off and attach the bailer. And, tractors don't maintain themselves. Agriculture is a hands on business and I see that remaining so, though there's always improvements in equipment.

Actially, I wish the folks would mass migrate back to the cities. That'd leave US more secluded even than we are. But, I don't see it happening, not in Texas. People have been moving here my entire working life for the jobs, the lack of income taxation, the warmer climate, etc, etc. Actually, it's that way pretty much across the south, migration from the north. Even the gun industry is moving south for the better business and political climate. The north my wither, but I don't see this scenario in the south.

The one thing I can agree with is that less working folks will be able to buy "get away" property. But, I didn't have squat when I was fresh out of college, either. I thought I'd NEVER be able to live as I do now. Some things just take time. I've always lived in small towns aside from 2 years in Corpus Christi. Now, I don't even live close to a small town, well, no closer than 20 miles. :D

That's very possible. I noted when I was growing up that 6 months of winter and 5 months of relentless biting flies is a very effective check on population :D. The one nice month we got was absolutely gorgeous, though.

The deer hunting was garbage, but some years we had such a glut of ruffed grouse that we accidentally got as many with truck windshields as we did with our shotguns. They're not particularly smart birds.

I guess the takeaway is that if you want to be assured lots of space as we careen into the future, go north. With lots of money already saved because there are no jobs up there.
 
One thing I was thinkin' about, Jason, is if you're right and nobody can afford to buy get away properties out here in paradise anymore, the price of property should go down due to lack of demand. That would be a GOOD think IMHO. :D I'd buy more property if I could afford it, but it's 10K an acre around here. In a SANE market, it'd probably be 2K or less an acre. It's pretty worthless for farming, even grazing ain't that great. But, it sure does suit browsers like deer and scrappers like hogs. :D

But, even if that scenario does happen, I'll probably be too old to take advantage of it by then.
 
One thing I was thinkin' about, Jason, is if you're right and nobody can afford to buy get away properties out here in paradise anymore, the price of property should go down due to lack of demand. That would be a GOOD think IMHO. :D I'd buy more property if I could afford it, but it's 10K an acre around here. In a SANE market, it'd probably be 2K or less an acre. It's pretty worthless for farming, even grazing ain't that great. But, it sure does suit browsers like deer and scrappers like hogs. :D

But, even if that scenario does happen, I'll probably be too old to take advantage of it by then.

My completely unsubstantiated theory is that the price spike is the result of another boom caused by the boomers. As more of the Baby Boomers retire (many of whom made more more money than much of my generation could ever dream of) retire and sell or downsize their primary residences, they may be buying more retirement property causing a price spike.

It will be interesting to see what happens to those rural land prices in the next 20-30 years. Also, from what you describe, Texas sounds like an economic universe in and of itself. By comparison, it's not completely unfeasible that one will be able to successfully hunt bear within the city limits of Detroit in the next decade or so.
 
One thing I was thinkin' about, Jason, is if you're right and nobody can afford to buy get away properties out here in paradise anymore, the price of property should go down due to lack of demand. That would be a GOOD think IMHO. :D I'd buy more property if I could afford it, but it's 10K an acre around here. In a SANE market, it'd probably be 2K or less an acre. It's pretty worthless for farming, even grazing ain't that great. But, it sure does suit browsers like deer and scrappers like hogs. :D

But, even if that scenario does happen, I'll probably be too old to take advantage of it by then.

We have 1 acre plots around here in neighborhoods outside of town about 5 miles or so that are going for $55,000 or so. ONE ACRE! It's absolutely insane! Hell, they might not even be a full acre, maybe even half an acre!
 
Buck, it's called "succession". When they cut down the climax forest, the invader plants move in. They're good food for the game and good cover vs the forest. All of a sudden, carrying capacity goes up. Eventually, the climax growth trees take over again and carrying capacity drops back to lower levels.

Controlled burns of grasslands actually improves hunting by this same mechanism, bringing back the invaders. Ranchers use controlled burn, too, to improve pasture.

Your post does point out one constant in nature.....CHANGE. :D Most forest land is managed now days. FIRE is a factor in pine forests. Were it not for fire, hardwoods would take over as the climax. Man has moved in to cut the pines for lumber and replaced fire as the renewal factor in a pine forest. So, in a way, it's natural. :D

I've been a member of the Ruffed Grouse Society for many years, along with a long time member of one of the local Sportsmens clubs. One of our biggest projects every year is the creation or continuation of suitable habitat, so I know a tad about "succession". Very few animals prefer the mature pine stands that loggers and lumber companies love(other than woodpeckers). Most game animals prefer what is considered "fringe" areas....those areas between heavy forests and wide open. One reason there are more whitetail deer now in the U.S. than before the white man came is because there were many mature forests and very few "fringe areas". Clearing land for farmland created fringe areas and new growth as did logging. 100 years ago 90% of the whitetail deer in my state were in the Northern 1/3, because of heavy logging and forest fires. Now, because clear cutting is not as popular as it once was, the majority of good deer hunting has moved to the southern half of the state where agriculture has created the best deer habitat. Back when farmers plowed from fence line to fence line and allowed cattle and hogs to pasture in the woods, not so much. Nowadays, cattle don't pasture in the woods and farmers leave windbreaks, waterways and anti-erosion type filters between fields. The state no longer plants non-native red pines on public land which give little or no cover food. Wetlands are seen to be so beneficial that removing or draining them is now illegal. Many areas that were once void of or had very little wildlife when I was a younger, now are filled with game and non-game species. Problem is now, other than public land is getting access to those areas. While urban sprawl is continuously removing habitat forever, many areas of prime habitat is off limits to the average hunter. This is the greatest change I have seen over years. Many of those areas I hunted and grew to love as a youth, that were open to anyone that asked, are now posted and enjoyed only by a few. When once I could hunt every farm in entire townships, I'm lucky to see my old spots on one.

Local large conservation area where I frequently hunt and trout fish is managed for wildlife and recreation. Cattle and horses are no longer allowed to ruin the creeks and streambank improvements and rebuilding channels has exploded the trout population. Prescribed burns has brought back native plants and wildlife that once were lost or rare. Problem is, because of the lack of access to private land surrounding it, it gets hammered during general hunting seasons. Even tho wildlife thrives and have good numbers there, it's hard for the average and especially new hunters, to be successful. One reason my states new hunter and mentor hunter programs are so successful....because they get to hunt those areas first and without competition. I truly believe hunting will never disappear, nor will wildlife ever be lacking the habitat like it was right before and after WWII. But for the average citizen, access to that habitat for decent hunting, and the privilege of a quality hunt will become too expensive or difficult, and they will drop out.
 
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