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Old Walther semi-auto shotgun?

Discussion in 'Firearms Research' started by firestar, Jun 27, 2003.

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  1. firestar

    firestar member

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    I was at my dealer's house tonight and he showed me a strange shotgun that had me and him stumped.

    It is a Semi-auto 12 ga with a strange charging handle. It is a lever that you turn down to open the bolt.

    It is marked "Walther's Patent" on the side of the receiver. "Germany" on the trigger gaurd. "5661" on the underside of the receiver. "12-65mm = 2 1/2" Spezial Stahl" on the bbl or receiver (I forgot). "Nitro" on the bbl. There is a crown with a "S" under it on the bbl also (proof mark?).

    He mentioned that someone told him that it may be a prototype gun of some sort. It is amazingly light for a 12ga semi-auto also. Looked old.

    So how bout it? Any info on this gun? I have no clue what it is.
     
  2. BADSBSNF81

    BADSBSNF81 Member

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    Out where the buses don't run.
    http://www.carl-walther.de/englisch/forum.html Try posting over there also.

    What I know comes from the book Walther - A German Legend by Manfred Kersten. Sounds like you saw a Toggle-Joint Shotgun. It came in the market in 1921. Walther did not make it, rather they gave it to Deutsche-Werke AG who probably gave it to Ortgies to make. Ortgies was taken over by Deutsche Werke, Erfurt in 1921. The barrel should be 27.6" and is made of Krupp steel.

    The crown over S is a proof mark for smooth bored shotguns.

    Nitro means that it was designed for use with semi-smokeless powder.

    As you noted, it was made to use 65mm (AKA 2 1/2") shells.
     
  3. firestar

    firestar member

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    What company is "Spezial Stahl"? Is it a company or something else? Also, has anyone ever seen one? Are there any pics available?
     
  4. Jagermeister

    Jagermeister Moderator In Memoriam

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    The term "Spezial stahl" is the German word meaing "Special Steel"

    JM
     

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  5. SDC

    SDC Member

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    I've seen something like what you describe that the owner called a "WSF" for "Walther Selbslade Flinte" ("Walther Selfloading/Semiautomatic Shotgun"); if I can find any more info on it, I'll post it for you.
     
  6. firestar

    firestar member

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    SDC,
    That sounds like what I am talking about. I love seening old guns like this that are forgotten. It is not a piece of junk it is a well made semi-auto that is also very light and "lively". I was surprised when I picked it up and it was perfectly balanced. Most semi-autos seem to feel clunky.
     
  7. SDC

    SDC Member

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    Firestar, your shotgun is on pages 215-217 of "Walther, A German Legend", by Manfred Kersten. This shotgun was invented by Carl Walther in 1921, produced by Walther for a while, then turned over to the Deutsche Werke company for further sales. Internally, the shotgun works like an upside-down Luger, with a toggle that "breaks" downwards (the pages covering this shotgun are titled "Die Kniegelink-Flinte" / "the knee-link shotgun"). The magazine is contained wholly in the forearm, the rear of which swings down from the receiver to load, and the factory specs on this shotgun say it should have a 27.5" barrel. Very nice piece, judging from the photos.:)
     
  8. firestar

    firestar member

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    Thanks everyone! Does anyone know approximate value? My dealer wants to sell it but has no clue what to ask.
     
  9. edwardscorp2000

    edwardscorp2000 Member

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    Auto 12 gauge shotgun

    I too have a 12 gauge shotgun that you are describing. I too am trying to find out how much it is worth / the value, and where I can go to find out more information. Thanks,
    Patrick
    patrick@krystal-planet.com
     
  10. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    The Blue Book (25th ed) shows the Walther semi-auto shotgun as made in Zella Mehlis from 1921 to 1931, with a top value of $875, which seems reasonable and would probably be about $1000 today. They are more desireable to Walther collectors than they would be as hunting shotguns.

    Jim
     
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