Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Axis II, May 25, 2016.
Did the OP ever bother to mention after which war the rifle was made?
Vern just reminded me.......
The Aperture sights for the '94 had replaceable apertures of various sizes.
Woods hunters soon found it best to unscrew the replaceable aperture and use the mount itself as a thin ringed large diameter "Ghost Ring Sight" again long before the good Colonel wrote of such.
Yep the '94 was ahead of its times in the 1890's (smokeless powder sporting arm) and in the 1960's ( Ghost ring aperture and "Scout scope") I believe in the early 1970's it's .30-30 cartridge developed originally for it was the first of the .30 cal Sabot rounds using .223 bullets.
Here in the South East they were the most common LEO back up rifle found in patrol cars until the gub-mint started almost giving away M-16A1s in the LEAA programs of the 1990's.
Everybody aught to have one at some point, just so they can say they did.
I haven't a clue. we were working on his truck and he mentioned selling it and I said sell it to me before you do a stanger. he said well the guy at the shop said $600 but I wont make you pay $600. he was rambling about when it was made, and said they are worth money because they were made right after the war. I didn't pay much attention.
The serial number is what it's all about as to getting the year down. I am sure the LGS had things to say but I have not seen the rifle and nobody here has seen the rifle. So I sure can't tell you to pay $600 and it's a good deal. Winchester 94 rifles are not rare, even early manufacture like post WW II and say '64. It's going to come down to if you want a 30-30 and if you want to pop $600 for this rifle? My only lever gun is a 444 Marlin. However, as can be seen by:
There is just a magical lure to lever guns. I have been through several.
I am saying if you want the gun then buy the gun but make sure it is what you want.
I wont pay 600 for it I think 400 would be my max.
You have got to check things out here. Get that serial number and check it for the year. He could have meant that it was made just after the Viet Nam war. Also check for aperture sight mount holes. If it can accept an aperture sight (peep sight) that is all you need for accuracy on a 30-30. I would highly discourage putting a scope on it. Once you get used to an aperture sight you can wow the folks at the range by out shooting scopes at 100 yards.
http://sigtalk.com/guns/32373-lever-guns-anyone.html Here are 4 rifles with SN and date. Some with saddle ring. Makes a difference in value.
An aperture sight will sure help you access what accuracy there is in your rifle. My own 94 improved quite a little bit from "Lord knows if I hit the target" with those folding leaf express sights, to *just* over a minute of angle with a tang sight and globe front sight.
I understand economics, and not paying too much for a product, but sometimes, with some rifles, price really isn't the greatest factor. I've paid what I've thought was too much sometimes, only to sell years later for more than I paid, and I've had tremendous bargains on other firearms only to find nobody wants it, and it won't sell years later. OP, if you want this rife (or is it a carbine... I think Winchester stopped making rifle versions years before), then buy it, shoot it, enjoy it, and be happy.
Life doesn't offer that many opportunities to buy yourself a little happiness.
The top eject Winchester carbines can be scoped with a side mount device but this is less than ideal for sighting. Most hunters choose a good peep sight as made by Williams or Lyman.
Mossberg builds a good 30-30 carbine with side eject and a good tang mounted safety. Its appearance and handling rivals the model 94. My nephew has this Mossberg and has taken several Maryland bucks with it.
I have owned a Winchester .30 WCF Mod 94. Bought it at a surplus store when I was 18 (I'm 73 now). Manufactured in 1948/49. Serial #1608XXX. It is not drilled for tang peep sight.
As far as putting a scope on ANY Mod 94 or any other 30-30 lever, forget it. It's a waste of time and money (unless your eye sight is damned poor). The Iron sights are more then adequate for the range it is best suited for (100-150 yards). As far as accuracy is concerned. Mine still puts 3 holes in the target at 100 yards within 1 5/8" on the bull (170 gr Speer FNSP over 32 gr of W-748).
$600? Not even enough to get me to sell this rifle.
That's amazing to come up with a rock bottom price for a gun that you only know is a 94 that was made after a war. Could be worth from $200 to up in the $$thousands, depending on what it is, and it's history. I had a model 94 in 30-30 made right after a war (Dessert Storm) that brought $150 10 years ago.
Bought an Oct 1964 Saddle Ring carbine for $175 back 15 years ago before Winchester folded. It was not mint and got worse stored in a gun case in the basement.
Original minty guns are rare and hard to keep that way - toting it out into the woods and getting trapped in a downpour is even worse for blued steel and wood guns. The 94 is about the most obtuse design to clean ever, many are never torn down as it takes quite a bit of time, screwdrivers and full instructions to get them apart. Therefore they usually get hosed with a gun scrub cleaner and then over oiled to compensate. Internal rust is typical and getting all the carbon out even more so without the detailed strip. I only use lubes on mine and I'm still getting very old gun oil out of mine with rust streaks.
If you intend to purchase it buy it for the best possible price and then forgo ever taking it hunting on days with any humidity or rain forecast. Still hunting thru the woods on a frosty morning means it will all melt as you work thru the brush and paint the gun with moisture you cannot completely remove from the nooks and crannies. This is why my '94 didn't value highly in the first place - it was a shooter truck gun with rust developing from the first trip out and looked it. Restoring it would be money throw away.
You can't buy a blued steel and wood gun, hunt with it, and expect to keep the pristine condition. They are the epitome of planned obsolescence and cannot withstand the ravages of environmental contamination. They literally rust while you watch - I've seen it carrying mine on a foggy day in cold temps. It's why I don't use anything but military grade firearms for hunting and have done so since the early 70's as they are built and finished to be outdoors extensively in all weather. That way I can be and use them in horrible conditions with no worry about finish. It's why a bought a rusty old '94 - it's getting worse but it was already a given. Traditional guns need near museum quality storage to prevent it.
Buy that gun for even $350 and after a few seasons of use it won't appreciate, if at all, because of it's exposure to the environment. It's either a safe queen or it's going to rust, there is very little middle ground.
I strongly suggest that no matter the year of the rifle, you don't add any holes to it.
I bought a very nice safe queen '94 that was made in 1942. It had never been seen or handled by Bubba. No holes. I simply added a period-correct tang sight, which utilizes the holes that are already there. It can be removed at any time and no one would be the wiser. That's what I suggest.
<edit: I paid $500 for it about year ago and it truly is in stunning condition for a '94>
Hummmm...That is strange Tirod. I've had this mod 94 for 55 years, It's been in all kinds of weather (Oregon and Washington Cascades and The Sierras of California. Not to mention 10 years in SW Missouri). Blizzards, tons of rain and humidity. No rust and the interior is clean. Elk hunts and deer hunts. And it still looks no worst then it did 55 years ago.
It's called proper care and maintenance plus the proper lubricants.
Just the term "safe queen" is discouraging to me. Unless it is a 300 year old unfireable relic, I say use the damn thing. That is what the were made for. A gun is a tool, use it and care for it.
A post-war, pre-1964 Winchester Model 94 in "near mint condition" is easily worth $600. I would buy another one in a heart beat. Make sure it hasn't been refinished and the screws haven't been buggered up.
Last year I bought a post war (Vietnam) Win 94 at a pawn shop. It wasn't tagged, i asked how much, he said "would you give me $250?" I said sure. Then he asked if I'd give $275, I said maybe if he hadn't already said $250.
This is correct. In fact looking at the 2015 Blue Book of gun values, any model 94 carbine produced from 1940 through 1963 in only 95% condition is valued at exactly $600. At 98%, it's $725. However, many rabid collectors only want pre-war models because they believe the quality decline started after the war and not just in 1964 when Winchester was known to have enacted several drastic cost cutting changes in the manufacturing methods used for all of their firearms.
From 1964 and on, the standard carbines drop to $425 and below--mainly due to the public's opinion of those manufacturing changes. I'm only referring to the standard carbine since commemoratives, deluxe models, special calibers and configurations that came later have their own values.
I have never heard anybody the least bit knowledgeable about Winchesters--when referring to a war for the purpose of dating a model 94, mean any other war besides WW II---Not WW I, Korea, Vietnam, etc. There's a simple reason for this.
Winchester was the first American firearms manufacturer to voluntarily cease all commercial production early into WW II in favor of devoting all their resources for the war effort. In addition to over 800k M1 Carbines, Winchester was the only other producer of the M1 Garand, besides Springfield Armory during the war. They also produced huge amounts of ammo.
Thus, the production for the model 94 ceased early in 1942 and did not resume until 1948.
Of the 7 million plus model 94's produced, only 1.2 million were produced prior to the war--with another 1.2 million produced by 1963. The great bulk of production has been since those dates. It really gained popularity with the baby boomers due to the a constant diet of lever action rifles shown on TV and in movie westerns. I believe it still ranks as the best selling commercial sporting/game rifle of all time.
By the way, Miroku is still producing the standard carbine--although it has the angle eject feature along with a tang safety. While it's probably as good or better than anything that ever came out of New Haven, MSRP is a whopping $1,200.
And correct to the last line.
There isn't much more to add to this thread after your post sir.
BTW: I have a very nice Post-War made in 1954.
And there is no way I would sell it, let alone for $600 dollars!!
They don't make stuff that good anymore!!
A minor correction of Forward Observer's post. "1946: Full production resumes on ring-less carbine and limited production on Model 64 rifle." Quoted from American Rifleman December 1993.
R 24. Winchester mod. 1894 SRC ser.#190370. Lever action saddle ring carbine chambered in .30 WCF (.30-30). Made in 1900. 20” barrel has a replacement front sight blade and folding semi-adjustable rear sight. Missing the front barrel band. Tubular magazine and a hammer. Saddle ring intact. Good/very good bore. Excellent action is a bit dry. Receiver has several stress striations. Worn gray/brown metal with blotchy cold blue on the magazine tube. Fair/good plain walnut forearm has a fine crack and scratches from removing the barrel band. Matching straight grip stock has dings, scratches, a crack, and finish wear. Correct, but rusty, carbine style butt plate. (C&R) Sold For: 725.00 http://www.horstauction.com/gunsale15june.html A few for sale every month. The average M94 for a 30-30 is around $400. 32's a little more. Condition means a lot. R 126. Winchester mod. 1894 ser. # 254616. Vintage .38-55 standard lever action rifle made in 1902. 26” round barrel. Original sights. Full length tubular magazine and a hammer. Fair/poor bore has visible rifling. Excellent action. Metal was professionally re-blued years ago but, unfortunately, allowed to acquire more scattered rust. Most of the blue remains. Excellent smooth walnut forearm has several dark stains and no original finish. Excellent matching straight grip stock is in the same condition. Correct, re-blued, crescent metal butt plate. (C&R) Sold For: 575.00
Thanks for the correction. I threw my dates together using the simple serial number PDF file from the Winchester web site for model 94 which indicated that there are no recorded serial numbers for the model from 1942 through 1947.
Winchester serial numbers
However, in looking at the data again, I noticed that 1942 ended with serial number 1,221, 280 and that 1948 starts with 1,500,000 (which was presented to Harry Truman) Since that would leave 279k serial numbers unaccounted for, it makes sense that there was earlier post war production that is not covered by this particular list.
The other info was gleaned from RL Wilson's Winchester book.
I think the older 94s are sort of a classic rifle. I found one in a pawn shop a few years ago, bought it for $200, and I would not tinker with it by trying to add a scope.
I already had Marlin .30-30, and I mentioned to the clerk that for some reason I preferred the Winchester but really couldn't put my finger on why. His answer was classic: "Because John Wayne never said, 'Break out those Marlins, boys.'"
That's pretty much it. Winchesters have the image, but Marlins stand on their own merits.
It all traces back to Oliver Winchester himself; there were a number of lever rifles around back in the day. Colt had the Burgess 1883 which was a toggle-link like the Winchester 1873 but was a more compact version, there was a Kennedy repeater. John Marlin came out with lever actions that were stonger than contemporary Winchesters....but good ol' Ollie; he was a genius at marketing, and aggressive as all get-out. Marlin would come out with a powerful rifle to compete against a Winchester but the Winchester would outsell the Marlin despite the Marlin being technically a better rifle.
It's all in the name. "Name recognition" was as powerful in 1885 as it is now.
Separate names with a comma.