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Older Benelli M1 Super 90

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by akluvr, Dec 16, 2006.

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  1. akluvr

    akluvr Member

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    I just picked up my new Christmas present from my wife. It is a police trade M1 Super 90. I am completely new to the Benelli game and need info. I did a google search and did not find a lot useful. This gun is an older model, with Heckler and Koch (Sterling Va) stamp on the right side of the receiver. It has cruiser rack finish wear on it but is practically new inside. I would like info on disassembly for cleaning and what to look for in normal or abnormal wear. I figured for $499 out the door I could probably do worse on a deal. It has the extended tube and ghost ring sights, so all I figure I need is a Surefire fore end for it and it will be as pimped as I will ever need. Any info on this gun as far as manuals or tips/tricks to keep it running smooth is definately appreciated.
     
  2. akluvr

    akluvr Member

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    I just ran through the Benellli forums and found a posting by "Nimslow" who has a fore end for sale. I tried to register but registration is disabled by the admin. If anyone has access to the Benelli forums and can contact this fella, have him email me at [email protected]. Thanks.
     
  3. mete

    mete Member

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    There should be a manual available fron Benelli. One important point - there are two washers that go with the forend. You MUST put the flat washer against the plastic otherwise you will damage the gun. Disassembly when I'm slow takes about 10 seconds - no excuse for not keeping it clean. Keep all moving parts lightly lubed.If you need more details PM me with questions ,I'll get my manual and detail procedures.
     
  4. The Deer Hunter

    The Deer Hunter Member

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    :confused: :confused:

    Is there something missing on my gun or are the washers just on the older models?

    And when you put the bolt back in it takes a few tries to get the tail thingy in the spring hole.
     
  5. mete

    mete Member

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    They made a design change so the two washers are only in the older models .I guess too many people didn't read the manual !!!
     
  6. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Member

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    Congratulations on acquiring a great shotgun at a great price.

    Here's a link to the M1 manual.

    SureFire makes two weaponlights for the M1 Super 90: here's the link. Although there's a substantial upcharge for the 617FGA, I think that the ability to disable the light is worth the additional cost.

    But I've come up with a kludge to reduce (not eliminate) the chances of accidentally triggering the light on a 617FA. SureFire offers a "Switch Blocker" (part Z10) that is an aluminum channel with an adhesive tape designed to fit over a portion of the momentary contact pad. Get two of them. Fit one at the pad's beginning. Cut the other in half and put it at the pad's end. You should then have about a 1" window for your finger to trigger the light when it's needed, and the window should be positioned so your finger won't touch it accidentally. You can use a Dremel cutoff wheel or a fine hacksaw blade to make the cut. File off any remaining sharp edge. I prefer to use Barge Cement to adhere the "switch blocker" because the sticky tape tends to degrade over time. Barge Cement is permanent or semi-permanent.

    Keep that shotgun well lubricated, especially while you're firing a lot of shells through it. Most gun lubricants are good for the purpose, I think. If you need a suggestion, Breakfree CLP probably will keep it happy. Some people I respect recommend SLIP 2000 gun lubricant. It seems to work too. Remember that the bolt on that gun is steel and the receiver is aluminum, so the idea is to squirt a little lube where they meet in order to keep it wet. I keep a small bottle of lubricant on me whenever I use a Benelli. My Benellis never fail, even in hard driving tactical courses that span several days.

    I hope that some of the above is useful and that there's nothing in it that's too controversial. Ignore anything you don't like.
     
  7. akluvr

    akluvr Member

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    mete & Robert, thanks for the info. I took it out today and ran some different loads through it to see if it liked one better than another as far as feeding. It was surprising. It fed low brass just as efficient as high and at about 15 yards the ghost ring is spot on. I am reading about the barrels with choke tubes (which this one does not have), do they offer a marked improvement? If so, and I was offered this suggestion, is it better to get a new barrel that is tapped for the tubes or (and this is a fellow shooters suggestion that I am a little leary of) can a competent gunsmith tap the barrel? Also, it is taking a little getting used to with the action. I am used to the Remington action, and the Benelli steps are a little disorienting at first. I am seeing a lot of things useful in the action, such as staging a round with the chamber empty etc., etc.. Overall I am really impressed with the gun, the finish is a little rough, but a friend is taking care of that next weekend. Now for the Surefire. I was looking at the lights and saw the switch blocker that you are talking about. I also saw that the blocker is about 10-15 dollars depending on where you shop. I think I like your idea a lot more than spending about 75 dollars for a disconnect switch. Now on to lube. I will be disassembling the girl tomorrow for a better look at the internals. The bolt has me a little leary due to the recoil system. I have some break free so I will use it for the first cleaning but I think I am going to pick up some Slip - folks have been singing its praises around here also. I believe once I have gotten the intrinsics down with the operation, I am going to look for classes to wring the potential out of operator/gun pairing for this particlular shotgun. I am in Central Ohio and will travel within the surrounding states for competent training, so if anyone knows of an instructor that is geared towards this type of training in the area, let me know. Again guys, I appreciate the info- almost forgot, if you get a good line on a Surefire forend (new or used) let me know also. P.S. Robert- the manual rocks!
     
  8. mete

    mete Member

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    That manual is for the later version ,earlier versions like mine have the two washers [I don't know the date of change] .If you need info on the 'washer ' model let me know. In general it's best not to put lights etc on a Benelli as in some guns it causes malfunctions ! You will probably have problems with light loads such as Light Target as they like full loads. I worked on mine so it's much more reliable with lighter loads.
     
  9. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Member

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    akluvr, with all due respect to your friend, I would give up all thoughts of modifying that shotgun in any way to accept interchangeable chokes. It was designed as a shooting system and is essentially correct the way it left the factory. My experience with a few H&K M1 Super 90 shotguns is that they already hold an extremely tight pattern as delivered. My own loaded with 00 buck (every brand I've tried) shoots one hole to 15 yards and only begins to open up at 20 yards.

    You need to get several kinds of 00 buckshot and pattern that shotgun according to Dave McCracken's instructions in the sticky above. My understanding, by the way, is that the Benelli barrels are too thin to be machined as your friend suggests. Best advice: leave the barrel alone.

    Benelli shotguns do have a unique manual of arms and, also, unique capabilities. The H&K M1 Super 90 is a sleek, fast instrument. Most of them I've met do not like being burdened with such things as sidesaddles, for example, or anything else that adds weight to the receiver. The SureFire weapons light is okay and, I think, essential. Other than that there are only three minor modifications I'd entertain. The first is the large bolt handle by Dave's Metal Works, available from Brownells. Here is the link. It simply replaces the original bolt handle. I think it's useful because it allows me to sweep either of my hands quickly across the handle to manipulate the bolt fast. The second is the oversize safety button by Dave's Metal Works, also available from Brownells. Here is the link. I think it's useful because it lets me take the shotgun off safe simply by tightening my trigger finger. It saves a split second, and since my finger is never in the trigger until I'm ready to fire I want to skip the additional step of pausing to offsafe the gun at that point. The third modification is one I haven't yet made: it's an oversize carrier release. I don't want to spend $125 or more for a short piece of aluminum from GGG and I don't trust the $20 short piece of plastic from Arredondo. That little button provided by Benelli to release the carrier is the only gripe I have about this shotgun. My finger finds it all right but I still don't like it.

    One more point. The proper sling for an M1 Super 90 is the webbing 3-point G3 sling by H&K. Your shotgun was made with that sling in mind. That's why your shotgun has the odd mounting point in the stock: the H&K sling's clip fits over it at the rear and the sling's snap hook goes on the mounting point at the front. The odd bit of other hardware is an adjustment buckle. These slings are hard to find but are worth the effort. I don't know if H&K still sells them but they occasionally appear on eBay.

    german_g3_point_sling.jpg
     
  10. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    akluvr


    You can have some “thin” walled choke tubes installed, but as Robert pointed out, the gun will perform as designed as is. Mine has tubes, and I do see a difference with some loads. I can make cheap buck perform either by changing out the factory tube or screwing in my Patternmaster. Right now I use Hornady TAP and the IC tube which is about what your gun should be choked for.

    Mine also runs on low brass cheapie shells down to 1 OZ. The only load I’ve had problems with is the Fiocchi low recoil OO buck, but the FED LR works fine. Didn’t do any modifications to the action to run light loads, just shot the crap out of it.

    I’ve left my M1S90 stock except for Tritium sights, a Streamlight M3X, and a 3 Pt sling/butt cuff from http://www.spectergear.com/shotgun_bsh.htm With the above weight added, I’ve still found my gun to run on light loads. The Tritium sights aren’t needed for HD, my M1S90 doubles as my Beaver/Muskrat control gun. While the little rats tolerate the gun light, the Beavers dive the second it’s turned on.

    Chuck
     
  11. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Member

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    I've heard good things about the PatternMaster, Chuck. Who did the machining for it on your M1 Super 90? And does it withstand shooting slugs?

    Federal LE runs well in mine as does most other low recoil stuff. About the only thing it didn't cycle was Remington's reduced recoil (either the buck or the slugs, I don't recall which) but that was early in the game. I've found that this shotgun gets slicker with experience so it might do well with the Remingtons now. I'll give it a try when I have the time.

    I agree most emphatically about not modifying the shotgun to shoot light loads.

    Tell more about the tritium sights you had installed on yours, please. I'm intrigued by the idea of having a tritium front sight.
     
  12. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    Robert,

    No machining involved, I’ve got the screw in chokes. One advantage of having an SBE for waterfowl is a plethora of aftermarket chokes for my pursuit of the perfect snow goose pattern! The PM works great with larger size shot and buck with a wad column. It's my "go to" choke for spring snows.

    I’ve settled on the TAP which works great with the IC choke, it also allows for slug use. I’ve never tried slugs with the PM, so I’m not sure how it would work. Since the PM uses little “nubs” to retard the wad, I’d surmise they’d drag on a slug.

    Like you I feel the gun smoothes up with shooting. A good indicator is how easy the bolt goes into battery after a couple hundred rounds. It just get’s better with shooting, so I too do not see a reason for modifications. I often wonder about all the Benelli horror stories I read because it’s just not my experience nor the guys that I know that have them. It makes me wonder how the company stays in business with all the reliability issues. :D I’ve found one reduced recoil load my gun doesn’t like. So guess what, I stopped buying it. :eek:

    My Benelli NSs are made by Meprolight and I got them on-line for about $70 a couple years ago. They work well, very bright front sight, with a dim 2 dot rear, so it’s a good sight picture. After shooting the gun for two years in its present setup, I think that the NS have limited value for HD because the weapon light negates their benefit. Without worrying about target ID, I can hit with slugs at night just about as well as day time, as long as I can see the target. So for low light use, they do work pretty well.

    Chuck
     
  13. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Member

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    Chuck, I'm mightily confused. The H&K Benelli M1 Super 90 I own and the others I've seen have rifle sights that are soldered to the barrel and they don't accept screw-in chokes. They look like these:

    [​IMG]

    How did you get the Meprolight night sights onto either of them? Be gentle with me.
     
  14. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    Robert,

    Now I see the problem! We're doing the apples and oranges thing. I have the M1S90 with the ghost ring sights.

    On mine the rear apperature and the front post simple unscrew and can be swapped out.

    Sorry about that!

    Chuck
     
  15. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Member

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    Whew! I thought I was having an out-of-shotgun experience for a moment. :) Thank you, Chuck.
     
  16. akluvr

    akluvr Member

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    Wow, lots of info to digest here. I am in the belief that I am going to keep the barrel choke free. So far I have not patterned on paper but it will happen after the holidays are over and I have a Saturday to myself. I am intrigued by a lot of the suggestions here with minor mods and will probably try them. The sidesaddle thing was tempting but with the aluminum receiver, I think I will try an alternate means of ammo transport. I am going to have fun scouring gun shows for a sling and will probably break down and look on ebay. The tritium sights are another thought, this one has the ghost rings so it will work out. Who is the best to deal with for sights? I have tried to find the TAP ammo around the area but it must be pretty popular - always sold out. I did notice that recoil was pretty stout on high brass #6 Federal. About as stout as slugs. Which leads me to my next noob question. The barrel is marked 12ga magnum. Does this indicate that it is chambered for the 3"?
     
  17. mete

    mete Member

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    Yes the 12 GA Magnum is 3". BTW after receiving a number of snide remarks about 'what is that some kind of riot gun ?' [It was one of the very first black plastic stocks] at the SC range ,I carved figures into the stock. Squirrel and duck etc now let me proudly carry the Benelli amongst the fancy O/Us !!
     
  18. hockeybum

    hockeybum Member

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    manual? who sai anything about a manua;?

    "manuals are for sissy's" until your gun breaks and you can't figure out whats wrong... aftee 10 hours of tinkering, you find you forgot to close the action...." :evil:
     
  19. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Member

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    Wise decision not to modify the barrel on that shotgun, akluvr. Chuck R. is the man to advise about tritium sights for it. As for sources, I prefer Brownells whenever possible because of their excellent customer service policies: even if you try the sights on your shotgun you can return them for a full refund for any reason or none at all. Brownells is perhaps the most customer oriented business I've ever encountered.

    I can't make up my mind about sidesaddles or even about the general subject of carrying additional ammunition on the shotgun itself. I have sidesaddles for each of my 11-87s, but sometimes I put them on and sometimes I take them off--and I always have good reasons for both decisions. Of course it's good to have six additional rounds where they're needed, and it's especially good if those six rounds are slugs if the shotgun is loaded with 00 buck. But they do change the balance of the shotgun significantly and make it less maneuverable. Again, a shotgun for this purpose should be fast, sleek, and easily maneuvered: that's critical, and it's what the Benelli M1 Super 90 is best at.

    I absolutely do not like those elastic cloth sleeves that carry extra shells. They're clumsy, they get in my way, and they inevitably tend to shift or lose their elasticity. And they put the spare shells in the wrong place. As for slings with integral shotshell holders, my own opinion is that there are much more enjoyable ways to commit suicide than having a bunch of shells swinging around to deflect my aim. A high quality bandoleer works, but--again--the shell holders are elastic and that's not good. I've also had bandoleers that popped their stitching and dropped some of the shells.

    With a two-round extended magazine tube (as shown in the photo I posted)the Benelli's capacity is reasonable for home defense situations. In the event of a home invasion you should not be roaming around the house hunting the invaders. You should be in a safe room discouraging them from getting at you. So there should be no need to carry a portable supply of additional ammunition and you should have a stock of ammunition for reloads that might be needed. But since nothing ever goes the way it should, I hedge my bets by keeping the spare ammunition in a military surplus bag that's easily moved around the safe room and just as easily discarded.

    At this point I'd like to make a comment that's perhaps irrelevant to this discussion, but perhaps not, and in either case I'll make here because so far I haven't found a better place to make it. Some people attempt to distinguish between firearms for "sporting purposes" and those for other purposes. Those people--often legislators and government officials--try to direct the discussion in ways that allow them to see the "sporting" firearm as somehow more legitimate than other kinds. That thinking is bizarre, even if sometimes I think that the people who engage in it might have good motives. But they don't know what they're talking about.

    Your Benelli illustrates what I mean. It obviously was not designed to shoot trap or skeet or hunt animals. Even so, you might want to try it for those purposes. I'm not a hunter but I have had great fun shooting trap and skeet with the Benelli M1 Super 90. (Mete does too, I gather.) And, frankly, it's even more fun than doing it with shotguns designed for those sports. It's shortsighted to define firearms according to the purposes for which they were designed, just as it was shortsighted years ago for people to argue that stock automobiles should not be raced because they were not designed as racing cars--or that computers were the province of businesspeople and scientists only, and that individuals had no legitimate reason to own them.

    More to the point I'm trying to make, use your Benelli to compete with yourself in tactical situations that you can set up for yourself on an appropriate range. For example, try shooting balloons with slugs at 15, 20, and 25 yards on a windy day as they dangle from long strings and blow around at random. Then try doing it while moving. Then see how you do at it while a partner shouts rapid instructions to direct your movements: "in," "out," "right," and "left." And then do it beyond the capacity of your shotgun's magazine: do it for, say, fifteen shots so you're faced with the need to reload rapidly. That, for me, is an ultimate form of sport and the Benelli M1 Super 90 is the ideal instrument for it.
     
  20. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    akluvr


    Funny, but I agree with Robert most of the time. If Brownell’s carries it, get it from them. Great company, outstanding service.

    I’ve got 13 other shotguns for games and hunting, so my M1S90 is strictly for HD and occasional games. As mine is set up, it does work well on turkeys, would work well on deer in a shotgun only areas, and of course *&^^* beavers and muskrats. It excels at beaver and muskrat control, the only thing I’ve found deadlier is a backhoe, and that caused a lot of collateral damage. Compared to that, the Benelli is a precision strike capability:D

    Mine is pretty much stock as I described it, except for the sights, and I have the 4 shot “questionably legal extension” on it for a total of 8 rounds. It also has the M3X tactical light. I like the M3X because it’s easily removed and can be mounted on different guns if need be. For HD distances it’s plenty bright at 65 lumens. Narrow the beam, and the pattern is pretty much centered in the light.

    I’ve got a 3 pt sling and a buttstock ammo holder (NOT THE CHEAPO ELASTIC DEAL they will drive you insane) that I install for range use and hunting ^%& beavers and muskrats. When sitting in my V-Line long gun vault for HD, I keep it loaded with 6 in the tube, and one on the carrier, no sling, no extra ammo. As Robert pointed out, the gun is light and quick without the extra “stuff” on it. When I reload from the buttstock ammo carrier, I use strong hand and load the shells upside-down in the carrier. My support hand keeps the gun on the target.

    The smartest thing you can do with your gun is practice with it. I’d shoot it a bunch before I made a single modification. Ok, maybe one modification, and that would be a light, I’m a big fan of weapon mounted lights. You need to be able to see to hit, and identify before you shoot. That’s why if I had to choose I’d take a light over night sights.

    I’m kind of lucky in that I own my own range and have bought a few armor plate IDPA targets. So after running a few COFs with my 1911, I break out my Benelli and go to town. Hitting a standard size silhouette at 100 yards with slugs and the ghost rings is no problem and headshots at 30 meters are a breeze. I guess an added benefit is the land I bought to build a range on came with a 9 acre pond, unfortunately the pond came with the %%$^^ beavers and muskrats. So I get to practice on them too. :D

    Chuck
     
  21. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Member

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    Which buttstock holder do you use, Chuck? I'd like to look.

    Agreed on the brass down placement of the shells. I hold on target with my strong hand, pluck the shell from the sidesaddle with my weak hand, and sweep under the gun to stuff the shell into the ejection port and release the carrier.

    Agreed also on the necessity of a good tactical light and on the need for frequent practice. Sometimes, I confess, I almost regret getting the M1 Super 90 because it leaves my other shotguns behind for the purpose, and because it's really great fun to drive this sleek racing car as fast as I can whenever I can. Then I bring myself back to reality. I like this shotgun. :)
     
  22. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    [​IMG]

    Robert,

    Pictured above:

    http://www.spectergear.com/shotgun_bsh.htm

    It’s got the elastic webbing for the shell loops, but it’s some SERIOUS elastic! The off side has an attachment point for a sling, so it’s faster than installing a “normal” sling in the butt loop.

    It doesn’t slide forward and stays in position, unlike the elastic versions. It is slower than a sidesaddle, but I really don't like sidesaddles.

    My "plan" is to never shoot my Benelli dry, so I don't have to do the over the top, or under, feed through the port drill. Cept for slug transitions:D

    I figure if the need arises, it's a short move back to the grip since my strong hand is between the port and the stock anyway. Not as "tactical" as a support hand feed, but it's the same basic procedure I used in CAS with my 97, so I'm pretty quick at it.

    I tried learning to off hand feed using the cuff, but it wasn't a pretty sight.

    Chuck
     
  23. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Member

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    I think I saw it on a web site sometime back and gave it a pass because it covered the sling attachment point. Still, it's good to know. I'm comfortable with the H&K sling and wouldn't think of giving it up. In fact I've adapted most of my "tactical" shotguns to accept it.

    Your photo shows the shells brass up in the buttstock holder. Did I misread your earlier message or doesn't the manufacturer's photo reflect your own practice? By the way, this is my month to like sidesaddles. Last month I would have agreed with you and I might agree with you next month or the one after that. I wish I could make up my mind about them.

    My own carefully conceived plan is to not have to use the shotgun for defensive purposes. If I must, though, I also plan not to shoot it dry. One of the Benelli's many advantages is that if everyone else cooperates it might be possible to follow my plan, because the Benelli is ideally suited for a "shoot one, load one" approach to life's meaning. I probably could keep tossing shells into the ejection port and shooting them without tapping those in the magazine tube until my arm fell off or I exhausted the world's supply of ammunition. It works for me. I'm sure that your procedure works well for you. You've thought carefully and, obviously, well about what you're doing.

    I think I'll look around the Spectre Gear web site again. That buttstock holder does look more substantial than others I've seen. Thanks.
     
  24. flip180

    flip180 Member

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    This thread is killing me!

    I've been eyeballing a NIB M1S90 few the past few months at a local gun store. It has the pistol grip stock, five round magazine, ghost ring sights and 18 in barrel with interchangable choke tubes. They came down to 850.00+tax for the gun. I just about forgot about it until a couple of weekends ago at the advanced defensive pistol class as www.tacproshootingcenter.com where the instuctor pulled out an M4 to let us try out for the heck of it. He even let me take it through the jungle run. When I got back, there I was back in the gun store again looking at the M1S90. I really want this gun bad but, buying it means that I'll not be buy ammo for my Stag AR for a few more months to come.

    Flip.
     
  25. akluvr

    akluvr Member

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    For the time being, I am going to run the gun nekkid. No other mods or anything. I want to used to the basic gun and then build from there. I definately have a lot to consider. The sling will be a definate. The light will be a definate. And in my preparation for Mr. Murphy, the night sights will be there too. Redundant? Yep. But as my luck will have it, all the times I have been playing with my tacticool light will wear down my batteries to the point I will have about three seconds of available light. I really like the buttstock ammo carrier, but I'll see what fits. After the limited use I have with the gun, I agree that it is a sleek creature that deserves the admiration that I am reading here. I might even take this doll out on the coyote trail with me. We have what you might call a "situation" in my area, farmers losing calves, extremely limited fox and rabbit populations, etc. (no beaver problems here, so I won't have to get the backhoe yet- I don't even want to ask about collateral damage). No one in this area is really hunting the dogs so the first couple of months will be pretty decent. But paper will be the first victim so I can tell what it likes to eat and what it doesn't. I may eventually try some combat type shoots once I get comfortable with the operation. Keep any and all replies coming, I am learning a ton here. Edit to mention to Flip- go for it. I got lucky and found a police trade at a decent price, but the more I handle the gun, it would have been a good deal at full price. I truly love the gun, once they handled the one I picked up, my friends are all trying to figure out how to push funds to go pick up one of the remaining ones.
     
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