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Older S&W 38 US Service CTG'S

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by Big Daddy K, Apr 6, 2007.

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  1. Big Daddy K

    Big Daddy K Member

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    Serial # 349##.

    Is there any way to find out year made, model, etc.

    Also have a 38 S&W. Looks like a 38 short. Cool wheel guns to plink around with though.:D
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2007
  2. QuarterBoreGunner

    QuarterBoreGunner Member

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    oops. dbl post.
     
  3. QuarterBoreGunner

    QuarterBoreGunner Member

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    I'm in the middle of moving or I'd check the The Book for you; it's all packed away right now. A description would help.
     
  4. Big Daddy K

    Big Daddy K Member

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    38

    Man that was fast. I think I like it here already.

    Anyway it is nickle plated 6 shot 38spl. Looks like about a 4" barrell with fixed sights. Black grips with the S&W emblem on the side. Came with a clip on belt holster with green cloth material on the inside.
    Just a basic looking old police type revolver.
     
  5. QuarterBoreGunner

    QuarterBoreGunner Member

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    What and where are the markings on it?
     
  6. Big Daddy K

    Big Daddy K Member

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    38

    SN on the butt.
    S&W logo on right side.
    S&W logo on both sides of grips.
    Barrell markings are on the left side. 38 S&W Special
    U.S. Service CTG'S

    Right side of Barrell Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass USA
     
  7. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Ya' doing good, Big Daddy... :cool:

    Now tell us what the serial number on the butt is (use xx for the last two numbers) and we'll tell you a whole lot about your revolver.

    Oh wait, I just spotted it. No. 34962.

    You have a Smith & Wesson .38 Hand Ejector, Model of 1902, 1st chg.

    Your revolver was made in 1902, and that makes it over 100 years old. :what: So be careful what you use to go plinking with. These were 6-shot, K-frame revolvers made to use either the then new .38 Special cartridge, or the .38 Long Colt cartridge then used in U.S. military service sidearms. They do not use the shorter .38 S&W round. At the time both the .38 Special and Long Colt were loaded with black powder, and the cylinders were not heat-treated. Standard barrel lengths were 4, 5 and 6 1/2 inches. They came either blued or nickel plated. The stocks are made out of black hard-rubber, and they crack and chip easily - so be careful of them.
     
  8. Big Daddy K

    Big Daddy K Member

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    38

    Thanks. I figured it was from the 50s but 02. Man that is old. Pretty cool.
    I've only shot 158 lead. No +p etc. It's not a CCW just a fun gun to shoot.

    I went to get some cowboys the other day at Gander. Man those things are $27.00 a box. Thats nuts:cuss:

    Is it of any value other than to me as a cool old gun?
     
  9. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    The value depends on the condition, and to answer that question I'd have too know more.

    How much of the original finish does it have?

    What is the internal condition of the bore & chambers?

    How much, if any of the case-color on the hammer and trigger is left?

    Are the stocks intact, without cracks or chips?

    Posting a picture would help.

    If you are really interested in the gun's background, send a description of the revolver with the serial number, a snapshot of it to help in identification, and a $30.00 check made out to Smith & Wesson. Roy Jinks, the company's historian will go through the old records until he finds your gun. He will then send you an official letter describing the model's history, and then the exact details on your gun - including the day it was shipped and to what dealer or destributor. See additional details on www.smith-wesson.com
     
  10. FuzzyDice

    FuzzyDice Member

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    Hey Old Fluff,I have one of these with only one S&W logo on the right side with serial # 726XX.Would you know anything about it Year,etc.?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  11. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    A more complete description would help, but I'll take a shot at it.

    If this is a 6-shot, .38 Special, Smith & Wesson with a barrel length of 4, 5 or 6 1/2 inches (measured from the front cylinder face to the muzzle end of the barrel, I suspect that you have a 1905 Hand Ejector (Military & Police) 3rd. model. Square butt versions usually had checkered walnut stocks, while the round butt style had black hard-rubber grips. In both cases pearl or ivory were optional. Blue or nickel plated finishes were standard.

    The 3rd. model series were made from 1905 through 1906, in a serial number range running from 62,450 to 73,250. Your serial number (72,6xx) would be toward the end of the run.

    Should you decide to shoot it...

    When you're buying ammunition, keep in mind that it's just over 100 years old - and when carrying it rest the hammer on an empty chamber.
     
  12. RSVP2RIP

    RSVP2RIP Member

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    Anyone know when they did start heat treating the cylinders?
     
  13. FuzzyDice

    FuzzyDice Member

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    Thanks Old Fluff. Your help is greatly appreciated.It was my grandfather's gun handed down to my father and became mine after he died.It is a six shot,four inch barrel in nickel plate.I don't think the grips are original as they are just plain smooth wood.It is a round butt.It looks to be in very good condition with a small amount of finish wear.What ammo would be correct for this particular year .38 special?
     
  14. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    RSVP2RIP:

    I'm supposed to know everything????? :neener:

    It depends on the model, and some weren't heat treated at all before they were discontinued.

    But so far as the 1905 H.E. .38 (Miilitary & Police) model's concerned, they started around serial number 316,648 in or about 1919, and in .32-20 around serial number 81,287 the same year.

    Now ya' know... Welcome to the High Road. ;)

    Do not take this information to mean you can start using Plus-P ammunition in pre-World War Two revolvers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2007
  15. ARTiger

    ARTiger Member

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    Of course you are! :D
     
  16. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    FuzzyDice:

    Since this is a passed-down-through-the-family revolver you might want to consider doing the following:

    So far as ammunition is concerned, stick to standard non-plus-p cartridges with lead bullets. So-called "cowboy loads" have reduced powder charges. See www.black-hills.com for a source. Also have the gun checked over to sure it doesn't have any age-related defects.
     
  17. 4fingermick

    4fingermick Member

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    I don't know if you guys cast, but we are getting together a custom mould replicating the classic bullet for this cartridge. It will be a Lee 6 cavity group buy here:

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=15478

    Please PM me if you join this group buy as I'm curious to know if anybody ever follows up these leads I sometimes give.
     
  18. palmtech

    palmtech Member

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    S&W 38 US Service model

    Can anyone help me identify this S&W 38 cal. Hand gun.
    I recently picked it up at a pawn shop, and it is in real nice condition, good bluing, only has holster wear at the barrel and light on the cylinder, 4" barrel, wooden grips in great shape, with a diamond pattern with the screw hole in the center of the diamond pattern, it has "38 S&W. Special U.S. Service CTG'S on the left side of the barrel, and the serial # 662xxx on the bottom of the hand grip (metal) the serial on the cylinder is the same # 662xxx
    it has what looks like rear adjustable sights, and on the top of the barrel is: "Smith&Wesson Springfield Mass USA , PAT'D "MARCH,27 94", "MAY 21 95", "AUG 4, 96", "DEC 22, 96", "OCT 8, O1", "DEC 17, 01", "FEB 6, 06"
    I hope that someone can identifiy the year, and value?
    many thanks in advance...
     
  19. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Palmtech:

    Check the serial number again and be sure it isn't 66,2XX rather then 662,xxx. As it stands the serial number is way too high (middle-latter 1930's) for the barrel markings you detailed. The U.S. Service CTG marking was discontinued around 1910, give or take a few years. Factory adjustable sights on a 4" barreled revolver would be a special-order item, and possibly explain the use of an older barrel if this was the case. If it does have factory adjustable sights the front sight blade should be pinned into the base on the barrel. Do the stocks have a gold-colored or nickel plated S&W trademark at the top, or nothing like this at all?
     
  20. palmtech

    palmtech Member

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    S&W 38 US Service model

    Ok, I checked it again, and I must have been tired last last when I read it. I was either reading it upside down, the serial # 1393xx, or it is 6626xx?
    front blade pinned sight, but the sight does not look like the pictures of other ctg's I have seen, flat on the rear side, rounded toward the front of the barrel, It looks like the .32 cal target sight but on a 38?. the rear sight is adjustable, as for the wood, it does not have any s&w logs, this has a 4 screw side plate, and a front screw on the trigger guard, there is not a s&w logo beneath the cylinder release, only on the 4 screw side. thanks for your help
     
  21. palmtech

    palmtech Member

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    very interesting S&W information

    S&W revolver names before World War II
    Name Caliber Frame
    .22 Hand Ejector Ladysmith 22 Long M
    .22/32 Target 22 Long Rifle I
    .22 Outdoorsman 22 Long Rifle K
    .32 Hand Ejector (round Butt) 32 S&W Long I
    .32 Regulation Police (Square Butt) 32 S&W Long I
    .32-20 Hand Ejector 32-20 Win. K
    .38 Military&Police 38 Spl K
    .38 Hand Ejector (same as above, with
    adjustable sights)
    .38 Regulation Police (Square Butt) 38 S&W I
    .38 Terrier 2" Round Butt 38 S&W I
    .38/44 Heavy Duty (fixed sights) 38 Spl N
    .38/44 Outdoorsman (Adj. Sights) 38 Spl N
    .357 Magnum 357 Mag N
    .44 HAnd Ejector Military Model 44 Spl N
    .44 Hand ejector Model 1926 44 Spl N
    (shrouded extractor rod)
    .45 U.S. Army Revolver, Model 1917 45 ACP N
    .455 Hand ejector British Service 455 Mark II N

    Letter designations assigned S&W Revolvers 1900-1930
    32 Double Action R
    32 Safety Hammerless G
    38 Single Action S
    38 Double Action D
    38 Safety Hammerless Y
    44 Double Action L
    22 Hand Ejector M
    32 Hand ejector I
    38 Military and Police K
    44 Hand Ejector N
    38 Double Action Perfect P
    22 Perfect Single Shot T
    35 Automatic A
    32 Regulation Police B
    38 Regulation Police E
    22/32 Heavy Frame Target V

    Factory Model/caliber designation begun in 1930s
    22/32 Tarket IT22 Square Butt
    22/32 Kit Gun IT22 Round Butt
    K-22 Masterpiece KT22
    32 Hand Ejector I32 Round Butt
    32 Regulation Police I32 Square Butt
    K-32 Masterpiece KT32
    38 Regulation Police I38 Square Butt
    38 S&W Terrier I32 Round Butt
    38 Military & Police K38
    38/44 Heavy Duty N38
    K-38 Masterpiece KT38
    38/44 Outdoorsman NT38
    357 Magnum NT357
    1926 Model 44 Military N44
    1926 Model 44 Target NT44
    1917 Army N45



    S&W Model Listing
    Model year year Frame Caliber Name
    intro Discon Size
    10 1899 K 38 Spl Military & Police
    10 HB 1960 K 38 Spl Military & Police Heavy Barrel
    11 1936 1965 K 38 S&W Military & Police
    12 1953 1986 KA 38 Spl Military & Police Airweight
    13 1974 K 357 Mag 357 Magnum M&P
    14 1947 1982 KT 38 Spl K-38 Masterpiece
    15 1949 KT 38 Spl K-38 Combat Masterpiece
    16 1947 1973 KT 32 S&W Long K-32 Masterpiece
    17 1946 KT 22 LR K-22 Masterpiece
    18 1949 1986 KT 22 LR K-22 Combat Masterpiece
    19 1955 KT 357 Mag 357 Combat Magnum
    20 1930 1966 N 38 Spl 38/44 Heavy Duty
    21 1908 1966 N 44 Spl 1950 Model 44 Military
    22 1917 1966 N 45 ACP 1950 Model 45 Army
    23 1931 1966 NT 38 Spl 38/44 Outdoorsman
    24 1908 1966 NT 44 Spl 1950 Model 44 Target
    24 1984 1984 NT 44 Spl 7500 units reintroduced
    25 1955 1983 NT 45 ACP 1955 Model 45 Target
    25-3 1977 1977 NT 45 Colt 125th Commemorative
    25-4 1977 1977 NT 45 Colt 125th Delux Comm
    25-5 1978 NT 45 Colt 45 Colt
    26 1950 1966 NT 45 ACP 1950 45 Target Light Barrel
    27 1935 NT 357 Mag 357 Magnum
    28 1954 1986 NT 357 Mag 357 Highway Patrolman
    29 1955 NT 44 Mag 44 Magnum
    30 1896 1976 I&J 32 S&W Long 32 Hand Ejector
    31 1917 I&J 32 S&W Long 32 Regulation Police
    32 1936 1974 I&J 38 S&W 38 Terrier
    33 1917 1974 I&J 38 S&W 38 Regulation Police
    34 1936 I&J 22 LR 22/32 Kit Gun 4" barrel
    35 1911 1973 I&J 22 LR 22/32 Target 6" Barrel
    36 1950 J 38 Spl 38 Chief Special
    37 1952 JA 38 Spl 38 Chief Special Airweight
    38 1955 JAC 38 Spl Bodyguard
    39 1954 1981 Auto 9mm 9mm Double Action
    both alloy and steel
    39-1 1960 1960 Auto 38 AMU Commonly called M-52A
    alloy
    40 1952 1974 JS 38 Spl Centennial
    41 1952 Auto 22 LR 22 Semi-Automatic
    41-1 1960 1972 Auto 22 short 22 Short Semi-Auto
    42 1953 1974 JAT 38 Spl Centennial Airweight
    43 1954 1974 JAT 22 LR 22/32 Kit Gun Airweight
    44 1954 1959 Auto 9mm 9mm Semi, Single Action
    alloy
    45 1936 1965 K 22 LR 22 Military & Police
    46 1959 1968 Auto 22 LR 22 Semi Auto
    47 Experimental number used on several guns
    48 1959 1986 KTM 22 WMRF K-22 Masterpiece MRF
    49 1959 JC 38 Spl Bodyguard Steel Frame
    50 1955 1975 JT 38 Spl 38 Chief Special Target
    51 1960 1974 JTM 22 WMRF 22/32 MRF Kit Gun
    52 1961 Auto 38 Spl 38 Chief Special Target
    Steel
    52-A See Model 39-1
    53 1961 1974 KTC 22 Jet 22 center fire magnum
    54 Experimental never issued
    55 Experimental never issued
    56 1962 1963 KT 38 Spl KTX 38 Became Mod 15 2" bl.
    57 1964 NT 41 Mag 41 Magnum
    58 1964 1978 N 41 Mag 41 Magnum Military& Police
    59 1971 1981 Auto 9mm 14 shot 9mm Semi-Auto
    Alloy
    60 1965 J 38 Spl 38 Chief Special Stainless
    61 1970 1973 Auto 22 LR 22 Escort
    62 Experimental never issued
    63 1977 JT 22 LR 1977 22/32 Kit Gun Stainless
    64 1970 K 38 Spl 38 Military&Police Stainless
    65 1974 K 357 Mag 357 Mag M&P Stainless
    66 1971 KT 357 Mag 357 Combat Mag Stainless
    67 1972 KT 38 Spl 38 Combat Masterpiece Stainless
    68 1976 1976 KT 38 Spl California Highway Patrol
    Model Stainless
    69/75 Not officially assigned -- used experimentally
    76 1968 1974 Auto 9mm Machine Pistol
    77 1970 1978 22 cal Air rifle
    78 1971 1978 22 Cal CO2 Pellet Pistol
    79 1971 1978 177 Cal CO2 Pellet Pistol
    80 1975 1978 177 BB CO2 Semi Auto Rifle



    New Model Numbering System
    --------------------------
    147-A 1979 1979 9mm 14 shot DA steel frame Model 59
    325PD 2003 N 6 shot 45 ACP, 2.5" barrel, Scandium Frame
    329PD 2003 N 6 shot 44 Magnum, Scandium Frame, Stainless Brl, Ti Cylinder
    340 J 5 shot 357 Magnum, Scandium Frame, shrouded/internal hammer
    396 L 5 shot 44 Special, 3-1/8" barrel, Aluminum alloy frame
    439 1979 9mm 8 shot DA Semi Auto Alloy
    459 1979 9mm 14 shot DA Semi Auto Alloy
    469 1983 9mm 12 Shot DA Semi Auto Alloy
    500 2003 X 5 shot 500 S&W Magnum
    520 1980 1980 N 357 Mag, Fixed Sights
    539 1980 1983 9mm 8 shot DA semi auto Carbon Steel
    547 1980 1985 K Steel 9mm Military & Police
    559 1980 1983 Auto 9mm 14 shot DA Semi Auto Carbon Steel
    581 1980 L 357 Mag Distinguished Service Magnum
    586 1980 L 357 Mag Distinguished Combat Magnum
    610 N 10 mm, 6 shot, stainless
    624 1985 1986 NT 44 Spl 1985 Target Stainless
    625 N 45 ACP and 45 Colt Stainless
    627 N 357 Magnum, Stainless
    629 1979 NT 44 Mag Stainless
    629 Classic N 44 Mag, Stainless, full underlug
    639 1982 Auto 9mm 8 shot DA Semi Auto Stainless
    645 1985 Auto 45ACP DA Semi Auto Stainless
    649 1985 JC 38 Spl Bodyguard Stainless
    650 1982 JM 22 WMRF Service Kit Gun Stainless
    651 1982 JTM 22 WMRF Target Kit Gun Stainless
    657 N 41 Magnum, 6 shot, Stainless
    659 1982 Auto 9mm 14 shot DA semi Auto Stainless
    669 1985 Auto 9mm 12 shot DA Semi Auto Stainless
    681 1980 L 357 Mag Distinguished Service Mag Stainless
    686 1980 L 357 Mag Distinguished Combat Mag Stainless
    686+ L 357 Mag, 7 shot cylinder, Stainless
    SW1911 2003 45 ACP 1911


    Model and Dash numbering system
    --------------------------------
    Model 10
    -1 1959 Heavy Barrel
    -2 1961 Changed extractor rod thread to LH on standard barrel
    -3 1961 Same as above, for heavy barrel
    -4 1962 Screw in front of trigger eliminated
    -5 1962 1/10" to 1/8" front sight, on standard barrel
    -5 1962 Screw in front of trigger guard eliminated on
    heavy barrel model
    -7 1977 Change to put gas ring from yoke to cylinder
    -8 1977 Change to put gas ring from yoke to cylinder
    on heavy barrel model
    Model 12 1957
    -1 1962 Change extractor rod to LH thread, eliminate
    screw in front of trigger guard
    -2 1962 Front sight changed from 1/10" to 1/8"
    -3 1977 Gas ring on yoke to cylinder
    -4 1984 Change frame thickness to same as all K frames
    Model 13 No designation used to avoid confusion with air force model
    13 air crewman
    Model 13
    -1 1974 Introduced
    -2 1977 Change back to gas ring on cylinder
    -3 1982 eliminate cylinder counterbore
    Model 14,15,16,17,18,48,53 (all start without dash in 1957)
    -1 1959 Change to LH extractor rod thread
    -2 1961 Cylinder stop changed, hole in front of trigger
    guard eliminated
    -3 1967 Relocation of rear sight leaf screw
    -4 1977 Changed gas ring from yoke to cylinder
    19 All of the above changes and
    -5 1982 Eliminate cylinder counterbore

    N-Frame Model Blue
    ------------------

    Model 20,21,22,23,24,25 (except 25-5) 26,27,28,29
    -1 1960 Change to LH thread
    -2 1961 Cylinder stop changed, hole in front of trigger
    guard eliminated
    -3 1982 Eliminate cylinder counterbore (magnums only)
    -4 2004 Thunder Ranch 44 Special, fixed sight
    Model 57 1964 Introduced
    -1 1982 Eliminate cylinder counterbore
    Model 629 1980 Introduced
    -1 1982 Eliminate cylinder counterbore
    Model 25-5 1978 -5 means 45 Colt caliber
    125'th anniversary model, -3 (standard) -4 (delux)
    both of these used a shorter than standard cylinder.
    -7 1985 45 Colt, 5" barrel, unfluted cylinder
    K-Frame Stainless Models
    ------------------------
    64 1970 Introduced
    -1 1972 Heavy barrel
    -2 1977 2" standard barrel, gas ring from yoke to cylinder
    -3 1977 Same as above, for heavy barrel
    65 -1 1974 introduced
    -2 1977 gas ring from yoke to cylinder
    -3 1982 Eliminate cylinder counterbore
    66 1971 introduced
    -1 1977 Gas ring from yoke to cylinder
    -2 1982 Eliminate cylinder counterbore
    67 1972 introduced
    -1 1977 gas ring from yoke to cylinder
    39 1957 start of model numbering system
    -1, 1961 Made in 38 AMU cartridge for military 87 made.
    52-A -2 1971 Change of extractor
    41 1957 start of model numbering system
    -1 1960 22 Short chambering
    (dash number not always stamped)
    52 1961 introduced
    -1 1963 Single action only
    -2 1971 Changed extractor
    52-A See model 39-1
    59 1971 introduced, no dash numbers used during production
    61 1970 introduced in March
    -1 May '70 Add magazine safety
    -2 Sep '70 Addition of barrel nut
    -3 1971 Forged Al frame
    76 1968 introduced, discontinued 1974 no dash numbers used

    Small Frame Revolvers
    ---------------------
    Model 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35
    1957 Start of numbering system
    -1 1961 Change from I frame to J frame
    36 -1 1967 Indicates 3" heavy barrel
    37, 38, 40, 42, 43, 49, 63, 649, 650, 651
    No dash numbers ued on above numbers
    60 1965 Introduced
    -1 1972 Heavy barrel variation made in 1972, not marketed
    limited production only
     
  22. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Palmtech:


    Before I can go forward you have to confirm the serial number. It should be stamped in the following places:

    On the bottom of the butt

    On the rear face of the cylinder

    On the bottom of the barrel, on the flat that is above the ejector rod.

    These can be hard to read because the numbers are small. I have to use a magnifying glass.

    There is another number stamped on the frame behind the yoke (the part that the cylinder swings out on) and you have to open the cylinder to see it. For the time being, ignore it because it’s an assembly number that has nothing too do with the serial number.

    If the revolver has adjustable sights that were originally put there by the factory when the gun was made it must have been custom ordered, and as such would be much more valuable as a collector’s item.
     
  23. ArgetFaol

    ArgetFaol Member

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    Location:
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    Thought I would revive an old thread instead of posting a new one...

    Hello,
    I have a .38 S&W Special revolver that my Uncle recently gave to me that he received years ago from my Grandfather. He thinks my grandfather traded for it when he was in the military (WWII I believe) but is not sure, but anyways I was wondering if I could get the manufacture date and rough value.

    Specs:
    4 inch barrel, J-frame (I think)
    Left Barrel:38 S&S Special & U.S. Service CTG's
    Right Barrel: Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass. USA PAT'D March 27 94. May 21 95. Aug 4 96. Dec 22 96. Oct 8 01. Dec 17 01. Feb 6 o6.
    Right Frame: S&W Trade Mark on
    Flat Under/above pin: B 1042XX
    Number behind revolver hinge: 271XX (not a serial I know, but sure if I should X out the last two digits or not. if not necessary I will post later.)
    Serial on Bottom of hilt: 1042XX
    Black Walnut grip, diamond pattern with screw through center. No S&W Marks.

    Its not in perfect condition, but I don't mind. Honestly I am just curious and the scars and wear on it give it character and speaks of its history, which means much more to me than a high price value. I have no intention of selling or getting rid of it. I don't know if it was blued or nickle, but its silver/gray metal with some rust discoloration on the outside. Inside of barrel is clean and it is fully functional. My grandfather used it up till he gave it to my Uncle and my uncle used it as a side arm when hunting up until about two years ago, and I have used it this past year.

    Images are attached.
    PIC-0061.jpg

    PIC-0062.jpg
     
  24. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Your Grandfather's revolver is a Smith & Wesson .38 1905 Hand Ejector, 1st Change. It was more popularly known as the Military & Police model, or M&P. It was made on the K, not J frame.

    The 1st change variant were made between 1906 and 1909, within a serial number range running from 73,251 to about 146,899. Standard barrel lengths were 4, 5, 6 and 6 1/2 inches. Standard finishes were blue or nickel plate. The 6-shot cylinder was chambered in .38 Special, but could also shoot the standard .38 Long Colt cartridge used by the U.S. military services at that time. Without question, your Grandfather could have obtained the gun during the First World War period (1918).

    1024xx is the correct serial number, which is duplicated on the bottom of the barrel (ignore the "B"), rear cylinder face, and inside one of the stocks. the number on the frame and yoke (271xx) are assembly numbers that are of no importance to us now.

    When shooting it keep in mind that it is at least 100 years old, and avoid the use of Plus-P ammunition.

    Value in it's present condition is probably around $175 to $200 at best.
     
  25. ArgetFaol

    ArgetFaol Member

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    Thanks for the info! was really just curious on its age and a little on the history which you have more than given me.
     
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