Omega III Rifle by Homer Koon - what's it worth

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Koon- listen up. I'm going to keep this short and sweet, based on the moderators post. Your attitude towards me sucks. You act like I'm some piece of garbage. You seem to paint a picture that my motivation of being in this thread is to rip some one off. Let me tell you, I am anything but that. Since you dont know me any better than Adam, you "calling me out" doesnt sit well with me. AT ALL.

Let me give you some solid facts, so you can understand that my integrity and actual intent in this thread was genuine:

I do not get a spiff, kick back, "finders fee" or any other BS (means "bologna sandwich" since we like to explain simple internet abbreviations) you seem to think I get.

I do not have any financial interest, part ownership or anything of the sort regarding S10.

I have a friend who owns it, who in my opinion personally is one of those "salt of the earth" types of people. He will help anyone on dang near anything. All I did was relay his information.

Dryft, I am not angry at all, nor am I upset. I'm more aggrivated about being called a lier, cheat, con artist and other things when I am nothing of the sort.

On another note Koon, no I didnt get an email with that post, I dont have that option enabled. i regularly surf THR on a semi daily basis and saw the post was bumped.

Since your dad seemed to be a so-so book/record keeper based on the limited information that I have actually looked around for on the internet, it seems that we have to believe you as gospel when it comes to your fathers business.
let me ask you a question: how old were you when all this happened? im being serious.

Admittedly, I have been around my fathers business my entire young life. From about 6 weeks old (strapped to a chimney while my dad worked on a roof) till I was about 18...... every single summer and almost every weekend I worked for my father doing construction work....... now that I am an adult and have my own career working on BMW's, I could'nt tell you much about how to build a house.

I would love to hear more about the numbers, manufacturing and history of your Fathers guns, but will not participate in a thread that involves personal attacks and slander towards others when it isnt called for.

~halogrinder
 
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I would love to hear more about the rifles made by Ranger Arms. I've been looking for one of these for several years now. There seems to be do little information floating around. Would love to see a book on the history of all of this as well.
 
I would love to hear more about the rifles made by Ranger Arms. I've been looking for one of these for several years now. There seems to be do little information floating around. Would love to see a book on the history of all of this as well.
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+1 on both accounts.

:)
 
And Now, the Rest of the Story

I want to start out by apologizing to the forum members who had enjoyed this thread for my part in this tone that has developed in the thread. I probably should not have called anyone out by name. I should just have referred to their posts as potentially dishonest that could lead to the sale of a rifle under deceitful and fraudulent means.

I recall driving back from a hunt a couple years ago thinking I should track down and buy at least one of every rifle that my father designed and made. These rifles that I would acquire would hopefully be passed down in my family from generation to generation… lots of time to think when you are on the road. This wasn’t the 1st time I’d had this thought and I’ve had other ideas such as I might make and name the design that never got made (I have the plans). Or I might even remake one of my father’s designs. I might even improve on it if that could be. Until this thread, I don’t really remember ever thinking about a book.

My father sold his Ranger rifle (it was a presentation complete with the engraving and inlays – very nice gun). I’m not sure of the circumstance, but I’m sure that we needed the money. He sold his Omega to help pay for my sister’s college. It was a beautiful rifle on its own as all Omegas are. He had hunted with it and I’m sure the person who bought it did so as much for the fact that it was my father’s rifle as any other reason. My father’s Alpha was stolen after his death. I have my Alpha that I built with my father prior to my college days at Texas A&M. Snake Charmers… got plenty. Did you know those are still made? Now in Turkey. The worst design of all was the most successful.

So I decided during that drive that I would 1st track down and buy an Omega. After all, I’m not getting any younger. I did a search on the web. I found a whole lot of disinformation out there including this thread. There was one person who went by ltriker that had tried to sell S-10 on Gunbroker on 9/15/2005 for a really high amount. Curiously this rifle he was selling was “not his”. His ad used a lot of the same claims that exists in Post #78. The story at that time was that there were 10 presentation rifles… the others were given to the board of directors who turned them in to be destroyed. According to this person, the presentation rifles were unique in that the “they got special polishing treatment, glossier wood finishing, perfect alignment on every part, and were NEVER test fired“. Remember the test fired questions? There were also only 9 production rifles left. Why, how on earth would I possibly find one with only nine Omega III’s in existence? I must have been just plum out of my mind. :banghead:

This auction had long expired by the time I read it, thus I did not have an opportunity to contribute any to the dialog. Fortunately other posters didn’t believe the story either… and needless to say, S-10 did not sell. After a certain poster on this thread, I did go back out and find it so that I would have a record of it. Last time I looked I couldn’t find it.

There was also this thread on The High Road… it had started in late January 2009 and was still going almost a year later. The facts were just all wrong. This was most likely not intentional, but due to few folks with knowledge of Omega and this forum. They found what they could on the web… which itself probably originated by that 2005 post in Gunbroker. It is funny how everything on the web is supposed to be the truth. Heck, I just read on this thread that my father must have been really bad at record keeping because it is not on the internet. Yea, I remember getting on the web quite a bit back in the 70s, on my laptop with my wireless wifi… I even remember that guy that invented the web… his name was Al Gore wasn’t it? :) And they said back then that if you don’t put your information on the internet then how will we know it is true? Well my 1st post on this thread was #27 in late December. My sole intention was simply to correct a few facts. Maybe even locate an Omega. I guess this internet information didn’t really dissuade me after all from finding one of the elusive nine that were left.

I did find it amazing that there was this interest out there about my father and his guns. And that this post was still active almost a year after it started. It had been a very long time since anyone contacted me about one of my dad’s guns. I had helped several folks who had contacted me. I can’t recall if any of them were about Omega. You’ve got to really wonder just how much effort some of these guys put in to really find out the true information. I guess they didn’t really need to. After all according to them, Homer told them.

For a while it seemed like folks here liked my posts as much as I liked writing about my father. In my eyes, I was very fortunate to have the father I had. I was also so fortunate to grow up with guns and hunting. I rebuilt my 1st rifle when I was 12. It was an old “Ranger” 22 long rifle for those who really have a memory. Not the same as my father’s Rangers. By the time I started college, I knew how to work most any machinery from a mill to a lathe. And I knew guns. My future in the industry was just about preordained. That was the plan long before I was 18 years old. So you see, not only do I like talking about my father, I like talking about guns and I was paying a little bit of attention while I was growing up.

So, it was 4/1/2010 when ltriker posted with #35. Funny, I just now got the irony of the date – I should have known it was a joke. I knew it was probably the same guy that had placed that 2005 ad. At this time, I did not know if he just had bad information or really bad intentions. I responded to the claims in what I thought was a very nice way. I had actually already provided information that was in direct contradiction to his claims. I had even posted the pic of what the presentation rifles looked like. I guess he didn’t appreciate the information I provide because he never posted again.

Then post #49 claims a presentation rifle for sale for the bargain price of 55k. More S-10 for sale on posts #52, #57 #72, #73, #77, #78, #80, #82, #84, #85, & #86. They had a really good buzz going on the thread that I had already provided the truth according to dk. My father was quoted in #57 as the rifle never being fired. We now know that the posters have no interest in this gun what so ever, but my father did tell at least one of these posters that this rifle that the poster did not own had never been fired. I often search out the manufacturer of firearms that I do not own and ask silly questions about someone else’s gun. :D

And no one is trying to sell this gun; they are just really interested in this thread. According to them, they only mentioned that it was for sale and to contact them if you are interested. And no one is the owner of this gun that is for sale. But let’s repeat this over and over while clicking our ruby red slippers, S-1, S-2, S-10… S-1, S-2, S-10… and throw in a couple of Homer told me’s. And wa la, we have a new truth all courtesy of the internet. :eek:

It was really #78 that was my tipping point. I was probably really tired. Last year I was pretty busy. This guy or guys have said
1. S-10 is the 3rd presentation rifle
2. Only S-1 and S-2 got the gold and ruby treatment.
3. #3 which is S-10 was given to the rancher friend and no one had seen it since…
4. every other one was cut up into pieces.
5. there was a design flaw.
6. my father felt betrayed and his hopes of owning a manufacturing plant were ruined due to some accident in 1970 with a hand gun that my father did not design or make.
7. And they say that Homer Koon told them all this like they knew my father.
8. “Regardless of what anyone else says”

Obviously they think they know more than I do. I think even when I posted S-1, S-2 and S-3 all in the same picture they still didn’t get it. I say a picture is worth a thousand words. The picture shows all of three of the presentation rifles with the gold and ruby treatment (S-1, S-2 and S-3). Notice what it doesn’t show, S-10. As a matter of fact, there is not a single article written about S-10. And there are a lot of articles written about Omega III.

Now they say
1. Who is this dfkoon, what makes you the authority?
2. Why should I believe you?
3. I was only relaying information.
4. Whether this S-10 is or isn’t isn’t for you to decide.
5. How ‘dare you call me out?
6. How dare you make this personal?
7. No, S-3 doesn’t exist. S-10 exists.
8. S-10 is the 3rd gun and it’s for sale.
9. My friend has it.
10. You have no knowledge.
11. You were too young.
12. I’m not part of a con and you need to understand this.

Not once has any of these guys said, hey, maybe we don’t know what we are talking about. And maybe, our “salt of the earth friend” doesn’t know what he is talking about either. And gee, I can see how it looks like we are part of a con. Why is my friend relaying his posts thru me anyway?

The post most of yall didn’t see was from a guy who said Mr. Riker is the owner of S-10 and this new poster wants to buy it. He goes on to say that no one knows what it is worth cause there are no records. The post did exist and it did disappear. I thought that quite odd. I did hope this guy would buy this rifle or pretend to and that no one ever asks about it again.

See the new twist? There are no records. Why do these guys think that there are no records? Just because they don’t have them, they don’t exist. Oh that’s right, cause it’s not on the internet. If it’s not on the internet then it doesn’t exist. I know this next bit of information will totally astound everybody. Omega Arms didn’t even have a computer. I know it is hard to believe that a company could exist without a computer. But before you draw that inevitable conclusion that Omega Arms didn’t have a computer therefore there were no records. Remember some of the prehistoric companies used this technology called typewriters, paper and carbon paper. Mind boggling isn’t it? Before we had the internet, we had newspapers. :uhoh:

Most likely S-10 is going to remain for sale for 55K. The story behind it will continue to change as it already has. And the truth most likely will not be part of that story. I do not fault anyone for buying and selling rifles and making a profit along the way. I don’t think my father would fault them either. He made a living from his guns. So some guy got this rifle from a widow for a bargain. I think everyone reading this post would have bought it from that widow if they could’ve. Some of us might have insisted on a fair price for the widow… and maybe this guy did. I don’t know what he paid… I don’t think I would trust it if I heard it.

I just don’t like the lies that have been told in trying to sell this rifle. I do not know what else to call it either. It is not a misunderstanding. There is absolutely no possible way that my father ever said some of the things these guys say he said. Isn’t it always convenient when someone quotes someone who is dead? I haven’t even mentioned what I know about S.P. Fjestad. The story changes as bits of truth are presented. Therefore, it can’t even be said that it is an unintentional lie. The lies behind S-10 are my entire objection. “I will not lie, cheat or steal or tolerate those who do” was a code from the corps (A & M). I have tried to live my adult life by that code. Obviously, I didn’t tolerate some of these guys very well. Sometimes I just cut through all of the political niceties and call a spade a spade.

Then the real kicker; S-10 is not even that unique. It doesn’t have the unique stock they originally claimed. I can provide plenty of pictures of production guns with equal or better stocks. Special polishing? Really? The receiver is kind of redish is what is unique. Rust is kind of redish too. Though I won’t claim that is rust. But we are to believe that a redish receiver (not that I think it looks good), is worth and extra $55000 – $400 (new) = $54600. See the reason for the lies? I won’t put a value to it, but if it were offered to me for $2000, I would turn it down.

Start with a beautiful rifle that was made a long time ago. Make sure most of the folks who know about this rifle are dead. Build up a story around it as to how unique it is. Shoot for the moon when you put a value on it – after all it is one of a kind. The bigger the price, the more the story must be true. When you tell folks about it make sure that you say that you don’t own it, but you know someone who does and you can help. That sounds like the ultimate con to me. The owner, he didn’t tell a story. The “friends”, they were just doing a favor. It doesn’t even have to be a gun for a con like that to work. At the end of the day, everyone can deny their part. And on the internet, everyone thinks they are anonymous. I do believe that if these guys sell S-10 under false pretenses as they have tried (at least twice) that we will all meet in a room one day. And there’s likely to be this guy wearing a robe and holding a gavel. These guys most likely won’t like what he says either. For you see, there will be someone who spent a lot of money for this gun based on a lie. He will show it to his friends who will tell him of this person that actually knew Homer Koon and actually knows a thing or two about the Omega III. Stories will be swapped. And then this person who spent his hard earned 55k for this gun will have the worst feeling in his gut for he will know at that point that he fell for a con. Those who told the story, they will be called coconspirators. They are not quite as anonymous as they might think. They will end up testifying against their friend who makes the sale and the person with the gavel, who has to sit in judgment, will have to figure it all out. We the taxpayers will have to foot the bill. :fire:

Ok, so I think that is about it on that subject for me. I only mentioned one name this time as that was the original name, and I couldn’t tell the story very well without it. I should also restate that in that 2005 ad, he didn’t own the gun either. He too may be just “a friend”. The only post that I’ve seen that states he is the owner is that post that disappeared. The other guys… you decide your level of participation in all of this. If you believe in your heart that you did not participate in any type of deception, then hold your head up high. Continue on as you have before, keep your dear friend and help him sell his rifle. Either way you do not need to let me know.

I do apologize to this forum for previously losing my cool. I’m not sure how many of you there are. Is there 10 or 100 or more folks that follow this thread? I could’ve probably accomplished the same result with ridicule and humor. I think I’m too close to the subject matter. While I wasn’t looking for a fight, I’m not the type to back down either. I haven’t liked my last few posts. I’m not sure that I like this one either. This was supposed to be about my father’s guns; not about me. Notice how most of my posts are rather long? I hope that was ok. I might just have enough words in me to make a book happen.

I think this will be my last post for a while. I know a couple of folks will be thankful for that. I also know a couple of folks would like to hear more about Ranger and I can see now that I did not answer all of the questions. I think focusing my effort on a book would be better use of my time. Maybe I’ll post parts as I complete them. I hope the name calling doesn’t continue, but if it does I do not think I will participate. I think I have accomplished what I originally intended. I presented the truth to the best of my ability.

I would also hate to see this post removed. When you do a search on the internet this thread pops up. I’d certainly like the truth to remain for as long as possible. And I’m sure the forum has gotten at least a couple new members as a result.

I reread most of the thread in deciding how this post would go. A couple more things I’d like to address.
1. I should not have posted that poem. I’m proud of my son, but yall could care less. In retrospect, it looks egotistical.
2. I called the P models as prototypes. My father called them pilot models. It’s the same thing – just different terminology. Not all of the pilot models were destroyed either. Most were not.
3. Armlaw, I either missed or forgot when you asked about the picture. I am going to digitize the pictures and articles that I have. I’ll drop you a dvd of it.
4. rbernie or other moderator, I am curious of the post that disappeared. I would like to know if a moderator removed it and why. It was obviously part of the sell job.
5. I am going to edit a couple of my posts. There are some misspelled words. What kind of writer am I?

I am about to acquire my Omega III. I was so fortunate to find one of the only 9 that still exist. :rolleyes: The next rifle I intend to acquire will be a Ranger. Luckily no one has told me that those were also destroyed. So if you come across some for sale. Drop me a line. Ideally, I’d buy back my father’s… I think last time it sold it was for ~17K. It is a real presentation model and probably worth it. I just don’t know that I would want to pay that much and I’m sure the price will have increased. I think I could make one every bit as nice for a lot less.

The book idea has gone from 50% to more like 99.9% probability. I’m actually getting kind of excited about it. There are a couple of folks that have expressed wanting to help. The digitization of the articles and pictures is just the 1st step. I like gun books to have lots of pictures. I thought it would be a mix between technical facts about the guns to the story behind each company as well as stories about my father. I would love to name as many names as I can of folks who were involved. So if you know someone who knows someone, let them know that the project is in work. They might want to contribute.

I think this thread is going to make a great chapter in the book. It is definitely the inspiration. Maybe it will be the final chapter or maybe the 1st. Starting is the toughest part. 14 years after my father’s death might be the way to start. I was thinking working in “the high road” into the chapter’s name. I’m sure I’d probably have to get the site’s permission. What do you think? Or maybe I’ll call it the riker factor. That has a nice symbolic ring to it.

I just provided my gun club with a story about my father’s elk hunt with John Connolly and Herb Klein. I had previously donated the elk. There will be some stories like that too. This book might not make it to a bookstore or a best sellers list… and it might only be electronic. Heck, I might be the only one who buys a copy. I won’t get rich doing it so I’ll definitely be keeping my day job. If you have specific ideas or things you’d like to read about, drop me a line. PM or add it to the thread. I do get emails when someone posts to this thread or sends a PM.

I encourage everyone to re-read the entire thread. It is amazing how this thread started, developed and ended. As I’ve said, people tend to know the truth when it is presented. Talk it up. Keep it going. Heck, maybe I’m the one living in la la land. You decide. God Bless, even those that I’ve offended.
 
Is there 10 or 100 or more folks that follow this thread?
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Can't speak for anyone but myself, but I have read it from day one, and it is one of the few threads (very few, perhaps the only one that I didn't create myself) of which I retain a perennial subscription.

Anyway, I'll try to keep my post brief for the poor fellers that read your big ole wall of text (I read every character and am rather proud of myself for it) :neener:. My first thought is that I would love to hear more, particularly about the Rangers, as I may very well be interested in one, or perhaps an Omega III, but I like to educate myself on most any rifle prior to making a purchase and I don't know a great deal about either (fair warning, I haven't $55k to spend on one). Whether I buy one or not, or you decide to post more here in this thread, I am interested in the book...so now you know to print at least two copies (I like books, but I don't have $55k for that either ;)). If you decide to write the book (and it seems that you are intent on doing just that), I am a pretty fair writer, and wouldn't mind helping you edit, time permitting (feel free to PM me if you'd like).

Now lets start a new chapter and leave the negativity behind. :)
 
rbernie or other moderator, I am curious of the post that disappeared. I would like to know if a moderator removed it and why. It was obviously part of the sell job.
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No posts have been removed from this thread - the supposition by halogrinder that a post was missing was made in error.
 
mod- im POSITIVE there was a post that was there and then removed.... i mean koon and i arnt the only ones who saw it, right?
 
A while back some data was lost (about 1 complete days worth, including new memberships and PMs) while moving to a new server...this might be the origin of the confusion.

:)
 
Questions, answer on Omega III

Is this thread still open? I have first hand information on the Omega III and the Ranger rifles. I found this site a few nights ago looking for the site where we made the rifles using Google Earth fly over.

The S10 rifle is not one of the high grade presentation rifles. The plain S10 color on the reciever was due to the alloy used in investment casting of the first few recievers. The first three rifle actions were machined from either 4140 or 4340 bar stock. You may find a few rifles with the gloss of black chrome plate finish. Many changes were made in the manufacturing process to find the best combinations.

I hope to clear up some of the information on this rifle.

Les Brooks, gunsmith working with Homer Koon from 1966
 
Les, this thread is certainly still open. I don't know about the other folks subscribed to it, but I personally would love to hear more about Koon's creations, particularly the Ranger. Thank you for chiming in, and I hope you find the time to tell us more.

:)
 
Maverick223 and Others,

I have been in contact with one other person that I know worked on both the Ranger and Omega rifles. We are trying to write up an outline of events in making the actions. This all started in 1966 when Homer came to me with his first project action. I barrelled the first one and a few more before the plant was built in Gainesville, Tx. He hired me to move to Gainesville and be his first head gunsmith at the plant. I didn't do the machining of the parts. He had a shop foreman head up about 6 machinist. I made the final assemble and checked for the tolerances working with the actions. If you want to see the patents go to Google Patents and search under Homer Koon rifle actions.

This was a long time ago and trying to remember events comes back slowly. I hope to get with the Duncan Koon and help with the writing of his book with facts that I only know. I think he was about 4 or 5 yrs old when we made the first guns. I am still waiting to hear from him.

I have been open with my name and don't hide behind any posts. I wish others would do the same.

Les
 
Omega III 7mm

Hi, I am also looking to see the value of an Omega III 7mm rifle that someone is offering to sell us. After reading most of the older posts, it seems to be a legit rifle except for an unusual serial # starting with DMX **? could it be a prototype? the rifle has never been fired and is in pristine condtion. Anyone have any more info on this it would be much appreciated.
 
Great thread. Im looking for info on the alpha I. Whats the difference between the alpha and alpha I. My father bought this alpha I in the 80s and it is the finest shooting rifle ive ever shot. Its has been used alot for many years, and would like to find as much info as I can get. I would never sell or trade it in fact I would like to purchase others.
 
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New sighting!

Hey y'all!

I got a gander at a buddy's 7mmRemMag last night and decided to try to learn a bit more about it and VOILA!:eek:

Wow! To have uncovered such a rewarding thread about something I've actually seen and knew had to have a good backstory is fantatstic.

So my buddy's is an Omega III, jeweled bolt, square bolt face, did not get any other markings off of it. It is a gem, to be sure. He says he's taken some deer with it, should I tell him not to for value's sake?

So here's to the reopening of a great thread and another positive ID of an Omega III in 7mmRemMag!
 
He says he's taken some deer with it, should I tell him not to for value's sake?
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Not an expert (really just a spectator), but in my opinion, absolutely not. It's not highly engraved (artwork), outstandingly valuable, nor historically significant (not to detract from a very nice rifle); the rifle in question, like most others, was designed to be used...as long as it's not abused, I'd let it be. In my experience a good rifle with a few character marks from use in the field brings more joy than one that sits in a glass cabinet never to be touched. In other words, I'll not chastise someone for a differing opinion of their own guns, but mine are to be used (in one way or another)...and if I pick one up, that's just what I'll do.

:)
 
Welcome to THR, Roger_Roger! That is a beautiful example of an Omega, want to tell us a bit about it?

:)
 
Slimbo said:
beautiful rifles, i wouldnt mind having one in 25-06. :) where abouts in denton was the production located?

my grandparents have a snake charmber, first real gun i ever fired.
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Slimbo....Use the calculator on Post #58 to convert the 1970 price of $600 into today's depreciated FRN's
If you are still interested in a 25-06 at current FRN price, let me know. Armlaw
 
I am selling by best friends deceased father's Omega III (Mound Flower) for him and am hoping to contact Mr. Koon for more info. I've sent a PM but no response within this past week. Any one know another way to contact him?

Thanks,

Alan
 
Welcome to THR.org, Alan.

No idea the best way to contact him, but he has made his identity clear so you can probably track him down with a little searching on the internet (social networking, et al).

I would recommend that you (or your friend) post an offer to sell in the Buy, Sell, & Trade forum here on THR, you might just find a buyer, and you won't have to pay a service charge for listing it like GunBroker or GunsAmerica. Best of luck...

:)
 
I bought mine at the Dallas Gun Show many moon's ago, would buy another on a full moon.
 
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