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On Fighting Shotguns....

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by Dave McCracken, Apr 12, 2008.

  1. DeadFlies

    DeadFlies Member

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    Aw, give the noobie a break, Sam. THR FTW!

    Anyway, I think he did a nice job putting it all together. And I agree: more pics!
     
  2. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Hey, serious question, at least sort of. I mean, if you're going to have the part on your gun, wouldn't you practice so you know how to use it?
     
  3. DeadFlies

    DeadFlies Member

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    Logical, except that breaching devices, being useless, have no use. What's to know? ;)
     
  4. Buggy

    Buggy Member

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    The door breaching muzzle is an outstanding hand to hand fighting device. It has very sharp teeth that would thwart trying to grab the muzzle. (I have often cut myself on the dang things)

    Remember, most shootouts happen at less than ten feet.

    If you are fighting for your life in your home in realistic circumstances, you are going to be close and its going to be messy. This shotgun is exactly for that purpose, I have other shotguns for hunting, clay and fun. This aint a fun-gun. :D

    My experience is from being a retired cop and soldier. In both instances, I would have taken a breaching muzzle over a standard in a heart beat.

    It's the reality of the situation.
     
  5. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    I've often wondered how to harm someone with the front end of a shotgun. Now I know.
     
  6. Buggy

    Buggy Member

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    Here are a few pictures of the single point sling retention bolt. You can purchase it from a reputable gunsmith or online at Brownells. It replaces the trigger housing pin:

    attachment.jpg

    attachment.jpg

    attachment.jpg

    The benefits of a forward mounted single point sling are the ease of rest to ready position and the ease of attaching and removing. This is a picture of my son demonstrating:

    attachment.jpg
     
  7. Buggy

    Buggy Member

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    Combat is full of unforeseen variables. Bad guys don't stand perfectly still for you to shoot them - They move, lunge and make very bad targets. It is quite common for two people to grapple even with firearms. (I have investigated many such cases) Not to mention common firearm malfunctions... Shotguns also have an erroneous "Mystique" about them, mainly when they are employed, it's assumed to be an end all situation. The pattern of your average scatted gun will be tight in a home defense situation, again erroneous - You do have to aim.

    When all else fails, a stab to the head with this muzzle will end hostilities quickly. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
  8. Al Thompson

    Al Thompson Moderator Staff Member

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    Nice looking shotgun. Point it at me and I'll leave. :D

    One thing our folks from across the pond don't always realize is that our larger sized buckshot is pretty unique. When I was in SA OO buck was unknown, but SSG was available.
     
  9. huey148

    huey148 Member

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    Both of these are 870s... top one is a former Ohio State Highway Patrol trade in I bought and stuck the Knoxx recoil stock to see if it works... It does. The other is a "simple" express 870 I bought used at my LGS for $150.... spent more than that to have the worn finish redone with duracoat and an XS big dit put on the front. It's not fancy.. Just a 4+1 shotty with a 18.5" barrel... But it's light and handy and points and shoots quickly... Simple is good sometimes
     

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  10. Dirty Bob

    Dirty Bob Member

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    Mine can be seen in the Mossberg catalog, or at Gallery of Guns, etc. Just a plain-jane Mossberg 500 youth 20 gauge with a vent rib and screw-in chokes. Seemed like a lot of shotgun for $200, at least to me.

    It shoots to point of aim with buckshot and is very controllable and reliable. I've used it in shotgun games, to test it and for practice. It's a lot of fun to shoot, but it looks like a hunting shotgun. I spent the money I saved on the gun to buy ammo to shoot through it! :D

    I really bought into Dave McCracken's recommendation to buy ammo, use it, repeat. It's a great way to know your shotgun...and your own abilities.

    All my best,
    Dirty Bob
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
  11. Brink

    Brink Member

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    Someone called for pics?

    My 870 with Knoxx stock, Blackhawk forearm, Choate mag extension, Mesa side-saddle, weaver rail, fake ACOG, no-name barrel clamp with rails, Nebo Protec 190lm flashlight, and a modified choke.

    11377616944_aaa3c9e03b_c.jpg
    Untitled by kamelean, on Flickr
     
  12. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    Brink, how's the cheek weld with the ocular of that sight sitting up so high? How well do the fake ACOG and the Nebo light handle full power 12 ga recoil?
     
  13. Brink

    Brink Member

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    I have to hold my head up fairly high, but that is fine for me as that stock has kicked back into my cheekbone a few times and taught me how to hold it.

    The fake ACOG is holding up so far. I got it off Amazon, it is the very highly rated one. I've put probably 20 magnum shells through it, and no problems so far. Shooting slugs through it all go in the same hole at 25 yards, so the POA hasn't shifted at all.

    The Nebo is holding up great as well. No complaints there either.
     
  14. Fishbed77

    Fishbed77 Member

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    Here's my new Christmas present to myself. Just acquired her Monday.

    Mossberg M590A1 w/ 18.5" barrel

    CopyofDSC_1225_zps3a958545.jpg
     
  15. RTR_RTR

    RTR_RTR Member

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    Cheeky
     
  16. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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    VERY nice, Fishbed - that looks to be about perfect. Congratulations!

    Now it deeds that most important of shotgun accessories - wear marks :D
     
  17. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    This has been stickied since 2008 and I'm just now reading it. I totally agree with Dave on all points and I'm just a wing shooter, not a soldier or police officer.

    I'd like to add that familiarity being the key, practice (Dave mentions this), no familiarity works for me better than actual use in the field. This is why I like my little coach gun which is my every day utility field gun and favorite dove gun. I've taken everything from dove to small game to, recently, an 8 point buck with 3 buck from 35 yards. I KNOW this gun well from use. It fits me, he also mentions this, and it is very compact being a coach gun. I shot a duck off the tank with it the other day and reloaded it as I watched the dog chase the wounded duck back to the tank, never looked down at the gun. That's how familiar one needs to be with their firearm, especially if it's not a multi shot repeater, IMHO. Actual field use insures this.

    If I wanted a pump, I'd get a Mossberg or a short barrel for my 500 or 535. Been using the 500 for 20 years for duck hunting, pretty familiar with it, too. But, I really prefer the little coach gun. :D
     
  18. Flintknapper

    Flintknapper Member

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    Buggy Wrote:
    ^^^^^^^
    Agreed.

    Not that I expect to ‘breach’ a door while defending my home, but upon seeing the muzzle, I immediately recognized it to be a weapon itself.

    MossyFlex4_zpsd7089b69.jpg

    Additionally, this feature (on the Mossy I chose) gets you are very thick/sturdy barrel. The muzzle measures right at 5/32” thick and appears to run the length of the barrel. This thing would take a hell of a beating (in real world conditions) and not fail you.

    MossyFlex1_zps473ed37a.jpg


    I prefer a fairly compact shotgun (for home defense), so I went with an 18.5” barrel (5 + 1 capacity) and chose the short version of a butt stock.

    This particular shotgun is the ‘Flex’ model….so the butt stock can quickly be changed out to a longer one…. or a pistol grip, even a six position tactical.

    Various thickness recoil pads are available and change out in just seconds. The fore-end is easily swapped out as well.


    MossyFlex3_zpsc0f2d7f6.jpg

    After you settle on the basic features of your defensive shotgun….you can add accessories (as dictated by your personal needs).

    For me….that was the addition of a sling, a decent light and a sidesaddle.
     
  19. pps

    pps Member

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    This is as close to "tactical" as I will ever adorn my shotgun. The flashlight is useful, and the 5 dollar butt cuff is worth the expense.

    tacedout_zps3e182cff.jpg

    Truth be told, I like this one much better, and it's what I keep at my business. 1975ithica_zps3c97b6d8.jpg

    I have to say that these guns get some funny looks when I take them to the trap range, but it's hard to stay proficient without blowing the rust out of the barrel from time to time.
     
  20. Fishbed77

    Fishbed77 Member

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    Thanks, Fred!

    I'm working on those wear marks!

    So far, it's proving to be a fantastic shotgun. I was glad to find one - it seems like the 20" M590A1s are all over the place, but the 18.5" versions are as rare as hens' teeth around here. The balance of the 18.5" heavy barrel feels just right, and I'm really digging the ghost ring sights - I find them to be every bit as fast as a bead.

    I've been a Remington shotgun guy in the past, but so far, I'm finding this shotgun to be considerably better than any 870 Express I've encountered, and every bit the equal to an 870 Police in terms of quality.

    Actually, I may like the M590A1 better than the 870 Police, due to the balance, slide release location, and the awesome sights. The only downside at all is the poorly-molded corncob foreend, but I will be replacing that soon with a Magpul foreend and weapon-mounted light.
     
  21. Mike1234567

    Mike1234567 member

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    If I needed a "fighting" SG the only one I'd consider is a Saiga 12ga. For "home defense" my inexpensive TriS-Star 12ga is fine but I did add a mag extension.
     
  22. Flintknapper

    Flintknapper Member

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    ^^^^^^^

    I like the 'balance' as well. Fully stoked...mine has a balance point almost exactly in the middle of the weapon, makes pointing and swinging very fast and natural.

    I appreciate the slide release location AND location of the safety as well (tang safety). Tang mounted safety makes it basically 'Ambi'.

    Simple shotgun to disassemble and clean. Very little not to like on the Mossy.
     
  23. strambo

    strambo Member

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    I must confess as to not understanding the breaching device as H2H weapon. In terms of debilitating injury (the type that would stop a determined assailant) what does it add exactly? The teeth aren't long enough to penetrate into vital organs/vessels. If you rake it and tear skin, that is painful, not debilitating.

    The most effective way to use the muzzle is to step in with all your weight in motion and muzzle-punch them in a vulnerable area such as the throat, sternum, solar plexus, bladder, groin etc.

    A fully committed muzzle punch to the sternum (all your body weight in motion behind it) will likely punch through the sternum and into the heart. Little teeth aren't gonna matter. Looks scary though...at the cost of added expense and length.
     
  24. crazyjennyblack

    crazyjennyblack Member

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    I like the looks of a breaching muzzle, but I don't wanna drop that much dough on a shotgun, and I have no idea where to get one that will bolt onto the gun I already have.

    My fighting shotgun is really simple. A 12 gauge Mossberg 500 with a field barrel cut down to 20". I put a high visibility fiber optic bead on the end, and the top of the vent rib got a thin strip of white glow tape all the way down it. Total cost to me - $180 out the door. I later got a sidesaddle for it for $15, and a small LED flashlight got added about a year ago. I've put probably 2 or 3 thousand rounds through it over the years, and it sits in the corner of my bedroom.
     
  25. Nite Ryder

    Nite Ryder Member

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    Seems everyone has an opinion when it comes to shotguns. I noticed several people mentioned wanting to use double barrel shotguns. While these shotguns work fairly well, they are much slower to reload than anything else you can buy or shoot. In recent years they have become popular again because of Cowboy Action Shooting, but it is well known among this group of shooters that a Winchester 97 or Win 97 clone is faster. Double barrels seldom breakdown, but when they do they are difficult to repair unless it a failure of the firing pins. I feel whether you use a Win 97, Remington 870, or a Mossberg 500, you are better equipped than the person using a semi auto loader. The Remington auto's need a simple 'O' ring to function properly. That 'O' ring is easy to break or stretch, when that happens it must be replaced, sometimes there is no warning, your gun works fine and then it stops working, period. You only need one or two shotguns, but they should have short barrels and not alot of gadgets to make them heavy. I feel a weapon mounted flashlight is a huge mistake, that light makes you an easy target, far better to have a light you can hold at arm's length if need be. Anyone shooting at what's behind the light will miss you hopefully. No gun, no matter what it is, is of value if you don't know how to use it and practice using it. Buy yourself some dummy rounds and practice loading your shotgun and then pointing and pulling the trigger on a dummy round as fast as you can. You probably have never been in a gun battle, when you are the thing that saves your life is doing the right thing quickly and accurately, you will never be able to do that unless you practice. If you think I'm wrong, go buy a timer and find out how slow you are. You think you are fast already? Try matching this young lady, she is fast with a shotgun because she knows what she is doing and she practices: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbCjcEO9z1A
     

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