Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

On Fighting Shotguns....

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by Dave McCracken, Apr 12, 2008.

  1. crazyjennyblack

    crazyjennyblack Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    391
    Nyte-Ryder - I think a weapon light could be a risk, like you say, depending on how it is used. People who keep it on all the time could make themselves a target. However, I like having a small light with a tailcap switch on my shotgun, right where I can bump it with a finger. Why? Sometimes just a split second of light is all you need, and a brief flash can disorient someone while giving you the opportunity to correctly identify your target.

    In my case, I don't have children, but I do have a roommate who lives with me. I think weapon lights are a must-have for parents and just about anyone living with someone else. If you don't identify your target in the dark, you break rule #4 "Be sure of your target and what's beyond it."
     
  2. tiamat

    tiamat Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    460
    Location:
    MI
    If we're talking about fighting shotguns, (or any shotguns for that matter), I'm not sure how one would be expected to hold a flashlight at arms length away from their body while maintaining any sort of useful grip on a shotgun for any length of time. I'm of the opinion that a weapon mounted light is more effective.

    That cowboy action shooter's reloading method is neat, and she sure is quick with it - lots of practice I'm sure. But again, I hardly think someone is going to be holding 2 shells in their offhand palm, and two more shells in between their remaining fingers. Useful for a shooting course perhaps, but I don't see this method being employed in a fighting situation.
     
  3. strambo

    strambo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,735
    Location:
    Oregon
    It could work in a fighting situation (or a similar method, juggling all those shells at once wouldn't make sense in a fight). The shells don't start in her hand, they come from her belt holder. Something goes bump in the night, grab the shotgun. No immediate need to shoot? Take 3 seconds to snap the belt on that was stored next to the shotgun.

    I have a similar idea going on, but it isn't a belt, nor is it for shotgun. I have a bullet proof vest under my bed with one side attached so I can put it on with one hand. It has an empty pistol holster, AR magazine, pistol magazine, spare light and flex cuffs.

    If I don't have time to grab it, no loss it just sits there under the bed, that's life. If I do have time, it seriously upgrades my protection and response capability.

    The molle "war belts" can be a handy and inexpensive way to keep some spare ammo, light, cell etc. handy for quick donning if given a chance.

    Again, no downside, you grab gun/light 1st anyway then proceed from there. Heck, if I could afford it and had the time, I'd kit up in full armor, helmet, and night vision with flashbangs. The threat posed by multiple armed persons in a structure is the same in your house as in a house in Iraq or Afghanistan. Multiple armed threats are multiple armed threats, I want every advantage I can get to survive.

    ...I guess I'm on the opposite side of the "I have an old revolver in the nightstand to scare them off" camp I've oft-encountered with casual gun owners. ;)
     
  4. Flintknapper

    Flintknapper Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2006
    Messages:
    1,936
    Location:
    Deep East Texas
    Certainly...holding multiple shotshells in the offhand is a 'gamers' technique not appropriate for real world self defense, BUT the practice of taking a single shotshell and loading it directly into the receiver does have merit.

    Ideally, you'd like to find (or maintain) cover AND have enough time to completely reload your weapon (once shot dry), but you might only have time to load a single round before needing to address a threat. In situations such as that, feeding a shell directly into the receiver and then chambering it....can be done quite swiftly.

    It can be accomplished from over the top or from underneath the receiver. I prefer coming from underneath since the transition from the receiver... back to the forearm is easier/faster (for me).

    Are you likely to 'shoot your weapon dry' in the average home defense scenario, who knows? But... it is an easy skill to learn and I want to have as many 'tools' in my box as I can...if I am unfortunate enough to have to defend myself or family.
     
  5. EmGeeGeorge

    EmGeeGeorge Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    626
    This is kind of interesting.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2004
    Messages:
    21,221
    Location:
    AL, NC
  7. PabloJ

    PabloJ Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,002
    I picked up 12ga 1942 Ithaca that US Government bought for $31.61. It was shipped to Raritan Arsenal after purchase. I have no use for this gun, but piece of history is kool thing to own for sure.
    LGS has 20"? CYL choked fixed barrel (often called non-takedown by fans of the brand) Winchester 1897 riot gun. It has Winchester plus other stuff struck on the slide rail so it's real ole' boy. The gun has hole drilled near heel of stock long ago likely to keep it falling off rack which would happen if gun was carried in rail car for security detail use. That gun is kool too.
     
  8. Corbin

    Corbin Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009
    Messages:
    8
    Well, it took me an hour and a half, but I got through the whole thread. LOL

    I've owned several types of shotguns over the years. Some are more fun/comfortable for me to shoot than others. My current favorite is the Saiga 12, but that doesn't mean it's what I choose for HD. Yeah, the Saiga is very fast and I'm able to use it fairly well, but I still look to my Mossberg pump for home defense. Fairly minimal on accessories too, not like the Saiga. :)

    I have a little bit of a special consideration when it comes to what works for me and what doesn't. 25 plus years ago, while in the Military, I received a 12 ga wound to my right palm that took out the wrist and part of the forearm. My hand was touching the muzzle when it fired (attempting a disarm on a BG). They were (miraculously) able to save the hand, though I have limited use/grip. Being right handed, I had to learn to do more stuff with my left hand, including shooting.

    With a fused right wrist, I almost REQUIRE a pistol grip stock if I'm going to attempt shooting with my right hand. Otherwise, I'd just have a finger or thumb inside the trigger guard without having a hold on the stock. So I tend to fire things left handed. Of course, this makes getting a good grip on the forend difficult (hardly any strength in right hand). I'm looking at a pistol grip on the forend, but haven't liked any of the ones I've handled yet. I'm open to suggestions.

    Reloading for me is typically done with my "strong hand", though that may be against most instructor's teaching. I end up dropping more shells trying to use my offhand to load than anything. I do OK handling magazines with my offhand, but that's more for rifles than shotguns. As I mentioned, I enjoy shooting my Saiga 12, but I don't know that I'd be prone to grabbing a couple extra mags when I hear something go bump at 3AM. So my Saiga stays in the gun safe.

    My HD Mossberg started out as the 500 breacher PGO setup, but having used a PGO shotgun before, I wanted to change that out ASAP. The breacher 500 reminds me of the 590, in that it has a thicker barrel and the 590 style magazine cap, only it's in an 18.5" length. Just an observation.

    I added a +1 choate mag extension and "enhanced" safety tab, as well as velcro on the left side to accept a "side saddle", though I typically don't have one mounted. Still debating a weapon mounted light. It currently has a pistol grip choate (I think) stock on it. Without going to a folding stock, I'm not familiar with any other stock that also has a PG on it. Suggestions? I'd be willing to go with a folding style, though I doubt I'd ever have it folded. LOL

    Thanks for the informative thread.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
  9. Sheepdog1968

    Sheepdog1968 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Messages:
    3,516
    Location:
    CA
    The way I have seen, was trained a shotgun used with a handheld light is by using a Harries technique in which the forearm rests on the wrist. If you need to pump, you then simple invert your wrist and pump as normal with the flashlight still in your hand. In doing so, the bulb, beam of the flashlight is pointing at you. It is not ideal but neither is a gunfight. Yes, a weapons mounted light on long guns is the best way to go.
     
  10. Conelrad

    Conelrad Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2014
    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Hidden Valley, AZ
    An old friend for a desert dweller

    20-year or so old 590 Milsgun, flat finish wood full stock. 9 rounds, simple sling, nothing else added. Usually fed with high-pellet OO buck.

    Kinda' beat up nowadays, many miles in a truck and lots of toting.

    It's dispatched wild dogs, snakes, and settled one argument without firing:cool:.

    It's brother (70's vintage Monkey Wards) lives in the other part of the house.

    DDG
     
  11. cgrutt

    cgrutt Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2014
    Messages:
    65
    Benelli M4 - more fight in it than hopefully I'll ever need, and then some...

    Titanium 7 round tube and charge handle. Mesa tactical stock, fore-end and side saddle.

    [​IMG]

    With a little illumination...
    [​IMG]
     
  12. theblakester

    theblakester Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2011
    Messages:
    92
    My basic living situation has a lot to do with how I have my hd shotgun set up and why I think it's fitting that way for my particular situation...
    Living situation- single. Urban apartment in a normal/decent neighborhood. 1 roommate (he has a shotgun under his bed). We both have serious girlfriends that stay the night frequently and have their own keys. I have a great alert dog that's 50 lbs.
    My HD shotgun is set up with a light and extra ammo. No sling. It's not meant for clearing rooms. Fortunately the floor plan of my current home and bedroom is pretty "HD friendly" given my circumstances (location of my room compared to doors, windows, hallways and location of HD gun(s) compared to my bed and where I keep put my keys, wallet and cell phone. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1416834873.088672.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
  13. wford

    wford Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    Messages:
    62
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    As far as a fighting shotgun I have tried most available options out there, but I am no pro shooter and this is just my take. I prefer semi auto's over pumps because they are faster and recoil less. The downside is the semi's can jam considerably often. As for my favorite, it is easy, vepr 12 all the way. I simply love my vepr 12. For pumps, I would avoid new remington 870's, I had a huge number of problems with mine, and the 870 that replaced the first bad one. I like the mossberg 590's.
     
  14. montanafan

    montanafan Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    3
    Benelli Supernova FDE

    Use an 870 at work, but got a SN for play. Great factory sights, very accurate with slugs. Light/med weight but recoil is fine. Love it.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Sheepdog1968

    Sheepdog1968 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Messages:
    3,516
    Location:
    CA
    As for pumps vs semi autos, my understanding is that the true advantage of the semi auto is one handed operation. As for reliability, the only semi autos that I have personally seen that seem reliable consistently are the Benelli M4s. Personally, I prefer a pump.

    A pump can be shot faster than a semi auto. I saw Scott Retiz do this a number of times with his 870.

    Revolvers can also be shot faster than a semi pistol. Most folks don't have the level of training to do so and in that case the semi auto options can appear faster.
     
  16. Cooldill

    Cooldill Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2011
    Messages:
    6,182
    Location:
    Kansas
    I can slam fire my Winchester Model 12 to where it sounds like a fully automatic.
     
  17. ZVP

    ZVP Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Messages:
    895
    A double barreled, double triggered mechanical device is dependable and in either 12 or 20 effective!
    A pistol back-up is necessary but how many offenders can you expect?
    maybe the double barrel will dissuade them all?
    ZVP
     
    Crawdad1 likes this.
  18. chieftain

    chieftain Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,264
    Location:
    The Free State of Arizona
    My fighting shotguns include a Norinco 12ga double 20" hammer gun, a Mossburg 590A1, and a Benelli M4.

    The hammer gun is loaded and still leaning against my headboard. On my nightstand is my secondary weapon a railed 1911with a surefire light & DG switch.

    Go figure.

    Fred
     
  19. thegunpunch

    thegunpunch Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2015
    Messages:
    47
    I trust my life to my 870 with 1B, I wouldn't mind an M4 in the future though, I love boomsticks for their stopping power and versatility
     
  20. Mr. Standfast

    Mr. Standfast Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2015
    Messages:
    6
    Jeff Cooper's idea of the ideal home defence gun for a householder with no leisure interest in shooting, who would leave the thing unattended for years at a time, was a double hammer gun with tape over the muzzle to stop anything setting up home there. It is instantly available, no springs at all have to be left tensioned all that time. and it is a whole lot less dependent on shooting skills which that sort of user will have forgotten or never learned.
     
  21. BLB68

    BLB68 Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Messages:
    863
    Location:
    WA
    Good theory until said untrained shooter picks the thing up in a panic, shoves their finger into the trigger guard, thumbs back the hammer and prematurely fires it. :D

    Nothing is idiot proof. If you aren't going to maintain some level of baseline proficiency, guns may not be the best option.
     
  22. Hookeye

    Hookeye Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2015
    Messages:
    1,031
    870 Express Supermag turkey gun.
    23" vent rib, Remchoke (imp cyl in it).
    Used it for dove (shot 50%) many times.
    Synthetic stock.
    Has had detents removed in case I want to run an extended mag.
    I prefer them without such things.

    Have had a few Wingmasters w deer bbls in the past, even an old Police model.

    Find them to feel better with no ext mag.

    Bought my turkey gun used, super cheap, thing runs great. I abuse it and it still looks new.
     
  23. Cooldill

    Cooldill Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2011
    Messages:
    6,182
    Location:
    Kansas
    I was in the shed the other days and dusted off the old oily Model 12 riot gun. Racked the slide a few time, and you know what, I thought to myself. I says, self, this here old oily Model 12 riot gun is a pretty gun. I'll have to shoot it this summer. VERY good defense gun.
     
  24. SIDROCKMAN

    SIDROCKMAN Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2015
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Central Maine
    more on fighting s/g

    I built mine from a mossy 500, it can out sweet!! I found some short 00 buckshot shells (2.0inch) so it loads up great wholes 9 with one in the pipe.Great indoors or any "CQC" sit.
     
  25. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2004
    Messages:
    21,221
    Location:
    AL, NC
    I found some short 00 buckshot shells (2.0inch)

    Make sure it will function with those things if you shoot it fast. You want any unpleasant surprises to happen at the range, not in the hallway.

    And be sure they pattern AND PENETRATE like you want, too.

    More shells in the magazine is no advantage if they won't work...
     

Share This Page