Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

"On guns, lawmakers are accountable" (PA)

Discussion in 'Legal' started by K-Romulus, Oct 17, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. K-Romulus

    K-Romulus Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2003
    Messages:
    1,146
    Location:
    Somewhere in Monkey County, MD
    This nonsense/misinformation (from a law professor, no less) needs immediate response.
    I will be sending a LTE later today. . .

    (Philly Inquirer LTE email: Inquirer.Letters@phillynews.com)

    http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/opinion/local1/15777140.htm

    PA people should already know that all handgun purchases in PA require (1) a background check on the buyer, and (2) registration with the state police.
     
  2. TrybalRage

    TrybalRage Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Messages:
    317
    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    Actually, it is illegal for the state police to keep a registry.

    Not that they care much, that is.
     
  3. vmfrantz

    vmfrantz Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2004
    Messages:
    227
    Location:
    lebanon pa
    The problem with pa is its to blue (democrat and libral). People that commit crimes with weapons in this state hardly do any real time behind bars.:banghead: The things I see here in this state that get slapped on the wrist is sad. The worst part is people with our views get no media attention, and if we do they make it as if we are mentally ill.
     
  4. yhtomit

    yhtomit Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,670
    Location:
    E. Tennessee
    No registration in PA ...

    "PA people should already know that all handgun purchases in PA require (1) a background check on the buyer, and (2) registration with the state police."

    As another reader pointed out, there's no registration with the state police -- at least not that I know of. I would not call myself a PA person, but I am in my 2d year at Temple Law; I don't know this professor, but it sounds like one I might not take for a course on the 2d Amendment :)

    Firearms purchases in PA for me have been fairly smooth; the overarching hand of the state is about as evident here as it is in Texas, Tennessee or Washington in that regard, at least when it comes to retail sales. (Can't speak to the laws on person-to-person transfers for those other states.) If they'd make the rational move and let a sales tax replace the state income tax, I might consider becoming a "PA person" -- it's a nice state, in many ways, even has four good seasons and some snowboard hills.

    Cheers,

    timothy
     
  5. yhtomit

    yhtomit Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,670
    Location:
    E. Tennessee
    My letter to the editor (below)

    Hey, I waited until the 2d graf to invoke the wrath of Godwin ;)

    ---------------------------

    Dear Sirs:

    David Kairy's claim that there are "no questions asked" of gun purchasers in Pennsylvania doesn't match my experience as a purchaser, or state law; the handguns I've purchased in Pennsylvania required me to undergo both national and state background checks, as do all retail firearms sales in the state, and to prove that I was a Pennsylvania resident.

    It's true that Pennsylvania doesn't keep a registry of handguns (or any firearms, for that matter); probably that's at least in part because Pennsylvanians know such registries have been used in recent history to identify gun owners and confiscate their registered weapons -- not just in places like Nazi Germany a few dacades ago, but in New York City into the present day.

    If Kairy would like to see fewer gun deaths in Pennsylvania, perhaps he should clamor for more citizens to apply for and obtain permits for concealed carry; studies show that permit holders are overwhelmingly law abiding, and their presence means that armed criminals can't be as confident of unarmed victims.

    Sincerely,

    Timothy Lord
    JD Candidate, Temple Law
     
  6. lamazza

    lamazza Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,081
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    well said ^^
     
  7. K-Romulus

    K-Romulus Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2003
    Messages:
    1,146
    Location:
    Somewhere in Monkey County, MD
    more info

    The "registration" in PA takes the form of a "Handgun Sales Database" kept by the state police since 1943 for every transfer of ownership (with certain exceptions for transfers between immediate family members). That is why you have to go through a dealer for handgun sales in PA, even private sales.

    PA doesn't seem to have online statutes, but this court's page is the same as my Westlaw printout:

    http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA6111.html


    A gun club sued the state police over this defacto registration because "gun registration" is illegal in PA. The PA Supreme Court said that a "database of sales" was not the same as a"registry" and ruled for the state police. Allegheny County Sportsman's League v. Rendell, 580 Pa. 149 (2004).

     
  8. MartinBrody

    MartinBrody Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Messages:
    334
    Location:
    PA
    Actually I belive a form has to be submitted to the BATF because of the multiple purchase.

    Not true for a handgun.

    This joker is a law professor??? Maybe he should check out the GCA (Gun Control Act) posted on the ATF website.
     
  9. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    3,809
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Double tap
     
  10. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    3,809
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Federal law does not require a background check for non-dealer (face-to-face) handgun sales within a state.
     
  11. TrybalRage

    TrybalRage Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Messages:
    317
    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    My admittedly heated letter:

    Mr. Kairys editorial was so far off base it was almost laughable, and I say almost because it is frightening how many people believe the erroneous information he is spouting. The facts that a) he has a soapbox to yell from, and b) is a law professor are frightening as well, because one would hope that a person in his position would want to get his facts straight.

    He is mistaken on state law, federal law, and his comments regarding "the biggest and most consistent threat to urban safety and public health over the last several decades". I would argue that cars are much, much, deadlier and more frequently involved in injury and death.

    He complains about the 'assault weapon' ban expiring, when no one can really define what an 'assault weapon' actually is. He complains about the number of permit holders in Philadelphia as if they were the ones actually committing crimes with guns... as if a criminal would actually bother with a permit at all!

    He claims that legislatures are not moved by citizen protests, I disagree! My Representative removed himself as a co-sponsor from 2 different gun-control bills that were introduced after I wrote him a scathing email regarding his decisions. Our legislature is listening just fine.

    Mr. Kairys attempts to demonize the NRA for not supporting the ban of 'cop killer' teflon coated bullets, and he fails to do the simplest research to discover why the NRA stood as it did against banning these rounds. Maybe it's because the Teflon doesn't aid a round in penetrating soft body armor. Maybe it's because soemthing as simple as Grandpa's old deer rifle can penetrate police vests, and there was nothing magical about those rounds. Maybe a law professor from Temple shouldn't believe everything he hears on TV. Maybe a professor should (gasp!) think for himself and read up on a topic if he feels so passionate about it.

    Pennsylvania's legislature has listened to it's people, we don't want to start restricting firearm ownership and become a safe haven like Jersey City, New York, Washington DC or Baltimore. Oh wait, that's right, it's more dangerous in cities with stricter gun controls. Weird, huh?

    Dave Hiddemen
    Reading, PA
     
  12. MartinBrody

    MartinBrody Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Messages:
    334
    Location:
    PA
    The author of this nonsense says you can buy as many handguns as you want "no questions asked", well the ATF interprets the Gun Control Act a little differently, this is from the ATF website.

    This joker also claims the PA law prohibiting the sale of handguns between unlicensed individuals is 'obviously unenforceable'.

    This is the PA law according to the NRA web site under gun laws.

    I wonder what makes him think this prevents people from selling handguns illegally any more or less than any other law? I guess when someone in CA, NY or NJ sells a handgun illegally a little bell goes off in the police station telling them about it.

    Please email this person and let them know what you think. I don't know if I can post his email address but you can easily find it by doing a search,
     
  13. MartinBrody

    MartinBrody Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Messages:
    334
    Location:
    PA
    Well PA law does, but that is unenforceable so it doesn't count.
     
  14. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2003
    Messages:
    3,983
    That's from his faculty biography on the web site for Temple University's Beasley School of Law. David Kairys is invested in the anti-gun movement and isn't a disinterested person. It even would be fair to say that Kairys is a Philadelphia lawyer. :) (Sorry, I couldn't resist the opportunity to say that.)
     
  15. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    4,887
    Location:
    Delaware home of tax free shopping
    YHTOMIT

    You live in Philadelphia and go to Temple Law????

    You are unaware the PA has a sales tax?? Its 6%, Philly adds another percent making it 7%. Its been that way for a very long time.:)

    Just so you know
     
  16. K-Romulus

    K-Romulus Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2003
    Messages:
    1,146
    Location:
    Somewhere in Monkey County, MD
    sending out this one

    So far, it seems no responses have been published.

    Edited to paste final version:

    This went out:

     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2006
  17. DKSuddeth

    DKSuddeth Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Messages:
    777
    Location:
    Bedford, TX
    How far we've fallen. A little over 200 years ago, an entirely different set of values was championed in this place. :(
     
  18. Stickjockey

    Stickjockey Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Messages:
    1,902
    Location:
    Happy Valley, Oregon
    Intimating that criminals are doing interstate transfers of handguns without going through a FFL.

    Now correct me if this is wrong, but isn't there a Federal Law that prohibits this?
     
  19. ZeSpectre

    ZeSpectre Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    5,503
    Location:
    Deep in the valley
    My own response sent to Mr. Kairys
    ------------------------------------------

    Mr. Kairys,
    I just read your recent article "On guns, lawmakers are accountable"
    ( http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/opinion/local1/15777140.htm )

    While not in complete agreement with you, I do appreciate your stance and the overall approach you take in your article. However there are a few items that I would like to address.

    1) You state that "For American cities generally, handguns have been the biggest and most consistent threat to urban safety and public health over the last several decades." In a country of (roughly) 3 hundred million people, I would very much like to see references to your supporting data, especially compared to heart disease, automobiles, and air pollution. I simply cannot take this statement at face value.

    2) Another item you mention "But the NRA takes extreme positions that often have little backing - opposing, for example, prohibition of Teflon-coated "cop-killer" bullets that can pierce bullet-proof vests."

    Once again a favored myth rears it's ugly head. The sole purpose of a teflon coated bullet was as a barrel lubricant to reduce wear and tear. Adding a teflon coating does nothing to alter the penetration capability of a bullet and this has been prooven repeatedly in scientific testing.

    Also, teflon coated bullets have, to the best of my knowledge, never been used to kill a law enforcement officer and therefore the "cop killer" tag is a falsehood. (If you can provide me proof that is contrary to this I will change my stance.)

    Finally, yes the NRA (along with the FBI, and BATF by the way) opposed the origional vaguely-worded (and essentially unenforcable) form of the prohibition on "cop killer" bullets because it showed little understanding of the subject. However the NRA was one of the key forces in developing the final, approved, version of the bill (H.R. 3132) which prohibits the sale of ACTUAL armor piercing ammunition (not mythical "cop killer" rounds). I fail to see how that is an extreme position when even Representative Mario Biaggi of NY (who was the origional bill's sponsor) was pleased by the final outcome.

    I respect your position (though I do not share it) but would encourage you to use more care and research in the future so that you make accurate and supported statements when composing your arguments.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2006
  20. yhtomit

    yhtomit Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,670
    Location:
    E. Tennessee
    Master Blaster -- Sure, I know there's a sales tax :)

    "You live in Philadelphia and go to Temple Law????

    You are unaware the PA has a sales tax?? Its 6%, Philly adds another percent making it 7%. Its been that way for a very long time.

    Just so you know"

    Yes, there sure is a sales tax -- and it's not an especially low one, either. But when I said "let a sales tax replace the state income tax," that's just what I meant :)

    I've lived in several states (intentionally -- this was high on the list of criteria) where there's a sales tax, but no income tax, and I like it that way. I'd rather pay (just an example, random numers) a straight 11% sales tax than a cumulative 10% tax split 50-50 between sales tax and income tax.

    Since I'm not making (much) money while in grad school, though, and spending a lot more than I earn, I can lump it until after school, when I will move elsewhere.

    timothy
     
  21. yhtomit

    yhtomit Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,670
    Location:
    E. Tennessee
    My letter made the first cut, at least ...

    I dunno if it will run, but I at least got (and responded to) an emailed response from the paper that my reply to Kairy's opinion piece (above in this thread) is being considered for publication, and I provided the requisite information to let it happen if it's selected.

    (Fingers crossed)

    timothy
     
  22. K-Romulus

    K-Romulus Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2003
    Messages:
    1,146
    Location:
    Somewhere in Monkey County, MD
    congrats!

    http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/15825058.htm

    Score one for the team . . .
     
  23. ZeSpectre

    ZeSpectre Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    5,503
    Location:
    Deep in the valley
    Way to go!
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page