Online "discount" gun dealers

[B J Elliott]

That is exactly one of my pet peeves about some, not all local gunshops. The ones around here seem to have some sort of attitude by their staff members.

 

[tubeshooter]

My mom-and-pop LGS seems to have it worked out well. For commonplace items, he appears to basically just add about 5% to the big-box online price.

This works out to be about the cost of the FFL transfer, more or less. Of course there are exceptions.


Add in that he's a great guy that treats everyone well, and you have a winning combination. He's not hurtin' for business...

 

[Resist Evil]

I would go to a gun store or gun show to:
---Pick up and feel firearms that interest me
---Ask a question, hoping for a straight answer which would be subject to verification elsewhere
---Check out consignment/used items, if any
---A quick check of the shelves for some one thing or another I've had on my mind to get, but needed more things to add to it to make shipping and handling worth ordering online.

A gun store has overhead in order to provide me with a venue in which to do these things. It is unreasonable for me to expect online prices for firearms at a brick and mortar location. It is up to me to judge if the price asked is fair enough for the venue or excessive. I would think that with the proliferation of smart phones, being able to gauge the retail price asked at the venue versus an online price would be nearly instantaneous, thus making a decision simpler .

 

[FourTeeFive]

It's unfortunate that some local gun shops don't provide the service they should, things like answering questions, making recommendations, and pointing customers in the right direction. But not all shops are like this, I know I'm not.

No offense TenRingGuns, but you're not a shop from what I can tell. I keep asking this question in this thread and haven't seen an answer. You have a website, do not have a brick and mortar storefront, and are complaining about internet sales?

I don't get it.

And yes, I'm a potential customer since I live pretty close to you.

 

[CZguy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CZguy
when I ask for their best price on a gun, they both know that it's a cash price and we don't need to quibble over the last five dollars. They both understand that I have cash with me and that a quick sale with a smaller profit is better than having it sit on the shelf for six months.

Not all dealers do this, that why I patronize these two.

But you are quibbiling... the best price I have is the price on the tag. If I wanted to sell it for less, I would have put a lower price on the tag.

Sir, I have no idea how you set your prices, but the dealers that I work with have a price marked on the tag, that is padded to cover the cost of a credit card purchase. If I let them know that I'm paying with cash, then they discount the price appropriately.

So, no I'm not quibbling.

 

[drsfmd]

CZGuy-- cash or credit, same price. No one gets to cheat the sales tax either. You're welcome to buy at our (competitive) prices or look for the gun elsewhere. We obviously negotiate on the value of a trade in, but there's no dickering over our prices... the prices are firm.

 

[35Rem]

Um, pretty sure credit cards charge the seller a fee. Seems like 3% is pretty comon. I think that's what CZ is talking about

 

[cemjr]

Three from LGS, one from manufacture online,one from gunbroker,one from BUDS online, one at estate sale

 

[drsfmd]

I understand what he's talking about. We fold that fee into the cost of doing business, and there's no discount for cash. Besides, it's a violation of the contracts one signs with the credit card companies to offer a cash discount...

 

[WinThePennant]

I understand what he's talking about. We fold that fee into the cost of doing business, and there's no discount for cash. Besides, it's a violation of the contracts one signs with the credit card companies to offer a cash discount...

That's true, but it is a very common thing I've run across as the credit card companies charge more and more.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Besides, it's a violation of the contracts one signs with the credit card companies to offer a cash discount...

You may want to review your merchant agreement. Most of them say you can't charge extra for using a credit card, but you are free to offer a cash discount.

 

[drsfmd]

You may want to review your merchant agreement. Most of them say you can't charge extra for using a credit card, but you are free to offer a cash discount.

Offering a cash discount is the same as charging extra to use a credit card... it may not be a direct violation of the contract to word it as you have suggested, but it's certainly not an ethical position to take.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Offering a cash discount is the same as charging extra to use a credit card... it may not be a direct violation of the contract to word it as you have suggested, but it's certainly not an ethical position to take.

I suppose you can consider it the same, but the FDIC doesn't: "the card issuer may not, by contract or otherwise, prohibit any such seller from offering a discount to a cardholder to induce the cardholder to pay by cash"
http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/rules/6500-500.html#fdic6500167

Neither does VISA: "Retailers Can Offer a Discount for Cash and Check Purchases. Retailers can encourage their customers to use other forms of payment, such as cash and checks, and can discount for PIN debit and cash and checks provided that the offer is made to all respective buyers."
http://usa.visa.com/personal/using_visa/checkout_fees/index.html

American Express: "Merchants may offer discounts or in-kind incentives from their regular prices for payments in cash..."
https://www260.americanexpress.com/.../pdffiles/MerchantPolicyPDFs/US_ RefGuide.pdf

or MasterCard: "A Merchant may provide a discount to its customers for cash payments."
http://www.mastercard.com/us/merchant/pdf/BM-Entire_Manual_public.pdf

Neither do any of the states who have specifically codified that credit card surcharges are not the same as cash discounts.

I guess you could argue that it is ethically the same, but I'm not sure that really holds up to scrutiny.

Personally, I don't care if you offer a cash discount or not, but saying that you can't because of a merchant agreement is just simply not true.

 

[CZguy]

CZGuy-- cash or credit, same price. No one gets to cheat the sales tax either. You're welcome to buy at our (competitive) prices or look for the gun elsewhere. We obviously negotiate on the value of a trade in, but there's no dickering over our prices... the prices are firm.

Interesting business model. I wish you every success.

Unfortunately I wouldn't be interested in patronizing a business that is operated in that manner. I suppose that's why it's called free enterprise.

 

[tarosean]

You're welcome to buy at our (competitive) prices or look for the gun elsewhere.

Isnt this what this whole thread is about???

 

[olafhardtB]

I think we are ignoring a basic human trate. A lot of people love to haggle, hoss trade, wheel and deal etc. That's why they are in business or collect guns. The gun or other collectable is just a trophy or memoir of the deal. To these people the dealing is by for the most important part of the whole thing. I have a friend that owns a gun shop and hired me before we completed our first deal. I had to quit due to health. That's where I go to trade guns. We have traded a lot and I am not sure who gets the best deal. But I don't care, we are friends.

 

[mgmorden]

You may want to review your merchant agreement. Most of them say you can't charge extra for using a credit card, but you are free to offer a cash discount.

Most of them get on very shady ground here though. If you want to list the credit card prices on the site and then say "Pay by cash and get 3% off these prices" then you're absolutely fine.

What most do however is list prices, then tack on some BS language like "all prices reflect a 3% cash discount which cannot be earned using a credit card".

Basically, your standard, everyday advertised price is your baseline. If doing something makes that go down, then that's a discount. If doing something makes it go up, then that's a surcharge.

Regardless of how they word it, I'd say that anyone who is charging you extra on top of the advertised prices is in violation. This is even MORE true on sites like Gunbroker where an auction is being used to determine price. When the buyer is the one setting the price by no definition can an auction price be said to already include a discount. If you want to knock 3% off the auction price then sure, but that's not what they're doing.

Besides - at least when they have direct access to the card (vendors at gun shows and such), they ought to offer to process as a debit card. The merchant fees are SIGNIFICANTLY less on a debit card transaction vs credit - to the point that most places that actually do offer cash discounts treat debit the same as cash.

 

[Sam Cade]

What most do however is list prices, then tack on some BS language like "all prices reflect a 3% cash discount which cannot be earned using a credit card".

This is from Buds fer example

All prices on BudsGunShop.com are cash-discounted prices. Please review the list below to see which payment types are eligible for the discount.
Payment methods accepted by BudsGunShop.Com are

Money Order(3%cash discount applies)
Certified Check (3% cash discount applies)
Personal Checks including online bill payments (3% cash discount applies, orders held for 5 business days for check to clear)
E-Check / ACH (3% cash discount applies, orders held for 5-6 business days to allow funds to clear our bank)
Financing, BudsGunShop.com GE Capital 6 months/ 12 months Account (cash discount does not apply) Click here for details on finacing and to apply for credit.
Visa (cash discount does not apply)
Mastercard (cash discount does not apply)
Discover (cash discount does not apply)
Layaway (Firearms Only): 20% non-refundable deposit; pay balance in 90 days ($300 Minimum Purchase Required).

 

[FourTeeFive]

The worst that can happen if I propose a lower price at a LGS is that they will say no. More often than not, if the offer is reasonable, they say yes. I often watch a product sit on a shelf for six months and then will make an offer. I know they want to to turn the inventory into cash, and I'm going to offer them an amount lower than the number on the sales tag. They can always decline.

On the cash comment, last time I went shopping for a gun safe the salesman quickly said "cash or check and we'll give you a 3% discount". On something of that value I'll be seeing them next time with my checkbook in hand. Otherwise I always carry my debit card so if there is no advantage to me I'll use it to make a purchase.